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Ranking the HoF Players: 56-60

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  • Ranking the HoF Players: 56-60

    Project Summary: To rank the worthiness of the players inducted into the National Baseball Hall of Fame from most worthy to least worthy.

    Election Format: Voters will submit ballots ranking their 10 most worthy remaining Hall of Fame players in order of worthiness. Each first place vote will be worth 10 points, with each successive rank being worth one point less than the previous rank, ending in a tenth place vote being worth 1 point. Players will also receive one additional point for each ballot they are listed on and players must be listed on at least three ballots in order to be elected. The five players with the highest support at the end of each election will be elected in the order of their support. Elections will last approximately seven days.
    - Tiebreakers: In the event of a tie among players at the end of an election, the first tiebreaker will be the total number of ballot appearance in that election. The second tiebreaker will be total number of points irrespective of number of ballots. The third tiebreaker will be the number first place votes in that election. In the event that there remains a tie for the fifth and final spot in an election, there will be a three day run-off by poll. Players that lose in a run-off will slot into the next ranking spot.

    Factors to Consider: As this project focuses on players inducted into the National Baseball Hall of Fame, subjective qualities beyond just statistics should be taken into consideration in determining a player's relative worthiness. In that vein, the voting guidelines that the BBWAA is to follow in actual National Baseball Hall of Fame elections, may be instructive (though not necessarily determinative in this project): "Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played."

    Player Eligibility: Only players that have been elected to the National Baseball Hall of Fame as players are eligible, including Negro League players and 19th Century players. A complete list of individuals that have been inducted as players is available at the National Baseball Hall of Fame's website, and is recreated below along with each player's corresponding BBF Rank as determined by this project:

    Results
    1) Babe Ruth
    2) Willie Mays
    3) Ty Cobb
    4) Ted Williams
    5) Hank Aaron
    6) Honus Wagner
    7) Walter Johnson
    8) Lou Gehrig
    9) Cy Young
    10) Stan Musial
    11) Mickey Mantle
    12) Rogers Hornsby
    13) Jackie Robinson
    14) Tris Speaker
    15) Josh Gibson
    16) Eddie Collins
    17) Satchel Paige
    18) Grover Alexander
    19) Frank Robinson
    20) Joe DiMaggio
    21) Oscar Charleston
    22) Mike Schmidt
    23) Lefty Grove
    24) Tom Seaver
    25) Cap Anson
    26) Christy Mathewson
    27) Rickey Henderson
    28) Jimmie Foxx
    29) Nap Lajoie
    30) Joe Morgan
    31) Johnny Bench
    32) Mel Ott
    33) Warren Spahn
    34) Yogi Berra
    35) Cal Ripken
    36) George Brett
    37) Pop Lloyd
    38) Kid Nichols
    39) Eddie Mathews
    40) Bob Feller
    41) Roberto Clemente
    42) Bob Gibson
    43) Joe Williams
    44) Carl Yastrzemski
    45) Hank Greenberg
    46) Dan Brouthers
    47) Steve Carlton
    48) Sandy Koufax
    49) Ed Delahanty
    50) Johnny Mize
    51) Al Kaline
    52) Turkey Stearnes
    53) Wade Boggs
    54) Charlie Gehringer
    55) Mickey Cochrane

