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Ranking the HoF Players: 116-120

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  • Ranking the HoF Players: 116-120

    Project Summary: To rank the worthiness of the players inducted into the National Baseball Hall of Fame from most worthy to least worthy.

    Election Format: Voters will submit ballots ranking their 10 most worthy remaining Hall of Fame players in order of worthiness. Each first place vote will be worth 10 points, with each successive rank being worth one point less than the previous rank, ending in a tenth place vote being worth 1 point. Players will also receive one additional point for each ballot they are listed on and players must be listed on at least three ballots in order to be elected. The five players with the highest support at the end of each election will be elected in the order of their support. Elections will last approximately seven days.
    - Tiebreakers: In the event of a tie among players at the end of an election, the first tiebreaker will be the total number of ballot appearance in that election. The second tiebreaker will be total number of points irrespective of number of ballots. The third tiebreaker will be the number first place votes in that election. In the event that there remains a tie for the fifth and final spot in an election, there will be a three day run-off by poll. Players that lose in a run-off will slot into the next ranking spot.

    Factors to Consider: As this project focuses on players inducted into the National Baseball Hall of Fame, subjective qualities beyond just statistics should be taken into consideration in determining a player's relative worthiness. In that vein, the voting guidelines that the BBWAA is to follow in actual National Baseball Hall of Fame elections, may be instructive (though not necessarily determinative in this project): "Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played."

    Player Eligibility: Only players that have been elected to the National Baseball Hall of Fame as players are eligible, including Negro League players and 19th Century players. A complete list of individuals that have been inducted as players is available at the National Baseball Hall of Fame's website, and is recreated below along with each player's corresponding BBF Rank as determined by this project:

    Results
    1) Babe Ruth
    2) Willie Mays
    3) Ty Cobb
    4) Ted Williams
    5) Hank Aaron
    6) Honus Wagner
    7) Walter Johnson
    8) Lou Gehrig
    9) Cy Young
    10) Stan Musial
    11) Mickey Mantle
    12) Rogers Hornsby
    13) Jackie Robinson
    14) Tris Speaker
    15) Josh Gibson
    16) Eddie Collins
    17) Satchel Paige
    18) Grover Alexander
    19) Frank Robinson
    20) Joe DiMaggio
    21) Oscar Charleston
    22) Mike Schmidt
    23) Lefty Grove
    24) Tom Seaver
    25) Cap Anson
    26) Christy Mathewson
    27) Rickey Henderson
    28) Jimmie Foxx
    29) Nap Lajoie
    30) Joe Morgan
    31) Johnny Bench
    32) Mel Ott
    33) Warren Spahn
    34) Yogi Berra
    35) Cal Ripken
    36) George Brett
    37) Pop Lloyd
    38) Kid Nichols
    39) Eddie Mathews
    40) Bob Feller
    41) Roberto Clemente
    42) Bob Gibson
    43) Joe Williams
    44) Carl Yastrzemski
    45) Hank Greenberg
    46) Dan Brouthers
    47) Steve Carlton
    48) Sandy Koufax
    49) Ed Delahanty
    50) Johnny Mize
    51) Al Kaline
    52) Turkey Stearnes
    53) Wade Boggs
    54) Charlie Gehringer
    55) Mickey Cochrane
    56) Reggie Jackson
    57) Arky Vaughan
    58) Roger Connor
    59) Nolan Ryan
    60) Robin Yount
    61) Rod Carew
    62) Tony Gwynn
    63) Carl Hubbell
    64) Roy Campanella
    65) Ernie Banks
    66) Sam Crawford
    67) Duke Snider
    68) George Davis
    69) King Kelly
    70) John Ward
    71) Eddie Murray
    72) Bullet Rogan
    73) Harmon Killebrew
    74) Buck Ewing
    75) Billy Hamilton
    76) Gaylord Perry
    77) Carlton Fisk
    78) Paul Waner
    79) Juan Marichal
    80) Al Simmons
    81) John Clarkson
    82) Martin Dihigo
    83) Robin Roberts
    84) Willie McCovey
    85) Frankie Frisch
    86) Phil Niekro
    87) Eddie Plank
    88) Gary Carter
    89) Whitey Ford
    90) Tim Keefe
    91) Mordecai Brown
    92) Luke Appling
    93) Brooks Robinson
    94) Ferguson Jenkins
    95) Willie Stargell
    96) Frank Baker
    97) Jim Palmer
    98) Joe Cronin
    99) Bill Dickey
    100) Jesse Burkett
    101) Harry Heilmann
    102) Fred Clarke
    103) Buck Leonard
    104) Hoyt Wilhelm
    105) Ed Walsh
    106) Bert Blyleven
    107) Barry Larkin
    108) Gabby Hartnett
    109) Dave Winfield
    110) George Sisler
    111) Mule Suttles
    112) Joe Medwick
    113) Jim O'Rourke
    114) Jud Wilson
    115) Ozzie Smith

