Ranking the HoF Players: 42-45

[DoubleX]

This election is over with the results below - keep in mind that we elected only four players this time as we elected six in the last election due to a tie for the final spot:

1) Bob Gibson - 94 (83 points, 12 votes; 1 first place)
2) Joe Williams - 92 (81 points, 11 votes; 4 first place)
3) Carl Yastrzemski - 76 (62 points, 14 votes)
4) Hank Greenberg - 74 (65 points, 9 votes; 2 first place)

5) Dan Brouthers - 59 (49 points, 10 votes; 1 first place)
6) Ed Delahanty - 55 (47 points, 8 votes; 1 first place)
7) Steve Carlton - 49 (39 points, 10 votes)
8) Sandy Koufax - 49 (42 points, 7 votes; 1 first place)
9) Al Kaline - 39 (32 votes, 7 votes)
10) John Ward - 39 (35 points, 4 votes; 2 first place)
11) Johnny Mize - 36 (30 points, 6 votes)
12) Turkey Stearnes - 34 (29 points, 5 votes)
13) Wade Boggs - 32 (26 points, 6 votes)
t14) Reggie Jackson - 31 (26 points, 5 votes)
t14) Charlie Gehringer - 31 (26 points, 5 votes)
16) Arky Vaughan - 31 (28 points, 3 votes; 1 first place)
t17) Mickey Cochrane - 18 (15 points, 3 votes)
t17) Roger Connor - 18 (15 points, 3 votes)
t19) King Kelly - 16 (13 votes, 3 points)
t19) Tony Gwynn - 16 (13 votes, 3 points)
21) Eddie Murray - 12 (10 points, 2 votes)
22) John Clarkson - 11 (10 points, 1 vote; 1 first place)
23) Roy Campanella - 10 (8 points, 2 votes)
24) Jesse Burkett - 10 (9 points, 1 vote)
25) Nolan Ryan - 7 (6 points, 1 vote)
26) Robin Yount - 6 (4 points, 2 votes)
27) Bullet Rogan - 6 (5 points, 1 vote)
t28) Martin Dihigo - 5 (4 points, 1 vote)
t28) Juan Marichal - 5 (4 points, 1 vote)
t30) Frank Baker - 3 (2 points, 1 vote)
t30) Sam Crawford - 3 (2 points, 1 vote)
t32) Willie McCovey - 2 (1 point, 1 vote)
t32) Willie Stargell - 2 (1 point, 1 vote)
t32) Paul Waner - 2 (1 point, 1 vote)

[Freakshow]

1 Dan Brouthers
2 Arky Vaughan
3 Ed Delahanty
4 Charlie Gehringer
5 Reggie Jackson
6 Steve Carlton
7 Joe Williams
8 Bob Gibson
9 Carl Yastrzemski
10 Wade Boggs

[Freakshow]

"WAR is not the only stat we look at."

- WAR fanatics

Nice straw man.

[DoubleX]

Bumping up with two days left.

[DoubleX]

Here's a look at those top 7 LFers in Freakshow's list when measured by WAR for seasons in which the player played more often in LF than anywhere else:

1) Barry Bonds - 168.9 (1987-2007)
2) Ted Williams - 118.5 (1940-1942, 1946-1960)
3) Rickey Henderson - 92.7 (1979-1984, 1988-2003)
4) Carl Yastrzemski - 58.9 (1961-1963, 1965-1969, 1971-1972, 1977-1978)
5) Babe Ruth - 48.1 (1918-1919, 1921-1922, 1926, 1935)
6) Stan Musial - 31.2 (1942, 1951, 1953, 1960-1963)
7) Frank Robinson - 21.6 (1956-1958, 1963)

Now obviously this is somewhat misleading in that several of these players would move around within a season and have several other seasons where they would play lots of games in LF (Musial and Yastrzemski in particular), though still, if the player is playing more games at other positions within a season that player can't really be defined as a LFer for that season (plus, it would be too difficult to break down the in-season WAR by position). Plus, this just shows that numbers can be easily played with to make a variety of points.

