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BBF Mets franchise HOF round two

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  • BBF Mets franchise HOF round two

    This election will close on October 29, 2011, at 7:00 a.m EDT.

    This is the second round for this franchise. The first round is here


    We inducted the following players:
    Dwight Gooden
    Keith Hernandez
    Howard Johnson
    Jerry Koosman
    Mike Piazza
    Tom Seaver
    Darryl Strawberry

    And the following contributors:
    Frank Cashen
    Gil Hodges
    Davey Johnson

    PLEASE READ THE FORMAT AND RULES SECTION BEFORE VOTING. THANK YOU.

    FORMAT AND RULES

    Purpose: The purpose of this project is to create a Hall of Fame for each franchise whereby each franchise will honor those individuals whose contributions and accomplishments are most notable, significant, and enduring to that franchise's history. This project is not about simply honoring those with the best statistics with each franchise.

    Standards: Each franchise has its own unique history and context, and thus contributions and accomplishments that may stand out remarkably within one franchise's history, may not be so remarkable in another franchise's history. Standards from franchise to franchise will inherently vary, and thus there should be no impetus to create equal standards among the franchises or to aspire to the standards of the National Baseball Hall of Fame. Consequently, subjectivity within the context of the franchise in question will play an inevitable role when considering an individual's contributions and accomplishments with respect to that franchise. In sum, a franchise's Hall of Fame should be unaffected by the standards and contexts of other franchises as well as the National Baseball Hall of Fame, and should be entirely a product of its own history.

    Election Format: Elections will be conducted one franchise at a time starting in chronological order with the oldest continuously and currently operational franchise. Each election will last approximately five days.
    - Ballot Size: Voters can select up to 15 players and 5 contributors per election. There is no minimum ballot size.
    - Ballot Editing: To account for ongoing discussion, voters may edit their ballots as often as necessary through the end of an election.
    - Election Percentage: Any individual that is listed on at least 75% of either the player or contributor submitted ballots will be elected to that team's Hall of Fame. In instances where an individual receive votes as both a player and a contributor, that individual will be elected if listed on at least 75% of ballots in either category or if the individual's combined vote total is at least 75% of the category with the greatest number of ballots submitted.
    - Subsequent Rounds: After an election has been performed for each franchise, a second round of elections will commence, again proceeding in chronological order. A third round of elections (and perhaps beyond) may also be held depending on interest.

    Eligibility:
    - Players: Players may be considered by any currently operational franchise for which they appeared and are eligible either immediately upon officially retiring or after having not appeared at any level of professional baseball for an entire season for reasons not due to injury.
    - Contributors: Individuals that contributed in other capacities to a franchise may be considered, including managers, coaches, executives, owners, and broadcasters. Mascots are eligible. Contributors that are still active may only be elected by their current employing franchise, and cannot be considered by prior employing franchises until no longer active (this does not apply to individuals who are employed by a franchise only in nominal and/or non-integral ways, such as in scouting, consulting, or public relations capacities).
    - Multiple Capacities: The totality of contributions and accomplishments with respect to a franchise are to be considered, and thus an individual can only be elected once by a franchise. For purposes of ballot size limits, an individual should be designated either a player or contributor based on what the voter perceives to be the individual's greater role with the franchise. An individual should not be listed as either a player or contributor merely to facilitate ballot space for the other category.
    - Relocations/Renaming: Franchises that have relocated and/or been renamed, may still consider and elect individuals that were with the franchise prior to the relocation/renaming.
    - Multiple Franchises: An individual may be considered and elected by multiple franchises.

    Franchise History
    - Founded: 1962 (NL for entire existence)
    - Former Locations/Names:

    Titles
    - World Series Championships: 2 (1969, 1986)
    - Pennants: 4 (1969, 1973, 1986, 2000)
    - Division Titles: 5 (1969, 1973, 1986, 1988, 2006)
    - Wild Card Berths: 2 (1999, 2000)

    Helpful Links
    The following links are all courtesy of baseball-reference.com, baseball-almanac.com, and wikipedia.com, and may assist voters in determining an individual's impact on this franchise:
    - Franchise Almanac
    - All Batters
    - All Pitchers
    - Batting Leaders
    - Pitching Leaders
    - Most Common Positional Starters
    - Most Common Pitching Staff Alignments
    - Managers
    - Notable Owners and Executives
    - Notable Broadcasters

    Award Recipients
    - MVP Recipients (0):

