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Ranking the HoF Players: 51-55

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  • Ranking the HoF Players: 51-55

    Project Summary: To rank the worthiness of the players inducted into the National Baseball Hall of Fame from most worthy to least worthy.

    Election Format: Voters will submit ballots ranking their 10 most worthy remaining Hall of Fame players in order of worthiness. Each first place vote will be worth 10 points, with each successive rank being worth one point less than the previous rank, ending in a tenth place vote being worth 1 point. Players will also receive one additional point for each ballot they are listed on and players must be listed on at least three ballots in order to be elected. The five players with the highest support at the end of each election will be elected in the order of their support. Elections will last approximately seven days.
    - Tiebreakers: In the event of a tie among players at the end of an election, the first tiebreaker will be the total number of ballot appearance in that election. The second tiebreaker will be total number of points irrespective of number of ballots. The third tiebreaker will be the number first place votes in that election. In the event that there remains a tie for the fifth and final spot in an election, there will be a three day run-off by poll. Players that lose in a run-off will slot into the next ranking spot.

    Factors to Consider: As this project focuses on players inducted into the National Baseball Hall of Fame, subjective qualities beyond just statistics should be taken into consideration in determining a player's relative worthiness. In that vein, the voting guidelines that the BBWAA is to follow in actual National Baseball Hall of Fame elections, may be instructive (though not necessarily determinative in this project): "Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played."

    Player Eligibility: Only players that have been elected to the National Baseball Hall of Fame as players are eligible, including Negro League players and 19th Century players. A complete list of individuals that have been inducted as players is available at the National Baseball Hall of Fame's website, and is recreated below along with each player's corresponding BBF Rank as determined by this project:

    1) Babe Ruth
    2) Willie Mays
    3) Ty Cobb
    4) Ted Williams
    5) Hank Aaron
    6) Honus Wagner
    7) Walter Johnson
    8) Lou Gehrig
    9) Cy Young
    10) Stan Musial
    11) Mickey Mantle
    12) Rogers Hornsby
    13) Jackie Robinson
    14) Tris Speaker
    15) Josh Gibson
    16) Eddie Collins
    17) Satchel Paige
    18) Grover Alexander
    19) Frank Robinson
    20) Joe DiMaggio
    21) Oscar Charleston
    22) Mike Schmidt
    23) Lefty Grove
    24) Tom Seaver
    25) Cap Anson
    26) Christy Mathewson
    27) Rickey Henderson
    28) Jimmie Foxx
    29) Nap Lajoie
    30) Joe Morgan
    31) Johnny Bench
    32) Mel Ott
    33) Warren Spahn
    34) Yogi Berra
    35) Cal Ripken
    36) George Brett
    37) Pop Lloyd
    38) Kid Nichols
    39) Eddie Mathews
    40) Bob Feller
    41) Roberto Clemente
    42) Bob Gibson
    43) Joe Williams
    44) Carl Yastrzemski
    45) Hank Greenberg
    46) Dan Brouthers
    47) Steve Carlton
    48) Sandy Koufax
    49) Ed Delahanty
    50) Johnny Mize