    Master List
    Code:
    Player				BBF Rank
    Hank Aaron			5
    Grover Alexander		18
    Roberto Alomar
    Cap Anson			25
    Luis Aparicio
    Luke Appling
    Richie Ashburn
    Earl Averill
    Frank Baker
    Dave Bancroft
    Ernie Banks
    Jake Beckley
    Cool Papa Bell
    Johnny Bench			31
    Chief Bender
    Yogi Berra			34
    Bert Blyleven
    Wade Boggs			53
    Jim Bottomley
    Lou Boudreau
    Roger Bresnahan
    George Brett			36
    Lou Brock
    Dan Brouthers			46
    Mordecai Brown
    Ray Brown
    Willard Brown
    Jim Bunning
    Jesse Burkett
    Roy Campanella
    Rod Carew
    Max Carey
    Steve Carlton			47
    Gary Carter
    Orlando Cepeda
    Frank Chance
    Oscar Charleston		21
    Jack Chesbro
    Fred Clarke
    John Clarkson
    Roberto Clemente		41
    Ty Cobb				3
    Mickey Cochrane			55
    Eddie Collins			16
    Jimmy Collins
    Earle Combs
    Roger Connor
    Andy Cooper
    Stan Coveleski
    Sam Crawford
    Jo Cronin
    Kiki Cuyler
    Ray Dandridge
    George Davis
    Andre Dawson
    Leon Day
    Dizzy Dean
    Ed Delahanty			49
    Bill Dickey
    Martin Dihigo	
    Joe DiMaggio			20
    Larry Doby
    Bobby Doerr
    Don Drysdale
    Hugh Duffy
    Dennis Eckersley
    Johnny Evers
    Buck Ewing
    Red Faber
    Bob Feller			40
    Rick Ferrell
    Rollie Fingers
    Carlton Fisk
    Elmer Flick
    Whitey Ford
    Bill Foster
    Nellie Fox
    Jimmie Foxx			28
    Frankie Frisch
    Pud Galvin
    Lou Gehrig			8
    Charlie Gehringer		54
    Bob Gibson			42
    Josh Gibson			15
    Lefty Gomez
    Joe Gordon
    Goose Goslin
    Rich Gossage
    Frank Grant
    Hank Greenberg			45
    Burleigh Grimes
    Lefty Grove			23
    Tony Gwynn
    Chick Hafey
    Jesse Haines
    Billy Hamilton
    Gabby Hartnett
    Harry Heilmann
    Rickey Henderson		27
    Billy Herman
    Pete Hill
    Harry Hooper
    Rogers Hornsby			12
    Waite Hoyt
    Carl Hubbell
    Catfish Hunter
    Monte Irvin
    Reggie Jackson
    Travis Jackson
    Ferguson Jenkins
    Hugh Jennings
    Judy Johnson
    Walter Johnson			7
    Addie Joss
    Al Kaline			51
    Tim Keefe
    Willie Keeler
    George Kell
    Joe Kelley
    George Kelly
    King Kelly
    Harmon Killebrew
    Ralph Kiner
    Chuck Klein
    Sandy Koufax			48
    Nap Lajoie			29
    Tony Lazzeri
    Bob Lemon
    Buck Leonard
    Freddie Lindstrom
    Pop Lloyd			37
    Ernie Lombard
    Ted Lyons
    Biz Mackey
    Mickey Mantle			11
    Heinie Manush
    Rabbit Maranville
    Juan Marichal
    Rube Marquard
    Eddie Mathews			39
    Christy Mathewson		26
    Willie Mays			2
    Bill Mazeroski
    Tommy McCarthy
    Willie McCovey
    Joe McGinnity
    Bid McPhee
    Joe Medwick
    Jose Mendez
    Johnny Mize			50
    Paul Molitor
    Joe Morgan			30
    Eddie Murray
    Stan Musial			10
    Hal Newhouser
    Kid Nichols			38
    Phil Niekro
    Jim O’Rourke
    Mel Ott				32
    Satchel Paige			17
    Jim Palmer
    Herb Pennock
    Tony Perez
    Gaylord Perry
    Eddie Plank
    Kirby Puckett
    Charles Radbourn
    Pee Wee Reese
    Jim Rice
    Sam Rice
    Cal Ripken			35
    Eppa Rixey
    Phil Rizzuto
    Robin Roberts
    Brooks Robinson
    Frank Robinson			19
    Jackie Robinson			13
    Bullet Rogan
    Edd Roush
    Red Ruffing
    Amos Rusie
    Babe Ruth			1
    Nolan Ryan
    Ryne Sandberg
    Louis Santop
    Ray Schalk
    Mike Schmidt			22
    Red Schoendienst
    Tom Seaver			24
    Joe Sewell
    Al Simmons
    George Sisler
    Enos Slaughter
    Hilton Smith
    Ozzie Smith
    Duke Snider
    Warren Spahn			33
    Tris Speaker			14
    Willie Stargell
    Turkey Stearnes			52
    Bruce Sutter
    Mule Suttles
    Don Sutton
    Ben Taylor
    Bill Terry
    Sam Thompson
    Joe Tinker
    Cristobal Torriente
    Pie Traynor
    Dazzy Vance
    Arky Vaughan
    Rube Waddell
    Honus Wagner			6
    Bobby Wallace
    Ed Walsh
    Lloyd Waner
    Paul Waner
    John Ward
    Mickey Welch
    Willie Wells
    Zack Wheat
    Hoyt Wilhelm
    Billy Williams
    Joe Williams			43
    Ted Williams			4
    Vic Willis
    Hack Wilson
    Jud Wilson
    Dave Winfield
    Early Wynn
    Carl Yastrzemski		44
    Cy Young			9
    Ross Youngs
    Robin Yount
    Links to Previous Elections
    Election 1-5
    Election 6-10
    Election 11-15
    Election 16-20
    Election 21- 25
    Election 26-30
    Election 31-35
    Election 36-40 (41)
    Election 42-45
    Election 46-50
    Election 51-55