    Master List
    Code:
    Player				BBF Rank
    Hank Aaron			5
    Grover Alexander		18
    Roberto Alomar
    Cap Anson			25
    Luis Aparicio
    Luke Appling			92
    Richie Ashburn
    Earl Averill
    Frank Baker			96
    Dave Bancroft
    Ernie Banks			65
    Jake Beckley
    Cool Papa Bell
    Johnny Bench			31
    Chief Bender
    Yogi Berra			34
    Bert Blyleven			106
    Wade Boggs			53
    Jim Bottomley
    Lou Boudreau
    Roger Bresnahan
    George Brett			36
    Lou Brock
    Dan Brouthers			46
    Mordecai Brown			91
    Ray Brown
    Willard Brown
    Jim Bunning
    Jesse Burkett			100
    Roy Campanella			64
    Rod Carew			61
    Max Carey
    Steve Carlton			47
    Gary Carter			88
    Orlando Cepeda
    Frank Chance
    Oscar Charleston		21
    Jack Chesbro
    Fred Clarke			102
    John Clarkson			81
    Roberto Clemente		41
    Ty Cobb				3
    Mickey Cochrane			55
    Eddie Collins			16
    Jimmy Collins
    Earle Combs
    Roger Connor			58
    Andy Cooper
    Stan Coveleski
    Sam Crawford			66
    Joe Cronin			98
    Kiki Cuyler
    Ray Dandridge
    George Davis			68
    Andre Dawson
    Leon Day
    Dizzy Dean
    Ed Delahanty			49
    Bill Dickey			99
    Martin Dihigo			82
    Joe DiMaggio			20
    Larry Doby
    Bobby Doerr
    Don Drysdale
    Hugh Duffy
    Dennis Eckersley
    Johnny Evers
    Buck Ewing			74
    Red Faber
    Bob Feller			40
    Rick Ferrell
    Rollie Fingers
    Carlton Fisk			77
    Elmer Flick
    Whitey Ford			89
    Bill Foster
    Nellie Fox
    Jimmie Foxx			28
    Frankie Frisch			85
    Pud Galvin
    Lou Gehrig			8
    Charlie Gehringer		54
    Bob Gibson			42
    Josh Gibson			15
    Lefty Gomez
    Joe Gordon
    Goose Goslin
    Rich Gossage
    Frank Grant
    Hank Greenberg			45
    Burleigh Grimes
    Lefty Grove			23
    Tony Gwynn			62
    Chick Hafey
    Jesse Haines
    Billy Hamilton			75
    Gabby Hartnett			108
    Harry Heilmann			101
    Rickey Henderson		27
    Billy Herman
    Pete Hill
    Harry Hooper
    Rogers Hornsby			12
    Waite Hoyt
    Carl Hubbell			63
    Catfish Hunter
    Monte Irvin
    Reggie Jackson			56
    Travis Jackson	
    Ferguson Jenkins		94
    Hugh Jennings
    Judy Johnson
    Walter Johnson			7
    Addie Joss
    Al Kaline			51
    Tim Keefe			90
    Willie Keeler
    George Kell
    Joe Kelley
    George Kelly
    King Kelly			69
    Harmon Killebrew		73
    Ralph Kiner
