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Ranking the HoF Players: 16-20

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  • Ranking the HoF Players: 16-20

    Project Summary: To rank the worthiness of the players inducted into the National Baseball Hall of Fame from most worthy to least worthy.

    Election Format: Voters will submit ballots ranking their 10 most worthy remaining Hall of Fame players in order of worthiness. Each first place vote will be worth 10 points, with each successive rank being worth one point less than the previous rank, ending in a tenth place vote being worth 1 point. Players will also receive one additional point for each ballot they are listed on and players must be listed on at least three ballots in order to be elected. The five players with the highest support at the end of each election will be elected in the order of their support. Elections will last approximately seven days.
    - Tiebreakers: In the event of a tie among players at the end of an election, the first tiebreaker will number of first place votes in that election. The second tiebreaker will be total number of ballot appearances in that election. In the event that there remains a tie, there will be a three day run-off by poll. Players that lose in a run-off will slot into the next ranking spot.

    Factors to Consider: As this project focuses on players inducted into the National Baseball Hall of Fame, subjective qualities beyond just statistics should be taken into consideration in determining a player's relative worthiness. In that vein, the voting guidelines that the BBWAA is to follow in actual National Baseball Hall of Fame elections, may be instructive (though not necessarily determinative in this project): "Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played."

    Player Eligibility: Only players that have been elected to the National Baseball Hall of Fame as players are eligible, including Negro League players and 19th Century players. A complete list of individuals that have been inducted as players is available at the National Baseball Hall of Fame's website, and is recreated below along with each player's corresponding BBF Rank as determined by this project:

    Results
    1) Babe Ruth
    2) Willie Mays
    3) Ty Cobb
    4) Ted Williams
    5) Hank Aaron
    6) Honus Wagner
    7) Walter Johnson
    8) Lou Gehrig
    9) Cy Young
    10) Stan Musial
    11) Mickey Mantle
    12) Rogers Hornsby
    13) Jackie Robinson
    14) Tris Speaker
    15) Josh Gibson

