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BBF Mets franchise HOF round three

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  • #16
    Gary Carter
    Edgardo Alfonzo
    John Stearns
    John Franco
    Mookie Wilson
    Al Leiter
    Jesse Orosco
    Ron Darling
    Bud Harrelson
    "It ain't braggin' if you can do it." Dizzy Dean

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    • #17
      Originally posted by PVNICK View Post
      I know I made the same comments last time around and others chimed in. I don't quite have the time to do anything extensive and don't really appreciate being told effectively "its your fault we're not well informed"
      This project seeks to educate as well as provide enjoyment. Most franchises don't have a good hall project of their own, and I'm not interested in frequenting 30 franchise forums to discuss the best players of each franchise. I'm sure I'm not alone in that, and this project addresses that as best we can. That said, the contributor ballot isn't open this time, and you'll have another chance to state your case for her when the voting for all the franchises is done.
      Last edited by jalbright; 01-25-2012, 06:21 AM.
      Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
      Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
      A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

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      • #18
        I'd say that it appears there will be another round of voting for the Mets players.
        Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
        Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
        A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

        Comment


        • #19
          Owners after the guys that were around in the 19 aughts haven't done well. They've been regarded as primarily deep pockets, which isn't enough for our electorate. We're not all fans of one team, so that doesn't help, especially with contributors. Our electorate seems to be a pretty skeptical bunch on top of that, so a testimonial or two by our voters doesn't carry much weight. That's all we've gotten on behalf of Joan Payson, and may have swayed precisely one voter who didn't post a testimonial (she got three total). An argument for her was presented, but I think the evidence is clear that it failed to state a persuasive case on her behalf.
          Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
          Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
          A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

          Comment


          • #20
            What's up with the condescending tone?

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            • #21
              If I'm condescending, I apologize, but I feel you are in the same vein in your complaint, which IMHO implied we're the unwashed masses.
              Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
              Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
              A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

              Comment


              • #22
                Touche. My bad.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Payson was a minority owner of the NY Giants who voted against moving them to SF. When they moved, she used her money and influence to get NY a new baseball team. Also, being the huge Giants fan she was, she was instrumental in bringing back Willie Mays at the end of his career. That is pretty much it. She was team president when the Mets went to 2 World Series winning one of them, but what did she do to get them there? I don't see her omission as an oversight and I am a big fan of this franchise.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post
                    Payson was a minority owner of the NY Giants who voted against moving them to SF. When they moved, she used her money and influence to get NY a new baseball team. Also, being the huge Giants fan she was, she was instrumental in bringing back Willie Mays at the end of his career. That is pretty much it. She was team president when the Mets went to 2 World Series winning one of them, but what did she do to get them there? I don't see her omission as an oversight and I am a big fan of this franchise.
                    That bolded portion such as it is. But be that as it may she has been dead for nearly 40 years and isn't able to appreciate my apparently misguided homage.

                    I double checked my own ballot and have had to made several additions liek McGraw and carter so I havn't exactly been the most careful of voters here.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      My feeling was that when expansion came, the National League wanted New York as much as New York wanted a National League team. If that's the case, she needs something more notable to get my support. Maybe my impression is wrong, and I'll be happy to be educated on the point. Are there obituaries online that might make a better case for her?
                      Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                      Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                      A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I did a little digging such as it is and have cut and pasted the article below. For me growing up in the early to mid 70s she and Stengel were sort of the historical faces of the franchise.

                        Link ? The First Met's Owner & Woman Pioneeress: Joan Whitney Payson ...
                        http://www.centerfieldmaz.com/2011/0...er...joan.html - Cached


                        This Blog
                        This Blog


                        Feb 4, 2011The First Met's Owner & Woman Pioneeress: Joan Whitney Payson (1962-1975)
                        Joan Whitney Payson was born on February 5, 1903 in New York City. She was an heiress to the prominent Whitney Family and received much of the fortune when her father passed on. She would marry Charles Shipman Payson, a lawyer and successful businessman himself. The two lived in a 50 room mansion in Manhasset, NY with their own private art gallery.


                        She collected art and has many notable works donated in her name at the NY Metropolitan Museum of Art, in the Joan Payson Galleries. She along with her brother also ran Green Tree Stable & Breeding Farms in Saratoga NY & Lexington Kentucky. Their horses won four Belmont Stakes, two Kentucky Derby’s & a Preakness. The family interests also backed finances for Broadway plays & movies, including A Streetcar Named Desire & Gone With the Wind.


                        Mrs. Payson was a huge baseball fan and became a minority holder in the New York Giants baseball club. Her favorite player was Willie Mays. She voted against the Giants move to California, and sold her shares when they left. She began to work hard to find a replacement team.


                        In 1962 she became the first woman in America to buy a majority share of a sports team. She was the Mets majority stock holder, team President and was involved in baseball operations from 1962-1975. Unfortunately she trusted M. Donald Grant with many decisions in the later years. Her husband Charles Shipman had no interest in baseball. She loved her team, and was good to her players. They also had a deep respect and admiration for her.


                        She was always seen in the front row of Shea Stadium rooting on her team, not in an owner’s box. In 1972 she got Willie Mays back to New York to finish his career as a New York Met.


                        After her passing in 1975, her daughter inherited the team; Lorinda De Roulet.


                        She knew nothing about baseball either, and along with M. Donald Grant they destroyed the organization for the next few years.


                        They sold their shares in 1981 when the Wilpon/ Doubleday ownership took over.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I'll copy this into the general discussion thread, where I've started to post some cases for candidates who I'll put up for the second look round. While I won't promise my vote, I'll second her nomination if no one else does, thereby guaranteeing her a shot at the reconsideration ballot.
                          Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                          Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                          A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            From what I know of the Mets, it was William Shea and not Joan Payson who was the catalyst for getting a new team in NY. He was the one who proposed and formed the Continental League in the hopes of bringing a second team back to NY:

                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_League

                            Shea's role in establishing the Mets was much bigger than Payson's, IMO and William Shea is the person I nominate.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I'll copy jjpm's effort to the list of cases to be presented, and will also guarntee a second to ensure it gets a chance to be presented.
                              Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                              Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                              A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Edgardo Alfonzo
                                Gary Carter
                                Ron Darling
                                John Franco
                                Ed Kranepool - I'm surprised he is getting so little support. He was certainly not a superstar, but he was on the Mets every year in the 60's and 70's. I would never vote a player into Cooperstown based solely on longevity, but it is something special for a player to be on one team so long. And with his 97 career OPS+, he wasn't as bad as he is sometimes remembered (granted, you want more from your IB/OF, but this isn't just about stats). Due to my age i didn't really start following baseball until the late 70's, but I can't think of the first two decades of the Mets without including Kranepool. Through 5the Mets 50 years of existence, he is still their all time leader in hits, games played and at-bats, second in total bases and doubles, and top 10 in runs, triples, RBIs and homeruns. While that might be more indicitive of the anemic Mets offense over the years, someone that high up on all their leaderboards deserves to be in the team hall of fame.

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