    Chuck Klein
    Sandy Koufax			48
    Nap Lajoie			29
    Barry Larkin			107
    Tony Lazzeri
    Bob Lemon
    Buck Leonard			103
    Freddie Lindstrom
    Pop Lloyd			37
    Ernie Lombardi
    Ted Lyons
    Biz Mackey
    Mickey Mantle			11
    Heinie Manush
    Rabbit Maranville
    Juan Marichal			79
    Rube Marquard
    Eddie Mathews			39
    Christy Mathewson		26
    Willie Mays			2
    Bill Mazeroski
    Tommy McCarthy
    Willie McCovey			84
    Joe McGinnity
    Bid McPhee
    Joe Medwick			112
    Jose Mendez
    Johnny Mize			50
    Paul Molitor
    Joe Morgan			30
    Eddie Murray			71
    Stan Musial			10
    Hal Newhouser
    Kid Nichols			38
    Phil Niekro			86
    Jim O’Rourke			113
    Mel Ott				32
    Satchel Paige			17
    Jim Palmer			97
    Herb Pennock
    Tony Perez
    Gaylord Perry			76
    Eddie Plank			87
    Kirby Puckett
    Charles Radbourn
    Pee Wee Reese
    Jim Rice
    Sam Rice
    Cal Ripken			35
    Eppa Rixey
    Phil Rizzuto
    Robin Roberts			83
    Brooks Robinson			93
    Frank Robinson			19
    Jackie Robinson			13
    Bullet Rogan			72
    Edd Roush
    Red Ruffing
    Amos Rusie
    Babe Ruth			1
    Nolan Ryan			59
    Ryne Sandberg
    Ron Santo
    Louis Santop
    Ray Schalk
    Mike Schmidt			22
    Red Schoendienst
    Tom Seaver			24
    Joe Sewell
    Al Simmons			80
    George Sisler			110
    Enos Slaughter
    Hilton Smith
    Ozzie Smith			115
    Duke Snider			67
    Warren Spahn			33
    Tris Speaker			14
    Willie Stargell			95
    Turkey Stearnes			52
    Bruce Sutter
    Mule Suttles			111
    Don Sutton
    Ben Taylor
    Bill Terry
    Sam Thompson
    Joe Tinker
    Cristobal Torriente
    Pie Traynor
    Dazzy Vance
    Arky Vaughan			57
    Rube Waddell
    Honus Wagner			6
    Bobby Wallace
    Ed Walsh			105
    Lloyd Waner
    Paul Waner			78
    John Ward			70
    Mickey Welch
    Willie Wells
    Zack Wheat
    Hoyt Wilhelm			104
    Billy Williams
    Joe Williams			43
    Ted Williams			4
    Vic Willis
    Hack Wilson
    Jud Wilson			114
    Dave Winfield			109
    Early Wynn
    Carl Yastrzemski		44
    Cy Young			9
    Ross Youngs
    Robin Yount			60
    Ranking by Primary Position
    Catcher (10): Josh Gibson (15), Johnny Bench (31), Yogi Berra (34), Mickey Cochrane (55), Roy Campanella (64), Buck Ewing (74), Carlton Fisk (77), Gary Carter (88), Bill Dickey (99), Gabby Hartnett (108)

