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Ranking the HoF Players: 11-15

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  • Ranking the HoF Players: 11-15

    Project Summary: To rank the worthiness of the players inducted into the National Baseball Hall of Fame from most worthy to least worthy.

    Election Format: Voters will submit ballots ranking their 10 most worthy remaining Hall of Fame players in order of worthiness. Each first place vote will be worth 10 points, with each successive rank being worth one point less than the previous rank, ending in a tenth place vote being worth 1 point. Players will also receive one additional point for each ballot they are listed on and players must be listed on at least three ballots in order to be elected. The five players with the highest support at the end of each election will be elected in the order of their support. Elections will last approximately seven days.
    - Tiebreakers: In the event of a tie among players at the end of an election, the first tiebreaker will number of first place votes in that election. The second tiebreaker will be total number of ballot appearances in that election. In the event that there remains a tie, there will be a three day run-off by poll. Players that lose in a run-off will slot into the next ranking spot.

    Factors to Consider: As this project focuses on players inducted into the National Baseball Hall of Fame, subjective qualities beyond just statistics should be taken into consideration in determining a player's relative worthiness. In that vein, the voting guidelines that the BBWAA is to follow in actual National Baseball Hall of Fame elections, may be instructive (though not necessarily determinative in this project): "Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played."

    Player Eligibility: Only players that have been elected to the National Baseball Hall of Fame as players are eligible, including Negro League players and 19th Century players. A complete list of individuals that have been inducted as players is available at the National Baseball Hall of Fame's website, and is recreated below along with each player's corresponding BBF Rank as determined by this project:

    1) Babe Ruth
    2) Willie Mays
    3) Ty Cobb
    4) Ted Williams
    5) Hank Aaron
    6) Honus Wagner
    7) Walter Johnson
    8) Lou Gehrig
    9) Cy Young
    10) Stan Musial