    Master List
    [B][U]Player				BBF Rank[/U][/B]
    Hank Aaron			5
    Grover Alexander		18
    Roberto Alomar
    Cap Anson			25
    Luis Aparicio
    Luke Appling
    Richie Ashburn
    Earl Averill
    Frank Baker
    Dave Bancroft
    Ernie Banks
    Jake Beckley
    Cool Papa Bell
    Johnny Bench			31
    Chief Bender
    Yogi Berra			34
    Bert Blyleven
    Wade Boggs
    Jim Bottomley
    Lou Boudreau
    Roger Bresnahan
    George Brett			36
    Lou Brock
    Dan Brouthers			46
    Mordecai Brown
    Ray Brown
    Willard Brown
    Jim Bunning
    Jesse Burkett
    Roy Campanella
    Rod Carew
    Max Carey
    Steve Carlton			47
    Gary Carter
    Orlando Cepeda
    Frank Chance
    Oscar Charleston		21
    Jack Chesbro
    Fred Clarke
    John Clarkson
    Roberto Clemente		41
    Ty Cobb				3
    Mickey Cochrane
    Eddie Collins			16
    Jimmy Collins
    Earle Combs
    Roger Connor
    Andy Cooper
    Stan Coveleski
    Sam Crawford
    Jo Cronin
    Kiki Cuyler
    Ray Dandridge
    George Davis
    Andre Dawson
    Leon Day
    Dizzy Dean
    Ed Delahanty			49
    Bill Dickey
    Martin Dihigo	
    Joe DiMaggio			20
    Larry Doby
    Bobby Doerr
    Don Drysdale
    Hugh Duffy
    Dennis Eckersley
    Johnny Evers
    Buck Ewing
    Red Faber
    Bob Feller			40
    Rick Ferrell
    Rollie Fingers
    Carlton Fisk
    Elmer Flick
    Whitey Ford
    Bill Foster
    Nellie Fox
    Jimmie Foxx			28
    Frankie Frisch
    Pud Galvin
    Lou Gehrig			8
    Charlie Gehringer
    Bob Gibson			42
    Josh Gibson			15
    Lefty Gomez
    Joe Gordon
    Goose Goslin
    Rich Gossage
    Frank Grant
    Hank Greenberg			45
    Burleigh Grimes
    Lefty Grove			23
    Tony Gwynn
    Chick Hafey
    Jesse Haines
    Billy Hamilton
    Gabby Hartnett
    Harry Heilmann
    Rickey Henderson		27
    Billy Herman
    Pete Hill
    Harry Hooper
    Rogers Hornsby			12
    Waite Hoyt
    Carl Hubbell
    Catfish Hunter
    Monte Irvin
    Reggie Jackson
    Travis Jackson
    Ferguson Jenkins
    Hugh Jennings
    Judy Johnson
    Walter Johnson			7
    Addie Joss
    Al Kaline
    Tim Keefe
    Willie Keeler
    George Kell
    Joe Kelley
    George Kelly
    King Kelly
    Harmon Killebrew
    Ralph Kiner
    Chuck Klein
    Sandy Koufax			48
    Nap Lajoie			29
    Tony Lazzeri
    Bob Lemon
    Buck Leonard
    Freddie Lindstrom
    Pop Lloyd			37
    Ernie Lombard
    Ted Lyons
    Biz Mackey
    Mickey Mantle			11
    Heinie Manush
    Rabbit Maranville
    Juan Marichal
    Rube Marquard
    Eddie Mathews			39
    Christy Mathewson		26
    Willie Mays			2
    Bill Mazeroski
    Tommy McCarthy
    Willie McCovey
    Joe McGinnity
    Bid McPhee
    Joe Medwick
    Jose Mendez
    Johnny Mize			50
    Paul Molitor
    Joe Morgan			30
    Eddie Murray
    Stan Musial			10
    Hal Newhouser
    Kid Nichols			38
    Phil Niekro
    Jim O’Rourke
    Mel Ott				32
    Satchel Paige			17
    Jim Palmer
    Herb Pennock
    Tony Perez
    Gaylord Perry
    Eddie Plank
    Kirby Puckett
    Charles Radbourn
    Pee Wee Reese
    Jim Rice
    Sam Rice
    Cal Ripken			35
    Eppa Rixey
    Phil Rizzuto
    Robin Roberts
    Brooks Robinson
    Frank Robinson			19
    Jackie Robinson			13
    Bullet Rogan
    Edd Roush
    Red Ruffing
    Amos Rusie
    Babe Ruth			1
    Nolan Ryan
    Ryne Sandberg
    Louis Santop
    Ray Schalk
    Mike Schmidt			22
    Red Schoendienst
    Tom Seaver			24
    Joe Sewell
    Al Simmons
    George Sisler
    Enos Slaughter
    Hilton Smith
    Ozzie Smith
    Duke Snider
    Warren Spahn			33
    Tris Speaker			14
    Willie Stargell
    Turkey Stearnes
    Bruce Sutter
    Mule Suttles
    Don Sutton
    Ben Taylor
    Bill Terry
    Sam Thompson
    Joe Tinker
    Cristobal Torriente
    Pie Traynor
    Dazzy Vance
    Arky Vaughan
    Rube Waddell
    Honus Wagner			6
    Bobby Wallace
    Ed Walsh
    Lloyd Waner
    Paul Waner
    John Ward
    Mickey Welch
    Willie Wells
    Zack Wheat
    Hoyt Wilhelm
    Billy Williams
    Joe Williams			43
    Ted Williams			4
    Vic Willis
    Hack Wilson
    Jud Wilson
    Dave Winfield
    Early Wynn
    Carl Yastrzemski		44
    Cy Young			9
    Ross Youngs
    Robin Yount
    Links to Previous Elections
    Election 1-5
    Election 6-10
    Election 11-15
    Election 16-20
    Election 21- 25
    Election 26-30
    Election 31-35
    Election 36-40 (41)
    Election 42-45
    Election 46-50