    First Base (13): Lou Gehrig (8), Cap Anson (25), Jimmie Foxx (28), Hank Greenberg (45), Dan Brouthers (46), Johnny Mize (50), Roger Connor (58), Eddie Murray (71), Harmon Killebrew (73), Willie McCovey (84), Buck Leonard (103), George Sisler (110), Mule Suttles (111)

    Second Base (8): Rogers Hornsby (12), Jackie Robinson (13), Eddie Collins (16), Nap Lajoie (29), Joe Morgan (30), Charlie Gehringer (54), Rod Carew (61), Frankie Frisch (85)

    Shortstop (12): Honus Wagner (6), Cal Ripken (35), Pop Lloyd (37), Arky Vaughan (57), Robin Yount (60), Ernie Banks (65), George Davis (68), John Ward (70), Luke Appling (92), Joe Cronin (98), Barry Larkin (107), Ozzie Smith (115)

    Third Base (7): Mike Schmidt (22), George Brett (36), Eddie Mathews (39), Wade Boggs (53), Brooks Robinson (93), Frank Baker (96), Jud Wilson (114)

    Left Field (11): Ted Williams (4), Stan Musial (10), Rickey Henderson (27), Carl Yastrzemski (44), Ed Delahanty (49), Al Simmons (80), Willie Stargell (95), Jesse Burkett (100), Fred Clarke (102), Joe Medwick (112), Jim O'Rourke (113)

    Center Field (9): Willie Mays (2), Ty Cobb (3), Mickey Mantle (11), Tris Speaker (14), Joe DiMaggio (20), Oscar Charleston (21), Turkey Stearnes (52), Duke Snider (67), Billy Hamilton (75)

    Right Field (13): Babe Ruth (1), Hank Aaron (5), Frank Robinson (19), Mel Ott (32), Roberto Clemente (41), Al Kaline (51), Reggie Jackson (56), Tony Gwynn (62), Sam Crawford (66), King Kelly (69), Paul Waner (78), Harry Heilmann (101), Dave Winfield (109)

    Pitcher (32): Walter Johnson (7), Cy Young (9), Satchel Paige (17), Grover Alexander (18), Lefty Grove (23), Tom Seaver (24), Christy Mathewson (26), Warren Spahn (33), Kid Nichols (38), Bob Feller (40), Bob Gibson (42), Joe Williams (43), Steve Carlton (47), Sandy Koufax (48), Nolan Ryan (59), Carl Hubbell (63), Bullet Rogan (72), Gaylord Perry (76), Juan Marichal (79), John Clarkson (81), Martin Dihigo (82), Robin Roberts (83), Phil Niekro (86), Eddie Plank (87), Whitey Ford (89), Tim Keefe (90), Mordecai Brown (91), Ferguson Jenkins (94), Jim Palmer (97), Hoyt Wilhelm (104), Ed Walsh (105), Bert Blyleven (106)

    Ranking by Primary Decade
    1880s (9): Cap Anson (25), Dan Brouthers (46), Roger Connor (58), King Kelly (69), John Ward (70), Buck Ewing (74), John Clarkson (81), Tim Keefe (90), Jim O'Rourke (113)

    1890s (6): Cy Young (9), Kid Nichols (38), Ed Delahanty (49), George Davis (68), Billy Hamilton (75), Jesse Burkett (100)

    1900 (7): Honus Wagner (6), Christy Mathewson (26), Nap Lajoie (29), Sam Crawford (66), Eddie Plank (87), Mordecai Brown (91), Fred Clarke (102)

    1910s (9): Ty Cobb (3), Walter Johnson (7), Tris Speaker (14), Eddie Collins (16), Grover Alexander (18), Pop Lloyd (37), Joe Williams (43), Frank Baker (96), Ed Walsh (105)

    1920s (8): Babe Ruth (1), Rogers Hornsby (12), Oscar Charleston (21), Turkey Stearnes (52), Bullet Rogan (72), Frankie Frisch (85), Harry Heilmann (101), George Sisler (110)