    Master List
    Code:
    Player				BBF Rank
    Hank Aaron			5
    Grover Alexander
    Roberto Alomar
    Cap Anson
    Luis Aparicio
    Luke Appling
    Richie Ashburn
    Earl Averill
    Frank Baker
    Dave Bancroft
    Ernie Banks
    Jake Beckley
    Cool Papa Bell
    Johnny Bench
    Chief Bender
    Yogi Berra
    Bert Blyleven
    Wade Boggs
    Jim Bottomley
    Lou Boudreau
    Roger Bresnahan
    George Brett
    Lou Brock
    Dan Brouthers
    Mordecai Brown
    Ray Brown
    Willard Brown
    Jim Bunning
    Jesse Burkett
    Roy Campanella
    Rod Carew
    Max Carey
    Steve Carlton
    Gary Carter
    Orlando Cepeda
    Frank Chance
    Oscar Charleston
    Jack Chesbro
    Fred Clarke
    John Clarkson
    Roberto Clemente
    Ty Cobb				3
    Mickey Cochrane
    Eddie Collins
    Jimmy Collins
    Earle Combs
    Roger Connor
    Andy Cooper
    Stan Coveleski
    Sam Crawford
    Jo Cronin
    Kiki Cuyler
    Ray Dandridge
    George Davis
    Andre Dawson
    Leon Day
    Dizzy Dean
    Ed Delahanty
    Bill Dickey
    Martin Dihigo
    Joe DiMaggio
    Larry Doby
    Bobby Doerr
    Don Drysdale
    Hugh Duffy
    Dennis Eckersley
    Johnny Evers
    Buck Ewing
    Red Faber
    Bob Feller
    Rick Ferrell
    Rollie Fingers
    Carlton Fisk
    Elmer Flick
    Whitey Ford
    Bill Foster
    Nellie Fox
    Jimmie Foxx
    Frankie Frisch
    Pud Galvin
    Lou Gehrig			8
    Charlie Gehringer
    Bob Gibson
    Josh Gibson			15
    Lefty Gomez
    Joe Gordon
    Goose Goslin
    Rich Gossage
    Frank Grant
    Hank Greenberg
    Burleigh Grimes
    Lefty Grove
    Tony Gwynn
    Chick Hafey
    Jesse Haines
    Billy Hamilton
    Gabby Hartnett
    Harry Heilmann
    Rickey Henderson
    Billy Herman
    Pete Hill
    Harry Hooper
    Rogers Hornsby			12
    Waite Hoyt
    Carl Hubbell
    Catfish Hunter
    Monte Irvin
    Reggie Jackson
    Travis Jackson
    Ferguson Jenkins
    Hugh Jennings
    Judy Johnson
    Walter Johnson			7
    Addie Joss
    Al Kaline
    Tim Keefe
    Willie Keeler
    George Kell
    Joe Kelley
    George Kelly
    King Kelly
    Harmon Killebrew
    Ralph Kiner
    Chuck Klein
    Sandy Koufax
    Nap Lajoie
    Tony Lazzeri
    Bob Lemon
    Buck Leonard
    Freddie Lindstrom
    Pop Lloyd
    Ernie Lombard
    Ted Lyons
    Biz Mackey
    Mickey Mantle			11
    Heinie Manush
    Rabbit Maranville
    Juan Marichal
    Rube Marquard
    Eddie Mathews
    Christy Mathewson
    Willie Mays			2
    Bill Mazeroski
    Tommy McCarthy
    Willie McCovey
    Joe McGinnity
    Bid McPhee
    Joe Medwick
    Jose Mendez
    Johnny Mize
    Paul Molitor
    Joe Morgan
    Eddie Murray
    Stan Musial			10
    Hal Newhouser
    Kid Nichols
    Phil Niekro
    Jim O’Rourke
    Mel Ott
    Satchel Paige
    Jim Palmer
    Herb Pennock
    Tony Perez
    Gaylord Perry
    Eddie Plank
    Kirby Puckett
    Charles Radbourn
    Pee Wee Reese
    Jim Rice
    Sam Rice
    Cal Ripken
    Eppa Rixey
    Phil Rizzuto
    Robin Roberts
    Brooks Robinson
    Frank Robinson
    Jackie Robinson			13
    Bullet Rogan
    Edd Roush
    Red Ruffing
    Amos Rusie
    Babe Ruth			1
    Nolan Ryan
    Ryne Sandberg
    Louis Santop
    Ray Schalk
    Mike Schmidt
    Red Schoendienst
    Tom Seaver
    Joe Sewell
    Al Simmons
    George Sisler
    Enos Slaughter
    Hilton Smith
    Ozzie Smith
    Duke Snider
    Warren Spahn
    Tris Speaker			14
    Willie Stargell
    Turkey Stearnes
    Bruce Sutter
    Mule Suttles
    Don Sutton
    Ben Taylor
    Bill Terry
    Sam Thompson
    Joe Tinker
    Cristobal Torriente
    Pie Traynor
    Dazzy Vance
    Arky Vaughan
    Rube Waddell
    Honus Wagner			6
    Bobby Wallace
    Ed Walsh
    Lloyd Waner
    Paul Waner
    John Ward
    Mickey Welch
    Willie Wells
    Zack Wheat
    Hoyt Wilhelm
    Billy Williams
    Joe Williams
    Ted Williams			4
    Vic Willis
    Hack Wilson
    Jud Wilson
    Dave Winfield
    Early Wynn
    Carl Yastrzemski
    Cy Young			9
    Ross Youngs
    Robin Yount
    Links to Previous Elections
    Election 1-5
    Election 6-10
    Election 11-15
    Last edited by DoubleX; 08-31-2011, 10:23 AM.