    - Cy Young Recipients (4): Dwight Gooden (1985), Tom Seaver (1975), Tom Seaver (1973), Tom Seaver (1969)

    - RoY Recipients (4): Dwight Gooden (1984), Darryl Strawberry (1983), Jon Matlack (1972), Tom Seaver (1967)

    - Batting Triple Crown (0):

    - Pitching Triple Crown (1): Dwight Gooden (1985)

    Multiple All Star Selections (no adjustment for double selections for 1959-1962)
    Code:
    Rank 	Player			Selections
    1	Tom Seaver		9
    t2	Mike Piazza		7
    t2	Darryl Strawberry	7
    4	David Wright*		5
    t5	Carlos Beltran*		4
    t5	Gary Carter		4
    t5	Dwight Gooden		4
    t5	John Stearns		4
    t9	Keith Hernandez		3
    t9	Jon Matlack		3
    t9	Jose Reyes*		3
    t12	Richie Ashburn		2
    t12	Bobby Bonilla		2
    t12	David Cone		2
    t12	Sid Fernandez		2
    t12	Tom Glavine		2
    t12	Jerry Grote		2
    t12	Bud Harrelson		2
    t12	Todd Hundley		2
    t12	Ron Hunt		2
    t12	Howard Johnson		2
    t12	Jerry Koosman		2
    t12	Pedro Martinez		2
    t12	Willie Mays		2
    t12	Jesse Orosco		2
    t12	Rick Reed		2
    t12	Frank Viola		2
    t12	Billy Wagner		2
    
    * Player is currently active
    Notable Managers (with at least 300 games managed with this franchise or at least one pennant win)
    Code:
    Manager			Games		Win %	WS Titles	Pennants	Div Titles	Wild Cards
    Yogi Berra		588		.497
    Dallas Green		512		.447			1		1
    Gil Hodges		649		.523	1		1		1
    Art Howe		323		.424
    Davey Johnson		1012		.588	1		1		2
    Jerry Manuel		417		.489
    Willie Randolph		555		.544			1
    Casey Stengel		582		.302
    Joe Torre		709		.405
    Bobby Valentine		1003		.534			1				2
    Wes Westrum		380		.375
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  • #2
    Players:
    Edgardo Alfonzo
    David Cone
    Sid Fernandez
    Cleon Jones
    Al Leiter
    Jon Matlack
    John Stearns



    Contributors
    Ralph Kiner
    George Weiss
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

    Comment


    • #3
      Players
      Edgardo Alfonzo
      David Cone
      Ron Darling
      Lenny Dykstra
      Sid Fernandez
      Bud Harrelson
      Cleon Jones
      Al Leiter
      Dave Magadan
      Jon Matlack
      Kevin McReynolds
      John Olerud
      Rick Reed
      John Stearns
      Mookie Wilson

      Contributors
      Yogi Berra
      Willie Randolph
      Bobby Valentine
      Last edited by Nerdlinger; 10-16-2011, 09:20 AM.
      *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

      Comment


      • #4
        Players:

        Tommy Agee
        Wally Backman
        Hubie Brooks
        Gary Carter
        Dave Cone
        Sid Fernandez
        George Foster
        John Franco
        Jerry Grote
        Bud Harrelson
        Ed Kranepool
        Lee Mazzili
        Tug McGraw
        Rusty Staub
        Mookie Wilson

        Contributors:

        Ralph Kiner
        Bob Murphy
        Lindsey Nelson
        William A. Shea
        Mel Stottlemyre

        Player Queue:

        Lenny Dykstra
        Kevin McReynolds

        Contributor Queue:

        Joe McIlvaine
        Last edited by jjpm74; 10-15-2011, 05:07 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          jalbright and DJC, I notice John Franco is not present on either of your ballots. It can't be overstated how important Franco was to this franchise. He was the face of the franchise for 15 years and their closer for most of that time.

          Comment


          • #6
            Yes, Franco and Kranepool should be inducted long before Howard Johnson. How did he ever get in as a charter member?
            .


            19th Century League Champion
            1900s League Champion
            1910s League Champion

            1930s League Division Winner
            1950s League Champion
            1960 Strat-O-Matic League Regular Season Winner
            1960s League Division Winner
            1970s League Champion
            1971 Strat-O-Matic League Runner Up
            1980s League Champion
            All Time Greats League Champion

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post
              jalbright and DJC, I notice John Franco is not present on either of your ballots. It can't be overstated how important Franco was to this franchise. He was the face of the franchise for 15 years and their closer for most of that time.
              He also amassed only 12.8 WAR in those 14 seasons. Pass.
              Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
              Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
              A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by jalbright View Post
                He also amassed only 12.8 WAR in those 14 seasons. Pass.
                1. WAR is not a reliable tool when looking at relievers.