    1930s (20): Lou Gehrig (8), Josh Gibson (15), Satchel Paige (17), Lefty Grove (23), Jimmie Foxx (28), Mel Ott (32), Hank Greenberg (45), Charlie Gehringer (54), Mickey Cochrane (55), Arky Vaughan (57), Carl Hubbell (63), Paul Waner (78), Al Simmons (80), Martin Dihigo (82), Joe Cronin (98), Bill Dickey (99), Gabby Hartnett (108), Mule Suttles (111), Joe Medwick (112), Jud Wilson (114)

    1940s (7): Ted Williams (4), Stan Musial (10), Joe DiMaggio (20), Bob Feller (40), Johnny Mize (50), Luke Appling (92), Buck Leonard (103)

    1950s (9): Mickey Mantle (11), Jackie Robinson (13), Warren Spahn (33), Yogi Berra (34), Eddie Mathews (39), Roy Campanella (64), Duke Snider (67), Robin Roberts (83), Whitey Ford (89)

    1960s (13): Willie Mays (2), Hank Aaron (5), Frank Robinson (19), Roberto Clemente (41), Bob Gibson (42), Sandy Koufax (48), Al Kaline (51), Ernie Banks (65), Harmon Killebrew (73), Juan Marichal (79), Willie McCovey (84), Brooks Robinson (93), Hoyt Wilhelm (104)

    1970s (15): Tom Seaver (24), Joe Morgan (30), Johnny Bench (31), Carl Yastrzemski (44), Steve Carlton (47), Reggie Jackson (56), Nolan Ryan (59), Rod Carew (61), Gaylord Perry (76), Carlton Fisk (77), Phil Niekro (86), Ferguson Jenkins (94), Willie Stargell (95), Jim Palmer (97), Bert Blyleven (106)

    1980s (11): Mike Schmidt (22), Rickey Henderson (27), Cal Ripken (35), George Brett (36), Wade Boggs (53), Robin Yount (60), Tony Gwynn (62), Eddie Murray (71), Gary Carter (88), Dave Winfield (109), Ozzie Smith (115)

    1990s (1): Barry Larkin (107)

    Links to Previous Elections
    Election 1-5
    Election 6-10
    Election 11-15
    Election 16-20
    Election 21- 25
    Election 26-30
    Election 31-35
    Election 36-40 (41)
    Election 42-45
    Election 46-50
    Election 51-55
    Election 56-60
    Election 61-65
    Election 65-70
    Election 71-75
    Election 75-80 (81)
    Election 82-85
    Election 86-90
    Election 91-95
    Election 96-100
    Election 101-105 (106)
    Election 107-110
    Election 111-115
    Last edited by DoubleX; 01-25-2012, 07:50 AM.

  • #2
    1 - Billy Williams
    2 - Zack Wheat
    3 - Amos Rusie
    4 - Max Carey
    5 - Paul Molitor
    6 - Larry Doby
    7 - Roberto Alomar
    8 - Rich Gossage
    9 - Dennis Eckersley
    10 - Ryne Sandberg

    My next batch, in order - Joe Gordon, Dave Winfield, Ron Santo, Goose Goslin, Lou Boudreau

    Comment


    • #3
      I was pretty surprised by Joe Medwick's election. He's one of those players that receives very little discussion on here, which usually means that he's generally accepted as decent though unremarkable Hall of Fame selection. So what suddenly makes him so remarkable as to distinguish him from a number of other OFers (many of whom have received little to no support so far) such as Billy Williams, Goose Goslin, Willie Keeler, Zack Wheat, Ralph Kiner, Hack Wilson, and Kirby Puckett?

      I know a while back there was some trumpeting of Medwick's "fame" credentials, that he was the face of the Gashouse Gang Cardinal teams of the '30s, but I'd say that at least Keeler, Wheat, Wilson, and Puckett, were as big stars, if not bigger than Medwick in their days (Puckett in particular may have been second only to Cal Ripken as one of the faces of baseball during his career). I'm not even sure Medwick was the biggest star on his own team as that distinction probably belongs to Dizzy Dean, who despite his short but great career, is probably one of the most famous personalities in the game's history and probably deserves more support at this point.