    Master List
    [B][U]Player				BBF Rank[/U][/B]
    Hank Aaron			5
    Grover Alexander
    Roberto Alomar
    Cap Anson
    Luis Aparicio
    Luke Appling
    Richie Ashburn
    Earl Averill
    Frank Baker
    Dave Bancroft
    Ernie Banks
    Jake Beckley
    Cool Papa Bell
    Johnny Bench
    Chief Bender
    Yogi Berra
    Bert Blyleven
    Wade Boggs
    Jim Bottomley
    Lou Boudreau
    Roger Bresnahan
    George Brett
    Lou Brock
    Dan Brouthers
    Mordecai Brown
    Ray Brown
    Willard Brown
    Jim Bunning
    Jesse Burkett
    Roy Campanella
    Rod Carew
    Max Carey
    Steve Carlton
    Gary Carter
    Orlando Cepeda
    Frank Chance
    Oscar Charleston
    Jack Chesbro
    Fred Clarke
    John Clarkson
    Roberto Clemente
    Ty Cobb				3
    Mickey Cochrane
    Eddie Collins
    Jimmy Collins
    Earle Combs
    Roger Connor
    Andy Cooper
    Stan Coveleski
    Sam Crawford
    Jo Cronin
    Kiki Cuyler
    Ray Dandridge
    George Davis
    Andre Dawson
    Leon Day
    Dizzy Dean
    Ed Delahanty
    Bill Dickey
    Martin Dihigo
    Joe DiMaggio
    Larry Doby
    Bobby Doerr
    Don Drysdale
    Hugh Duffy
    Dennis Eckersley
    Johnny Evers
    Buck Ewing
    Red Faber
    Bob Feller
    Rick Ferrell
    Rollie Fingers
    Carlton Fisk
    Elmer Flick
    Whitey Ford
    Bill Foster
    Nellie Fox
    Jimmie Foxx
    Frankie Frisch
    Pud Galvin
    Lou Gehrig			8
    Charlie Gehringer
    Bob Gibson
    Josh Gibson
    Lefty Gomez
    Joe Gordon
    Goose Goslin
    Rich Gossage
    Frank Grant
    Hank Greenberg
    Burleigh Grimes
    Lefty Grove
    Tony Gwynn
    Chick Hafey
    Jesse Haines
    Billy Hamilton
    Gabby Hartnett
    Harry Heilmann
    Rickey Henderson
    Billy Herman
    Pete Hill
    Harry Hooper
    Rogers Hornsby
    Waite Hoyt
    Carl Hubbell
    Catfish Hunter
    Monte Irvin
    Reggie Jackson
    Travis Jackson
    Ferguson Jenkins
    Hugh Jennings
    Judy Johnson
    Walter Johnson			7
    Addie Joss
    Al Kaline
    Tim Keefe
    Willie Keeler
    George Kell
    Joe Kelley
    George Kelly
    King Kelly
    Harmon Killebrew
    Ralph Kiner
    Chuck Klein
    Sandy Koufax
    Nap Lajoie
    Tony Lazzeri
    Bob Lemon
    Buck Leonard
    Freddie Lindstrom
    Pop Lloyd
    Ernie Lombard
    Ted Lyons
    Biz Mackey
    Mickey Mantle
    Heinie Manush
    Rabbit Maranville
    Juan Marichal
    Rube Marquard
    Eddie Mathews
    Christy Mathewson
    Willie Mays			2
    Bill Mazeroski
    Tommy McCarthy
    Willie McCovey
    Joe McGinnity
    Bid McPhee
    Joe Medwick
    Jose Mendez
    Johnny Mize
    Paul Molitor
    Joe Morgan
    Eddie Murray
    Stan Musial			10
    Hal Newhouser
    Kid Nichols
    Phil Niekro
    Jim O’Rourke
    Mel Ott
    Satchel Paige
    Jim Palmer
    Herb Pennock
    Tony Perez
    Gaylord Perry
    Eddie Plank
    Kirby Puckett
    Charles Radbourn
    Pee Wee Reese
    Jim Rice
    Sam Rice
    Cal Ripken
    Eppa Rixey
    Phil Rizzuto
    Robin Roberts
    Brooks Robinson
    Frank Robinson
    Jackie Robinson
    Bullet Rogan
    Edd Roush
    Red Ruffing
    Amos Rusie
    Babe Ruth			1
    Nolan Ryan
    Ryne Sandberg
    Louis Santop
    Ray Schalk
    Mike Schmidt
    Red Schoendienst
    Tom Seaver
    Joe Sewell
    Al Simmons
    George Sisler
    Enos Slaughter
    Hilton Smith
    Ozzie Smith
    Duke Snider
    Warren Spahn
    Tris Speaker
    Willie Stargell
    Turkey Stearnes
    Bruce Sutter
    Mule Suttles
    Don Sutton
    Ben Taylor
    Bill Terry
    Sam Thompson
    Joe Tinker
    Cristobal Torriente
    Pie Traynor
    Dazzy Vance
    Arky Vaughan
    Rube Waddell
    Honus Wagner			6
    Bobby Wallace
    Ed Walsh
    Lloyd Waner
    Paul Waner
    John Ward
    Mickey Welch
    Willie Wells
    Zack Wheat
    Hoyt Wilhelm
    Billy Williams
    Joe Williams
    Ted Williams			4
    Vic Willis
    Hack Wilson
    Jud Wilson
    Dave Winfield
    Early Wynn
    Carl Yastrzemski
    Cy Young			9
    Ross Youngs
    Robin Yount
    Links to Previous Elections
    Election 1-5
    Election 6-10
    Last edited by DoubleX; 08-23-2011, 12:44 PM.