  • #2
    1) Al Kaline
    2) Roger Connor
    3) Mickey Cochrane
    4) Arky Vaughan
    5) Ernie Banks
    6) Wade Boggs
    7) Robin Yount
    8) Turkey Stearnes
    9) Rod Carew
    10) Charlie Gehringer

    Possible Next 10: Jesse Burkett, Roy Campanella, Sam Crawford, George Davis, Tony Gwynn, Billy Hamilton, Reggie Jackson, Juan Marichal, Nolan Ryan, Duke Snider


    • #3
      1) John Clarkson (10)
      2) Jesse Burkett (9)
      3) Tony Gwynn (8)
      4) Eddie Murray (7)
      5) Paul Waner (6)
      6) Turkey Stearnes (5)
      7) Wade Boggs (4)
      8) Sam Crawford (3)
      9) Nolan Ryan (2)
      10) Al Kaline (1)


      • #4
        1. Turkey Stearnes
        2. Roger Connor
        3. Wade Boggs
        4. Charlie Gehringer
        5. Al Kaline
        6. George Davis
        7. Phil Niekro
        8. Arky Vaughan
        9. Bullet Joe Rogan
        10. Gaylord Perry
        Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
        Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
        A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.


        • #5
          01. Arky Vaughan
          02. Turkey Stearnes
          03. Al Kaline
          04. Roger Connor
          05. Roy Campanella
          06. Carl Hubbell
          07. Wade Boggs
          08. Charlie Gehringer
          09. George Davis
          10. Mickey Cochrane


          • #6
            1. Turkey Stearns
            2. Al Kaline
            3. Tony Gwynn
            4. Mickey Cochrane
            5. Wade Boggs
            6. Nolan Ryan
            7. Charlie Gehringer
            8. Eddie Murray
            9. Reggie Jackson
            10. King Kelly


            • #7
              1. Mickey Cochrane (10)
              2. Al Kaline (9)
              3. Charlie Gehringer (8)
              4. Wade Boggs (7)
              5. Robin Yount (6)
              6. Eddie Murray (5)
              7. Carlton Fisk (4)
              8. Carl Hubbell (3)
              9. Arky Vaughan (2)
              10. Al Simmons (1)
              Turkey Stearnes
              Sam Crawford
              Rod Carew
              Gary Carter
              Eddie Plank
              Reggie Jackson
              Roy Campanella
              Tony Gwynn
              Duke Snider
              Mordecai Brown