      In any event, here's my ballot:

      1) Ron Santo
      2) Roberto Alomar
      3) Larry Doby
      4) Ryne Sandberg
      5) Billy Williams
      6) Cristobal Torriente
      7) Monte Irvin
      8) Bill Terry
      9) Dazzy Vance
      10) Kirby Puckett

      Just missed: Cool Papa Bell, Lou Boudreau (keeps just missing), Dizzy Dean, Goose Goslin, Willie Keeler, Paul Molitor, Pee Wee Reese, Amos Rusie, Rube Waddell, Willie Wells
      Last edited by DoubleX; 01-24-2012, 07:33 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        1. Willie Keeler - 10
        2. Hoss Radbourn - 9
        3. Bill Terry - 8
        4. Paul Molitor - 7
        5. Amos Rusie - 6
        6. Roberto Alomar - 5
        7. Cristobal Torriente - 4
        8. Monte Irvin - 3
        9. Dazzy Vance - 2
        10. Frank Chance - 1

        Santo, Sandberg, Doby, Brock, Waddell should all be in the next groups along with Williams, Goslin

        Comment


        • #5
          1) Dennis Eckersley (10)
          2) Lou Brock (9)
          3) Pud Galvin (8)
          4) Larry Doby (7)
          5) Old Hoss Radbourn (6)
          6) Willie Keeler (5)
          7) Roberto Alomar (4)
          8) Joe McGinnity (3)
          9) Paul Molitor (2)
          10) Ryne Sandberg (1)

          Comment


          • #6
            1. Willie Wells
            2. Monte Irvin
            3. Don Drysdale
            4. Roberto Alomar
            5. Ryne Sandberg
            6. Billy Williams
            7. Dizzy Dean
            8. Goose Gossage
            9. Willie Keller
            10. Charles Radbourn

            Comment


            • #7
              1. Dennis Eckersley
              2. Paul Molitor
              3. Willie Keeler
              4. Roberto Alomar
              5. Willie Wells
              6. Sam Thompson
              7. Ryne Sandberg
              8. Chuck Klein
              9. Bill Terry
              10. Goose Goslin

              Soon : Billy Williams, Ron Santo, Charley Radbourn

              Comment


              • #8
                1. Monte Irvin
                2. Ron Santo
                3. Old Hoss Radbourn
                4. Cristobal Torriente
                5. Joe Gordon
                6. Pee Wee Reese
                7. Hugh Jennings
                8. Don Drysdale
                9. Lou Boudreau
                10. Hal Newhouser
                Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                Comment


                • #9
                  1. Willie Wells (10)
                  2. Cristobal Torriente (9)
                  3. Paul Molitor (8)
                  4. Cool Papa Bell (7)
                  5. Ryne Sandberg (6)
                  6. Roberto Alomar (5)
                  7. Ron Santo (4)
                  8. Rube Waddell (3)
                  9. Amos Rusie (2)
                  10. Lou Boudreau (1)
                  Hal Newhouser
                  Billy Herman
                  Biz Mackey
                  Pee Wee Reese
                  Billy Williams
                  Louis Santop
                  Old Hoss Radbourn
                  Pete Hill
                  Monte Irvin
                  Dennis Eckersley
                  http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploa...-showalter.gif

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'm guessing by what I see that the 1930s was baseball's greatest decade?
                    http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploa...-showalter.gif

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      1. Cool Papa Bell
                      2. Larry Doby
                      3. Monte Irvin
                      4. Billy Williams
                      5. Lou Brock
                      6. Ryne Sandberg
                      7. Don Drysdale
                      8. Ron Santo
                      9. Paul Molitor
                      10. Dennis Eckersley
                      3 6 10 21 29 31 35 41 42 44 47