  • #2
    1) Jackie Robinson - 10 points
    2) Mickey Mantle - 9 points
    3) Roberto Clemente - 8 points
    4) Joe DiMaggio - 7 points
    5) Cap Anson - 6 points
    6) Satchel Paige - 5 points
    7) Rogers Hornsby - 4 points
    8) Tris Speaker - 3 points
    9) Frank Robinson - 2 points
    10) Josh Gibson - 1 point


    • #3
      1) Mantle
      2) J. Robinson
      3) Grove
      4) E. Collins
      5) Anson
      6) F. Robinson
      7) Joe DiMaggio
      8) Pete Alexander
      9) Satchel Paige
      10) Mike Schimdt
      "I will calmly wait for my induction to the Baseball Hall of Fame."
      - Sammy Sosa

      "Get a comfy chair, Sammy, cause its gonna be a long wait."
      - Craig Ashley (AKA Windy City Fan)


      • #4
        1. Jackie Robinson - 10
        2. Satchel Paige - 9
        3. Speaker - 8
        4. Hornsby - 7
        5. Mathewson - 6
        6. Mantle - 5
        7. DiMaggio - 4
        8. Clemente - 3
        9. Anson - 2
        10. Josh Gibson - 1

        I think, Seaver, Alexander, Spahn, F. Rob, E. Collins, Lajoie might make the next grouping maybe even Koufax
        Last edited by PVNICK; 08-23-2011, 08:39 AM. Reason: put Alexander in my coming attractions list (so next round I am less likely to forget)


        • #5
          1. Josh Gibson
          2. Satchel Paige
          3. Mickey Mantle
          4. Tom Seaver
          5. Rogers Hornsby
          6. Mike Schmidt
          7. Tris Speaker
          8. Joe DiMaggio
          9. Oscar Charleston
          10. Lefty Grove

          Since this is a project about baseball and not about the civil rights movement, I'm not prepared to vote for Jackie Robinson yet and think that those who are are weighing factors not tied to baseball too heavily.


          • #6
            Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post
            Since this is a project about baseball and not about the civil rights movement, I'm not prepared to vote for Jackie Robinson yet and think that those who are are weighing factors not tied to baseball too heavily.
            Fair enough, and for whatever reason, your comment has resonated with me more than any of the others so far that believe it's premature to vote for Robinson as this stage. Perhaps it was in your succinct juxtaposition between baseball and civil rights. Hasn't changed my position though, as I believe that Robinson's significance in the civil rights movement is directly tied to his significance in baseball and that he is a uniquely transcendant figure as a result. Robinson is so socially significant because of his place in baseball history. MLB didn't retire Ruth's number, it didn't retire Mays' number, it didn't retire Aaron's number, but it retired Robinson's number and only his number, and that speaks volumes to me about how highly he is generally regarded in the game's histoy.

            Ruth is almost certainly the biggest star in baseball's history because of what he did as a player, but are people discounting his subjective stardom because it goes beyond what he did on the field? Maybe people are, but in general, Ruth was such a big star because he was a baseball player. In that same vein, Robinson is so socially significant because he was a baseball player, so why would we reward Ruth for his subjective stardom directly tied to baseball but deny Robinson's historical significance directly tied to baseball? In both cases it's a large amount of "fame" derived from baseball, just of somewhat different varieties. (Note: I recognize that my argument has a weak spot in that with or without "fame", Ruth would almost certainly have been the top choice here because of his play, just wanted to point out that I think many recognize Ruth's subjective stardom tied playing baseball, and that Robinson too has a great deal of subjective importance tied to playing baseball).

            Also, going forward, for those who may worry about me as the project's originator expressing my opinion too often, I don't anticipate having as strong feelings about any other player as I do about Robinson (maybe Clemente depending on how far we get without electing him, but even so, my feelings aren't as strong), and in general, I expect that as we go along voting will get pretty muddled as it will be hard for all voters separate players until we get to the lower end. Basically, I can't see quibbling too much if for example, someone has Earl Averill ranked 10 spots away from where I put him because at that point, I'm not sure the difference will be that great.


            • #7
              I've got a feeling Robinson will be elected this time around, so don't worry.