                2. You have Cleon Jones on your ballot who managed a whopping 17.3 WAR as an everyday player.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Players
                  Edgardo Alfonzo
                  Gary Carter
                  David Cone
                  Sid Fernandez
                  John Franco
                  Cleon Jones
                  Ed Kranepool
                  Al Leiter
                  Jon Matlack
                  Tug McGraw
                  Mookie Wilson

                  Contributors
                  Ralph Kiner
                  Bobby Valentine
                  Last edited by Domenic; 10-16-2011, 09:15 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post
                    1. WAR is not a reliable tool when looking at relievers.

                    2. You have Cleon Jones on your ballot who managed a whopping 17.3 WAR as an everyday player.
                    WAR isn't perfect, but if he was, oh, a total of 10 WAR higher in the three measures I look at, I could go for him. As it is, he has 5.2 WAR in his best 3 seasons and a best 5 consecutive of 7.2. Jones had 15.3 in his best 3, and 16.6 in his best 5, plus his best season was for a world champion. Even so, he just squeaks in for me, basically because he really put everything into 3 years. Franco was there a long time, but IMHO he wasn't ever overwhelming with the Mets. It's also hard to do enough to get in when those whole 14 years total just over 700 IP. Interestingly, Franco was more valuable with the Reds in all three measures: 13.5 career, 9.0 best three, and 12.6 in best 5 consecutive. Basically, if he could have had a peak for the Mets like he had with the Reds, I think I'd support him.
                    Last edited by jalbright; 10-16-2011, 09:31 AM.
                    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Players:

                      Edgardo Alfonzo

                      David Cone

                      Sid Fernandez

                      Cleon Jones

                      Al Leiter

                      Jon Matlack

                      Mookie Wilson

                      Contributors:

                      Ralph Kiner

                      Bob Murphy

                      Lindsey Nelson

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm going with the older bunch this time around.

                        Tommie Agee
                        Wally Backman
                        Gary Carter
                        Ron Darling
                        Lenny Dykstra
                        Sid Fernandez
                        Jerry Grote
                        Bud Harrelson
                        Cleon Jones
                        Ed Kranepool
                        Jon Matlack
                        Lee Mazzilli
                        Tug McGraw
                        Rusty Staub
                        Mookie Wilson

                        Contributors:

                        Ralph Kiner
                        Bob Murphy
                        Lindsey Nelson
                        Bill Shea
                        Last edited by Cowtipper; 10-18-2011, 03:11 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Cleon Jones
                          Jerry Grote
                          Tug McGraw

                          that's all for me I need more than three or four seaons or else it's the HO guys that had a few good years with a team
                          FWIW Franco was excrutiating throughout most of his tenure

                          contributors:
                          Joan Payson, unless she is ineligible HTF is noone voting for her she only was the owner from 1962 until her death
                          Ralph Kiner
                          Bill Shea
                          Last edited by PVNICK; 10-18-2011, 04:02 AM. Reason: typos but really to add my own glaring omission - Bill Shea

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Players
                            Edgardo Alfonzo
                            Gary Carter
                            David Cone
                            Ron Darling
                            Sid Fernandez
                            John Franco
                            Bud Harrelson
                            Cleon Jones
                            Ed Kranepool
                            Al Leiter
                            Jon Matlack
                            Tug McGraw
                            Rusty Staub
                            John Stearnes
                            Mookie Wilson


                            Contributors
                            Ralph Kiner
                            Joan Payson (PVNICK is right, she should have been in the first ballot)
                            Bob Murphy
                            William Shea
                            Bobby Valentine
                            The Writer's Journey

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Players
                              Tommie Agee
                              Edgardo Alfonzo
                              Gary Carter
                              David Cone
                              Ron Darling
                              Sid Fernandez
                              John Franco
                              Tom Glavine
                              Jerry Grote
                              Bud Harrelson
                              Cleon Jones
                              Al Leiter
                              Jon Matlack
                              Jesse Orosco
                              John Stearns

                              Contributors
                              Ralph Kiner
                              Bob Murphy
                              Lindsey Nelson
                              Joan Payson
                              Bobby Valentine

                              Comment

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