  • #2
    1) Joe Dimaggio - 10 points
    2) Frank Robinson - 9 points - Decided he deserves to be moved way up.
    3) Roberto Clemente - 8 points
    4) Cap Anson - 7 points
    5) Lefty Grove - 6 points
    6) Satchel Paige - 5 points
    7) Eddie Collins - 4 points
    8) Pete Alexander - 3 points
    9) Tom Seaver - 2 points
    10) Christy Mathewson - 1 point

    Comment


    • #3
      1) Christy Mathewson (10)...he'll get there eventually!
      2) Grover Cleveland Alexander (9)
      3) Tom Seaver (8)
      4) Cap Anson (7)
      5) Eddie Collins (6)
      6) Rickey Henderson (5)
      7) Mike Schmidt (4)
      8) Satchel Paige (3)
      9) Lefty Grove (2)
      10) Jimmie Foxx (1)

      Comment


      • #4
        1. Satchel Paige - 10
        2. Mathewson - 9
        3. DiMaggio - 8
        4. Clemente - 7
        5. Anson - 6
        6. Frank Robinson - 5
        7. Seaver - 4
        8. Lajoie - 3
        9. Alexander - 2
        10. Grove - 1

        Spahn, Eddie Collins and Foxx should head up the next grouping Koufax, Bench, Morgan, Schmidt might fit in

        Comment


        • #5
          1. Frank Robinson
          2. Mike Schmidt
          3. Jimmie Foxx
          4. Eddie Collins
          5. Christy Mathewson
          6. Cap Anson
          7. Pop Lloyd
          8. Mel Ott
          9. Napoleon Lajoie
          10. Joe DiMaggio

          Comment


          • #6
            duplicate post
            Last edited by dgarza; 08-31-2011, 08:09 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              1. Jimmie Foxx*
              2. Mel Ott*
              3. Pete Alexander*
              4. Christy Mathewson*
              5. Frank Robinson*
              6. Nap Lajoie*
              7. Mike Schmidt*
              8. Tom Seaver*
              9. Cap Anson*
              10. Satchel Paige
              "I am not too serious about anything. I believe you have to enjoy yourself to get the most out of your ability."-
              George Brett

              Comment


              • #8
                I am going to have to sit out the rest of these polls. A poll is a poll with a set of consitent rules. The rules qualify the results, that is to say rules that allow manipulative votes give results that will be naturally qualified by the fact that they can be manipulated within the rules. Manipulating the outcome OUTSIDE of the rules by changing them invalidates the poll.
                Last edited by brett; 08-31-2011, 08:59 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  1. Satchel Paige
                  2. Eddie Collins
                  3. Pete Alexander
                  4. Joe Dimaggio
                  5. Oscar Charleston
                  6. Frank Robinson
                  7. Cap Anson
                  8. Christy Mathewson
                  9. Warren Spahn
                  10. Nap Lajoie

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    1. Tom Seaver
                    2. Johnny Bench
                    3. Christy Mathewson
                    4. Joe DiMaggio
                    5. Eddie Collins
                    6. Mike Schmidt
                    7. Warren Spahn
                    8. Lefty Grove
                    9. Frank Robinson
                    10. Grover Cleveland Alexander

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by brett View Post
                      I am going to have to sit out the rest of these polls. A poll is a poll with a set of consitent rules. The rules qualify the results, that is to say rules that allow manipulative votes give results that will be naturally qualified by the fact that they can be manipulated within the rules. Manipulating the outcome OUTSIDE of the rules by changing them invalidates the poll.
                      I assume you're referring to the sockeye incident. The election rules clearly state: "Voters will submit ballots ranking their 10 most worthy remaining Hall of Fame players in order of worthiness." As illustrated in the detailed rundown of sockeye's ballots I provided in the last thread, it's pretty clear that sockeye is not ranking in "order of worthiness." Normally, I would give voters the benefit of the doubt as I am extremely loathe to exclude participants, but sockeye has demonstrated the same type of conduct in other projects on these boards, and as a result, my tolerance with him individually has become pretty low. His voting is incongruous with the stated rules and aims of this project, and if tolerated, it is that kind of voting that can have a far greater impact by manipulating the results away from the otherwise natural consensus of the electorate (and indeed did manipulate the outcome of the second election and would have the third). By removing him and sending a message that votes are to be based on "order of worthiness" I believe we better protect the integrity fo the outcomes.