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        1. Paul Molitor
                        2. Billy Williams
                        3. Dizzy Dean
                        4. Ron Santo
                        5. Bill Terry
                        6. Lou Brock
                        7. Charles Radbourn
                        8. Sam Thompson
                        9. Willie Keeler
                        10. Roberto Alomar
                        "It ain't braggin' if you can do it." Dizzy Dean

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I've been out of town for a week and my laptop broke down, so I haven't been able to participate. I'll try to get back to this and some other threads later today.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DoubleX View Post
                            I was pretty surprised by Joe Medwick's election. He's one of those players that receives very little discussion on here, which usually means that he's generally accepted as decent though unremarkable Hall of Fame selection. So what suddenly makes him so remarkable as to distinguish him from a number of other OFers (many of whom have received little to no support so far) such as Billy Williams, Goose Goslin, Willie Keeler, Zack Wheat, Ralph Kiner, Hack Wilson, and Kirby Puckett?

                            I know a while back there was some trumpeting of Medwick's "fame" credentials, that he was the face of the Gashouse Gang Cardinal teams of the '30s, but I'd say that at least Keeler, Wheat, Wilson, and Puckett, were as big stars, if not bigger than Medwick in their days (Puckett in particular may have been second only to Cal Ripken as one of the faces of baseball during his career). I'm not even sure Medwick was the biggest star on his own team as that distinction probably belongs to Dizzy Dean, who despite his short but great career, is probably one of the most famous personalities in the game's history and probably deserves more support at this point.
                            Dizzy Dean was the biggest star of that team so far as I know. I also have Medwick in a group of corner outfielders with some of them elected (Winfield, O'Rourke) and some not (Williams, Wheat). Being the 10th rated left fielder isn't much of a stretch. He may not be favored by WAR (55.8 - respectable) but he is 29th all time in Gray Ink and has a fabled Triple Crown under his belt (1937).

                            We're in that area now where we should mention the people we don't talk about much, to make sure they finish ahead of those we consider controversial. Guys like Billy Herman, Goose Goslin and Amos Rusie.

                            The one guy I see that is gaining momentum, that may become a controversial selection this early is Lou Brock. There are some people at BBF that believe he is a solid HOFer and others that believe he should not be in Cooperstown at all. I've personally got him way down the list (somewhere around 180 I think) but believe he is, barely, a deserving member.
                            Last edited by J W; 01-26-2012, 11:52 AM.
                            http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploa...-showalter.gif

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by J W View Post
                              The one guy I see that is gaining momentum, that may become a controversial selection this early is Lou Brock. There are some people at BBF that believe he is a solid HOFer and others that believe he should not be in Cooperstown at all. I've personally got him way down the list (somewhere around 180 I think) but believe he is, barely, a deserving member.
                              I was also thinking about Brock's gains while tabulating the results from the last round. Brock doesn't look that great by the advanced stats, but in this project, he has some subjective things going in his favor, namely all those stolen bases, the 3000 hits, and some extra notoriety for being the good part of what is often viewed as one of the worst trades in history.

                              For me though, I'm not sure where that gets him. In LF, I believe we have to get through at least Williams, Goslin, and Wheat before Brock would hit my radar.

                              I'd also still like to hear from Medwick supporters on what distinguishes him from a tight group of OFers. I may be missing something about Medwick, but 112 feels high for me here.

                              EDIT: Since you mentioned the need to speak up for people that don't get discussed much, one player I think is always under the radar is Stan Coveleski. Coveleski had a really good career. He had a 128 OPS+ and posted a 54 WAR in what was something of medium-sized career (3000 innings). He was also regularly among the league leaders, twice leading in ERA, seven times in the top 6, twice led in ERA, and again seven times in the top 6, led in pitching WAR one season with six top three finishes. The guy was consistently among the best pitchers in the league and had his very best seasons after the transition to the lively ball (though, it should be noted that he was a master of the spitball and was grandfathered in).
                              Last edited by DoubleX; 01-27-2012, 07:47 AM.

                              Comment

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