[Cowtipper]

Mmm. Most WAR, 800+ G in LF

Rk             Player WAR/pos OPS+    PA From   To    G
1           Babe Ruth   172.0  206 10617 1914 1935 2503 H
2         Barry Bonds   171.8  181 12606 1986 2007 2986
3         Stan Musial   127.8  159 12712 1941 1963 3026 H
4        Ted Williams   125.3  190  9791 1939 1960 2292 H
5    Rickey Henderson   113.1  127 13346 1979 2003 3081 H
6      Frank Robinson   107.4  154 11743 1956 1976 2808 H
7    Carl Yastrzemski    88.7  129 13991 1961 1983 3308 H
8        Ed Delahanty    74.7  152  8400 1888 1903 1837 H
9         Fred Clarke    73.4  132  9838 1894 1915 2246 H
10      Jesse Burkett    68.0  140  9620 1890 1905 2067 H
11      Manny Ramirez    67.2  154  9774 1993 2011 2302
12         Tim Raines    64.6  123 10359 1979 2002 2502
13         Al Simmons    63.6  132  9515 1924 1944 2215 H
14       Goose Goslin    63.0  128  9822 1921 1938 2287 H
15       Sherry Magee    59.1  136  8546 1904 1919 2087
16         Zack Wheat    57.8  129  9996 1909 1927 2410 H
17    Willie Stargell    57.5  147  9026 1962 1982 2360 H
18     Billy Williams    57.2  133 10519 1959 1976 2488 H
19        Joe Medwick    55.8  134  8142 1932 1948 1984 H
20         Joe Kelley    55.5  133  8139 1891 1908 1853 H

"WAR is not the only stat we look at."

- WAR fanatics

[hairmetalfreek]

1. Smokey Joe Williams
2. Reggie Jackson
3. Sandy Koufax
4. Hank Greenberg
5. Bob Gibson
6. Johnny Mize
7. Steve Carlton
8. Turkey Stearns
9. King Kelly
10. Carl Yastrzemski

[jjpm74]

So you don't find the list to be useful? I'd say you're feeling listless.:joking::clowning:

I find it very useful. It's just amusing that you are manipulating statistics to point out what you perceive as a logical flaw in someone's justification that is off by a whopping 1 person. I'm assuming you took intro to stats and are being facetious, Dan.

[Freakshow]

All your list does is prove that you are very good at using a database to manipulate statistics.

So you don't find the list to be useful? I'd say you're feeling listless.:joking::clowning:

[jjpm74]

I posted a list of players that, to me, was relevant to the comment made by The Dude, which made the dubious assertion that Yaz was "Considered the best LF after Musial and Williams". I believe that my list disproves that simple assertion. YMMV.

All your list does is prove that you are very good at using a database to manipulate statistics.

[DoubleX]

3) Mathews, Eddie

Mathews was elected in the last election. Please replace. Thanks.

[DoubleX]

I posted a list of players that, to me, was relevant to the comment made by The Dude, which made the dubious assertion that Yaz was "Considered the best LF after Musial and Williams". I believe that my list disproves that simple assertion. YMMV.

I think the list would have been more telling if it showed only the WAR accumulated while playing LF (though that may be hard to do, unless you count just by primary seasons).

I do agree though that Henderson is a notable omission from his original statement (Bonds would be too if eligible).

[Freakshow]

Isn't that what you did by picking an arbitrary cutoff of 800 games in LF but using total career WAR?

I posted a list of players that, to me, was relevant to the comment made by The Dude, which made the dubious assertion that Yaz was "Considered the best LF after Musial and Williams". I believe that my list disproves that simple assertion. YMMV.

[DoubleX]

Well, sure, if you take his statement and change it to what YOU want it to mean, then that would be the case.

Isn't that what you did by picking an arbitrary cutoff of 800 games in LF but using total career WAR?

[The Dude]

Eh, his statement wasn't that off the mark. Of your WAR list, Ruth and Robinson are generally regarded as RFers, while Bonds isn't yet eligible for the Hall of Fame. That leaves just Musial, Williams, and Henderson ahead of Yastrzemski in LF, and thus Henderson is the only notable omission from his statement.

Well, sure, if you take his statement and change it to what YOU want it to mean, then that would be the case.

DoubleX read into my statement correctly. Are Robinson and Ruth not generally excepted as Right Fielders? I mean, they are officially listed by the HoF as Right Fielders. If we're assigning multiple positions to players, I would have voted for Paul Molitor ages ago for having a 122 OPS+ with 197+ games at 4 positions.

As for Bonds, he is not eligible. Also, I think you'll find a sizable sentiment that either all of Bonds career is negligible or at least the latter half. Wether you agree with that or not is moot as these are each our own ballots.

As for Henderson, it's debatable where he stands amongst the casual fans and the fever-ites. Personally, I have Henderson behind Yastrzemski. However, I voted for Rickey earlier because it's a hall of fame ballot and not just "best player".