  • #2
    1) Roger Connor
    2) Arky Vaughan
    3) Ernie Banks
    4) Robin Yount
    5) Rod Carew
    6) Tony Gwynn
    7) Reggie Jackson
    8) Roy Campanella
    9) Sam Crawford
    10) Carl Hubbell

    As discussed last time, the fact that I'm not including a player may have more to do with how closely clustered I see the players at this stage than a real separation. Tough cuts are made. If I had to project my next ten in no particular order, I'd say the following (and this is certainly subject to change): Jesse Burkett, George Davis, Martin Dihigo, Buck Ewing, Billy Hamilton, Juan Marichal, Gaylord Perry, Robin Roberts, Nolan Ryan, Duke Snider

    Also, for those giving a big bump to Nolan Ryan because of the "fame" factor (and I admit that Ryan should get a subjective boost), does Jim Palmer get any additional consideration? Sabermetrics can be harsh on Palmer because of he perceived defensive support, but he was generally considered the best pitcher in the AL during the 1970s as evidenced by his 3 Cy Youngs, finished 2nd twice more, and top 5 a total of 8 times, and in general was regarded a big star (perhaps enhanced by his post-career work as a pitchman).
    Last edited by DoubleX; 10-26-2011, 06:53 AM.

    Comment


    • #3
      1. Monte Ward - 10
      2. King Kelly - 9
      3. Nolan Ryan - 8
      4. Rod Carew - 7
      5. Buck Ewing - 6
      6. Sam Crawford - 5
      7. Roger Connor - 4
      8. Robin Yount - 3
      9. Reggie Jackson- 2
      10. Buck Leonard - 1

      Banks, Baker, Dickey, Ford, Hubbell, Marichal, Waner, Murray, Gwynn are in the front show up for me soon
      Last edited by PVNICK; 10-26-2011, 07:57 AM. Reason: had King Kelly as #2 and 4. corrected and Buck Leonard is now 10

      Comment


      • #4
        Let me throw out a general question that was discussed a bit when the project started...

        The Hall of Fame will announce its new inductees (if any) in early January, and it's quite possible that Barry Larkin and Ron Santo (fingers-crossed) could be elected, and perhaps Allie Reynolds as well (given how close he got last time with this VC). Assuming we proceed with an election a week between now and then, we should be around 110, and I suspect there will be voters who would consider Larkin and Santo around that time, if not earlier. So any thoughts on how we should go about this? Here are the three thoughts I had:

        1) Wait and see (we wouldn't want to jinx anything).

        2) Assume they'll be elected and include them in the mix and if we elect them before the real results are announced and they aren't elected, I would just remove them from the results and move everyone behind up one spot.

        3) Forget about them entirely and just include only players that were inducted at the time the project started (plus, if we use the "induction" date as a cutoff, we'd be waiting until the end of July to include any new players elected, which would likely push Larkin and Santo, if elected, well back from where we'd rank them).

        Comment


        • #5
          I would lean towards choice 3. While I doubt it will get that far by Janaury it is possible that by then we will have passed where any new inductees would have been placed. Nothing wrong with having the poll be ranking the HOFers as of 2011 inductees.