              1. Josh Gibson (10)
              2. Jackie Robinson (9)
              3. Lefty Grove (8)
              4. Pete Alexander (7)
              5. Eddie Collins (6)
              6. Tris Speaker (5)
              7. Tom Seaver (4)
              8. Rickey Henderson (3)
              9. Christy Mathewson (2)
              10. Mickey Mantle (1)


              • #8
                1. Rogers Hornsby
                2. Tom Seaver
                3. Mickey Mantle
                4. Johnny Bench
                5. Joe DiMaggio
                6. Tris Speaker
                7. Christy Matthewson
                8. Lefty Grove
                9. Frank Robinson
                10. Mike Schmidt


                • #9
                  This is my new list given my new approach that would fit more inline with the spirit of things. Some adjustments made, but not huge ones.

                  1. Mickey Mantle
                  2. Rogers Hornsby
                  3. Frank Robinson
                  4. Mike Schmidt
                  5. Jimmie Foxx
                  6. Eddie Collins
                  7. Christy Mathewson
                  8. Tris Speaker
                  9. Cap Anson
                  10. Pop Lloyd


                  • #10
                    1. Frank Robinson
                    2. Mickey Mantle
                    3. Jackie Robinson
                    4. Josh Gibson
                    5. Rogers Hornsby
                    6. Tris Speaker
                    7. Satchel Paige
                    8. Joe DiMaggio
                    9. Pete Alexander
                    10. Cap Anson


                    • #11
                      I've never been one to give a lot of subjective credit, because I don't know what it's worth and neither do you. I do try to rank players by the HOF's official criteria, which doesn't consider historical significance, his stature beyond his play and things like that.

                      1 Mickey Mantle
                      2 Oscar Charleston
                      3 Tris Speaker
                      4 Eddie Collins
                      5 Rogers Hornsby
                      6 Josh Gibson
                      7 Lefty Grove
                      8 Mike Schmidt
                      9 Joe Morgan
                      10 Nap Lajoie

                      "The black Ty Cobb" is the player getting sorely overlooked; from the BR Bullpen:

                      "Oscar Charleston is considered by many Negro Leagues experts to have been the greatest ballplayer of the Negro Leagues. Bill James ranked him as fourth-greatest player of all time in his New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract."
                      Last edited by Freakshow; 08-23-2011, 11:13 AM.
                      Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

                      Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.


                      • #12
                        1) Mickey Mantle
                        2) Oscar Charleston
                        3) Joe Dimaggio
                        4) Josh Gibson
                        5) Lefty Grove
                        6) Satchel Paige
                        7) Jackie Robinson
                        8) Tris Speaker
                        9) Rogers Hornsby
                        10) Grover Cleveland Alexander


                        • #13
                          MY VOTES:

                          1 - Mickey Mantle
                          2 - Tris Speaker
                          3 - Satchell Paige
                          4 - Eddie Collins
                          5 - Josh Gibson
                          6 - Oscar Charleston
                          7 - Joe DiMaggio
                          8 - Jackie Robinson
                          9 - Rickey Henderson
                          10 - Cap Anson


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DoubleX View Post
                            1) Jackie Robinson - 10 points
                            2) Mickey Mantle - 9 points
                            3) Roberto Clemente - 8 points
                            4) Joe DiMaggio - 7 points
                            5) Cap Anson - 6 points
                            6) Satchel Paige - 5 points
                            7) Rogers Hornsby - 4 points
                            8) Tris Speaker - 3 points
                            9) Frank Robinson - 2 points
                            10) Josh Gibson - 1 point
                            I understand Jackie and I have him on my ballot now, but Clemente is not at the level of the other people on your ballot. Not even close. His statue being one of three that you see when you enter the hall is nothing other than PC BS. Hispanics started a movement to get MLB to retire his number from all teams like with Jackie. The fact is that he was in no way that important of a figure during his playing days and only real became an icon after his death. What's next, the Japanese people demand a statue at Cooperstown for Suzuki after he gets in?
                            Last edited by SavoyBG; 08-23-2011, 04:14 PM.


                            • #15
                              1. J. Robinson
                              2. Mantle
                              3. J. Gibson
                              4. Hornsby
                              5. Speaker
                              6. Charleston
                              7. J. DiMaggio
                              8. E. Collins
                              9. J. Williams
                              10. Morgan
                              Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                              Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                              A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.


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