              • #8
                1. Charlie Gehringer
                2. Wade Boggs
                3. Bullet Rogan
                4. Tony Gwynn
                5. Martin Dihigo
                6. Rod Carew
                7. Sam Crawford
                8. Paul Waner
                9. Dennis Eckersley
                10. Roger Connor


                • #9
                  1. Monte Ward - 10
                  2. Al Kaline - 9
                  3. Mickey Cochrane - 8
                  4. King Kelly - 7
                  5. Nolan Ryan - 6
                  6. Charlie Gehringer - 5
                  7. Rod Carew - 4
                  8. Buck Ewing - 3
                  9. Sam Crawford - 2
                  10. Turkey Stearnes - 1

                  Boggs, Connor, Banks, Baker, Yount, Jackson, Dickey, Ford, Leonard, Marichal, Waner, Murray, Gwynn are in the front show up for me soon


                  • #10
                    In Vaughan's case, the Win Shares and WAR figures you posted don't account for the fact that Jackson needed nearly 4000 more plate appearances than Vaughan to get his totals. Vaughan essentially walked away from baseball at the prime age 31, meaning that he bested Jackson in WAR despite having just 297 total plate appearances after age 31, while Jackson played right up to age 41 to get to his total.

                    As for Banks, subjectively, I don't think there's much if any difference between Banks and Jackson. Both players were huge stars, and Banks is probably more beloved (the whole "let's play two" thing while toiling on the Cubs seems to endear him).

                    What WAR and Win Shares also don't show is premium. There are more players who can play right field and have great careers like Jackson, than there are players who can play SS and have great careers like Vaughan or Banks (though I realize that Banks actually played the majority of his games at 1B).

                    Look at it this way, if you're drafting a a team and Vaughan and Jackson are neck and neck in WAR, who has the greater value with the pick? I'd definitely go with Vaughan, as I have more confidence that a round later I can get a corner OFer to approximate Jackson's value than I can find a SS to approximate Vaughan's. I think this is especially true given that the two players got the same amount of value out of their careers (by WAR) despite Vaughan's career being only about 2/3 as long as Jackson's.

                    In any event, I think it's all nitpicking at this point as these players are all closely clustered. Jackson's close for, and the fact that I happened to pick a few players above him isn't a slight to him so much as it's just a sign about how close these players are. I could probably mix up my current 10 man ballot with 20-25 different players and I'd still feel OK with my choices.


                    • #11
                      ...or Vaughan's. He was pretty much forgotten for 40 or 50 years before Bill James started pointing out that he was really a great player. Still the most memorable thing about him outside his numbers is that he quit the game for a couple years because he couldn't abide playing for Leo Durocher (he missed time during WWII, but it was because of a clubhouse dispute not because of the war).


                      • #12
                        These things are completely subjective. There is no right or wrong answer and this kind of nitpicking and hairsplitting almost put me off of the project early on.

                        1. Roy Campanella
                        2. Eddie Murray
                        3. Juan Marichal
                        4. Al Kaline
                        5. Willie Stargell
                        6. Willie McCovey
                        7. Reggie Jackson
                        8. Phil Niekro
                        9. Carlton Fisk
                        10. Ferguson Jenkins
                        3 6 10 21 29 31 35 41 42 44 47


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Los Bravos View Post
                          These things are completely subjective. There is no right or wrong answer and this kind of nitpicking and hairsplitting almost put me off of the project early on.
                          Quoted for truth.


                          • #14
                            1. Al Kaline
                            2. Charlie Gehringer
                            3. George Davis
                            4. Turkey Stearnes
                            5. Mickey Cochrane
                            6. Roger Connor
                            7. Ernie Banks
                            8. Reggie Jackson
                            9. Wade Boggs
                            10. Nolan Ryan


                            • #15
                              I don't know why you're putting so much energy into this Banks versus R. Jackson thing when I have Jackson higher as well. I only got into this to say that Banks is a far more worthy candidate than you initially indicated.
                              Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                              Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                              A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.


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