          Comment


          • #6
            1 - Monte Ward
            2 - Nolan Ryan
            3 - Reggie Jackson
            4 - Robin Yount
            5 - Roger Connor
            6 - King Kelly
            7 - Carl Hubbell
            8 - Whitey Ford
            9 - Billy Hamilton
            10 - Sam Crawford

            Comment


            • #7
              --I suggest we have a special election for new inductes. Perhaps a poll with opitions like top 25, top 50, top 75, top 100 and "not yet" and insert them in the winning slot. I suspect Santo and Larkin wouldn't get any top 25/top 50 slots, but they may get some top 75 or almost certainly some top 100 support.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by DoubleX View Post
                2) Assume they'll be elected and include them in the mix and if we elect them before the real results are announced and they aren't elected, I would just remove them from the results and move everyone behind up one spot.
                To me, this is the smoothest way to handle them. It won't disrupt the rhythm and momentum of the project. We know they're both slam dunk HOFers, and that it's only a matter of time until they're in. If people want to ignore or delete them if they don't get elected now, that's fine. At least they're ranked, as they should be. It also could serve as a small push for their election if we show to everyone where they rank among the hall of famers.

                In the Collaboration Game v2.0, if I'm counting right, Santo would rank 89th among HOFers (#103 overall), with Larkin at 96th (#112 overall).

                If the HOF wants to elect guys like Morris or Reynolds this year that's fine, they're near the bottom of the Hall. We might have a problem if they elect Bagwell (52nd in the Hall, #61 overall) this year, but that's a long shot.
                Last edited by Freakshow; 10-26-2011, 08:39 AM.
                Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

                Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

                Comment


                • #9
                  1) John Clarkson (10)
                  2) Jesse Burkett (9)
                  3) Tony Gwynn (8)
                  4) Eddie Murray (7)
                  5) Paul Waner (6)
                  6) Sam Crawford (5)
                  7) Nolan Ryan (4)
                  8) Arky Vaughan (3)
                  9) Ernie Banks (2)
                  10) Rod Carew (1)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Freakshow View Post
                    To me, this is the smoothest way to handle them. It won't disrupt the rhythm and momentum of the project. We know they're both slam dunk HOFers, and that it's only a matter of time until they're in. If people want to ignore or delete them if they don't get elected now, that's fine. At least they're ranked, as they should be. It also could serve as a small push for their election if we show to everyone where they rank among the hall of famers.

                    In the Collaboration Game v2.0, if I'm counting right, Santo would rank 89th among HOFers (#103 overall), with Larkin at 96th (#112 overall).

                    If the HOF wants to elect guys like Morris or Reynolds this year that's fine, they're near the bottom of the Hall. We might have a problem if they elect Bagwell (52nd in the Hall, #61 overall) this year, but that's a long shot.
                    I pretty much agree with this sentiment.

                    Consider Santo and Larkin HOFers (Reynolds won't be showing up until near the end of the project if he gets in) and just put a star next to them. If they don't get in, keep the star. If they do, remove the star.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      1. Tony Gwynn
                      2. Nolan Ryan
                      3. Eddie Murray
                      4. Reggie Jackson
                      5. King Kelly
                      6. John Ward
                      7. George Davis
                      8. Roy Campanella
                      9. Gary Carter
                      10. John Clarkson
                      Last edited by jjpm74; 10-26-2011, 12:06 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        1. Bullet Rogan
                        2. Tony Gwynn
                        3. Martin Dihigo
                        4. Sam Crawford
                        5. Paul Waner
                        6. Rod Carew
                        7. Dennis Eckersley
                        8. Roger Connor
                        9. Joe Medwick
                        10. Nolan Ryan

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post
                          1. Tony Gwynn
                          2. Nolan Ryan
                          3. Eddie Murray
                          4. Reggie Jackson
                          5. King Kelly
                          6. John Ward
                          7. George Davis
                          8. Roy Campanella
                          9. Sandy Koufax
                          10. Gary Carter
                          jjpm, we already elected Koufax, please replace when you get a chance. Thanks.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DoubleX View Post
                            jjpm, we already elected Koufax, please replace when you get a chance. Thanks.
                            Fixed. Sorry about that. It's getting harder to keep track of who we've already ranked.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              1. Roger Connor
                              2. George Davis
                              3. Phil Niekro
                              4. Arky Vaughan
                              5. Bullet Joe Rogan
                              6. Gaylord Perry
                              7. Bert Blyleven
                              8. Billy Hamilton
                              9. Rod Carew
                              10. John Clarkson
                              Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                              Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                              A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                              Comment

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