                      I would ask you to reconsider your abstention as your participation so far has been one of the guiding forces of this project by stirring some very good and thoughtful discussion.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by DoubleX View Post
                        it's pretty clear that sockeye is not ranking in "order of worthiness."
                        There in-lies the problem. YOU are trying to dictate to other voters what is "worthy" That is open to interpretation. Last time I checked we live in America (not China), it's still a free country. Let the voters vote for who they like. Stop trying to force them to vote for who you want them to vote for. Cast your ballot and let other people cast theirs as they see fit. That is the only way you'll ever be able to achieve realistic and accurate results from the project.
                        My dream ballpark dimensions
                        LF: 388 Feet...Height 37 Feet...LCF: 455 Feet...CF: 542 Feet...Height 35 Feet
                        RCF: 471 Feet...RF: 400 Feet...Height 60 Feet
                        Location....San Diego

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sockeye View Post
                          There in-lies the problem. YOU are trying to dictate to other voters what is "worthy" That is open to interpretation. Last time I checked we live in America (not China), it's still a free country. Let the voters vote for who they like. Stop trying to force them to vote for who you want them to vote for. Cast your ballot and let other people cast theirs as they see fit. That is the only way you'll ever be able to achieve realistic and accurate results from the project.
                          Sockeye, this will be the last post I'll make to you. The problem here is two-fold:

                          1) You have displayed in multiple previous projects run by different members here, repeatedly questionable conduct that greatly injures your credibility when the circumstantial evidence strongly points to questionable conduct in yet another project. And that brings me to...

                          2) As I laid out in detail, there are a lot of funny coincidences about your voting trends in this project that easily call into question whether you are honestly voting in order of worthiness. I don't know how else you explain how the carry over players in your ballot reshuffle each election, with the ordering seeming to tie very much into the ultimate results. Once or twice may have been a coincidence, but by the third election, a decided pattern was emerging in how you were voting that was not tied to worthiness but by how you wanted to see the outcome manipulated at the last moment based on the results to that point.

                          Sure, I have my own opinions about how the order should be here, same as any other participant, but at the end of day, I objectively count the ballots as submitted. If someone votes for George Kelly at this point, I'll certainly raise an eyebrow and perhaps question the reasoning behind that vote (and I expect others would as well), but at the end of the project, if George Kelly's name is still listed on a ballot, he will be included in the final tally.

                          The one exception to all this, however, is really just you. As stated above, you've given cause in multiple instances in the past for people to question your conduct, and you've displayed similar conduct in this project. I can think of no other member that I have the same issues with or who I wouldn't afford the benefit of the doubt. Essentially, I have no reason to doubt any one else, but I (and others, as has been mentioned), have reason to doubt you. You can assail me all you want, but it might be worth pausing to consider why you keep getting singled out in projects like this.

                          With that, I'm done posting to you.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            1 Oscar Charleston
                            2 Eddie Collins
                            3 Lefty Grove
                            4 Mike Schmidt
                            5 Joe Morgan
                            6 Nap Lajoie
                            7 Frank Robinson
                            8 Pete Alexander
                            9 Mel Ott
                            10 Pop Lloyd
                            Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

                            Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              1. Oscar Charleston
                              2. Eddie Collins
                              3. Lefty Grove
                              4. Pete Alexander
                              5. Mike Schmidt
                              6. Joe Williams
                              7. Frank Robinson
                              8. Tom Seaver
                              9. Joe DiMaggio
                              10. Nap Lajoie
                              "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                              "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                              "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                              "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

                              Comment

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