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BBF franchise HOF, 2nd chance round--Cubs

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  • BBF franchise HOF, 2nd chance round--Cubs

    This will be the second second chance round election. What we'll do for the second chance election is a Yes/No vote requiring the greater of 6 or 75% of the votes to induct. The election will be limited to the listed nominees. The elections will only be open for a week--but there will be at least three or four days for discussion and new nominations. You can abstain from an entire ballot (player or contributor), but if you vote in that portion of the ballot, only the guys you expressly vote yes for get credit for a positive vote. The others in that section of the ballot will be considered to have gotten a "no" vote. There will be no limits on how many nominees you can vote for . I will also provide the nomination discussions for the nominees. The deadline for suggesting nominees is twelve hours before the election begins.


    In this case, the election will not begin until Saturday, April 7 at 7 am EDT, and will end at 7 am EDT April 14. Nominations close 12 hours before the election begins, or April 6 at 7 pm EDT. Ballots not cast within the stated election time frame will not count.


    The Cubs have the following already inducted:
    - Inducted Players (15): Pete Alexander, Cap Anson, Ernie Banks, Mordecai Brown, Frank Chance, Bill Dahlen, Johnny Evers, Mark Grace, Stan Hack, Gabby Hartnett, Fergie Jenkins, Ryne Sandberg, Ron Santo, Joe Tinker, Billy Williams
    - Inducted Contributors (5): Harry Caray, Charlie Grimm, William Hulbert, Al Spalding, Phillip Wrigley

    The list of nominees at present is:

    Players
    Phil Cavaretta
    John Clarkson
    Andre Dawson
    George Gore
    Clark Griffith
    Billy Herman
    King Kelly
    Don Kessinger
    Johnny Kling
    Greg Maddux
    Bill Nicholson
    Amdy Pafko
    Claude Passeau
    Ed Reulbach
    Rick Reuschel
    Charlie Root
    Bob Rush
    Jimmy Ryan
    Sammy Sosa
    Rick Sutcliffe
    Bruce Sutter
    Hippo Vaughn
    Ned Williamson
    Hack Wilson

    Contributors

    Franklin P. Adams
    Leo Durocher
    Joe McCarthy
    Frank Selee
    Last edited by jalbright; 04-06-2012, 07:40 PM.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  • #2
    George Gore was excellent as a Cub
    He was in the top 7 in WAR among position players 6 times for the team;
    He was in the top 7 in BA 5 times for the team;
    He was in the top 6 in OBP 7 times for the team;
    He was in the top 10 in slugging percentage 6 times for the team;
    He was twice in the top 10 in RBI for the team;
    He was 7 times in the 10 in runs scored for the team;
    He was the best OF in the majors in WAR 4 times (1880, 1882, 1883, and 1885);
    He was the second best OF in the majors in WAR twice (1881 and 1886); and
    He was the sixth best OF in the majors in WAR in 1884, but 4th best in the NL.
    So, he was good enough to be a starting all-star 6 times with the Cubs and a reserve all star another time.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

    Comment


    • #3
      Billy Herman played 10 years for the Cubs, his first 10, and many of his best
      He was a 7 time all star for the franchise;
      He was mentioned in the MVP voting 5 times for the franchise;
      He was in the top 10 in WAR among the position players 4 times for the franchise;
      He was in the top 10 in runs scored 6 times for the franchise;
      He was best in range factor in 2B four time for the franchise and second three times;
      He was the best 2B in WAR in the NL 5 times (1932 and 1934-37);
      He was the second best 2B in WAR in the NL 3 times (1938-1940)

      So, you've got a darned good fielding 2B who can also hit well. Unsurprisingly, he was consistently all-star quality. He's belongs among the all-time Cubs.
      Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
      Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
      A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

      Comment


      • #4
        King Kelly was.an early star for the Cubs.
        He was in the top 6 in WAR among position players 4 times for the team;
        He was in the top 2 in batting average 5 times for the team;
        He was in the top 10 in OBP 5 times for the team;
        He was in the top 10 in slugging percentage 6 times for the team;
        He was in the top 6 in runs scored 7 times for the team; and
        He was in the top 10 in RBI 7 times for the team.

        He deserves enshrinement among the Cubs.
        Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
        Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
        A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

        Comment


        • #5
          Clark Griffith with the Cubs
          He was in the top 10 in WAR among P five times for the team;
          He was in the top 10 in ERA three times for the team;
          He was in the top 10 in wins five times for the team;
          He was in the top 6 in W/L percentage 4 times for the team; and
          He was in the top 10 in complete games 5 times for the team.
          Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
          Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
          A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post
            These are all excellent candidates who are glaring oversights. I plan on making a case for Johnny Kling who I also see as a glaring omission for the Chicago Cubs when I have the time. They were the one team in this project who definitely got short changed.
            I have at least the start of the case for Kling, I think:
            He was the best catcher in WAR in the majors 1902 and 1903, the second best (to Bresnahan each time) in 1906, 1907, and 1908, and 4th best (but 3rd in the NL) in 1910. The Cubs were in probably their best period from 1906-1910, and this guy was a big part of it.

            jjpm74 adds this for him:
            Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post
            I'm surprised that people are not voting for Johnny Kling at this point:

            http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...lingjo01.shtml

            Kling was one of the cornerstones of 4 pennants in the most dominant era in the team's long history
            Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
            Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
            A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

            Comment


            • #7
              DoubleX gave us this case on behalf of Jimmy Ryan of the Cubs:
              Originally posted by DoubleX View Post
              I suspect Jimmy Ryan may be a forgotten man here, but his 15 seasons in centerfield for the Cubs with a 125 OPS+ merits a good look, IMO.
              I think we can bolster his case a bit by referring to the Cub leader lists:
              2d most runs scored;
              8th most hits;
              9th most total bases;
              9th most RBI;
              3d most steals;
              10th most runs created; and
              9th most extra base hits.
              Last edited by jalbright; 03-30-2012, 01:39 PM.
              Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
              Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
              A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

              Comment


              • #8
                Paul Wendt gave us this for Frank Selee as a contributor with the Cubs:

                Originally posted by Paul Wendt View Post
                Certainly I will vote for Frank Selee if i cast a ballot. Who better? He was the architect of a great team, one of "only" two great teams that played more than a season or two for this club. I know that by reputation but also by inference from reading contemporary news. Among others the team had lost Clark Griffith to the AL, the only plausible captain/manager after Anson. None of the remaining players were important recruiters or scouts. Both Tom Loftus (before the 1901 losses) and Frank Selee were hired as professional managers to rebuild the team.
                Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                Comment


                • #9
                  The sixth and final guy I'm adding who has already gotten 50% of the vote and thus doesn't need a second is Hippo Vaughn of the Cubs.

                  Vaughn also is well represented in the Cub career pitching leader boards:

                  10th in career pitching WAR;
                  9th in career ERA;
                  8th in career wins;
                  8th in career strikeouts;
                  8th in career IP; and
                  2d in career shutouts.

                  He also had many fine individual seasons:

                  Five times in the top 5 of pitching WAR (1 first);
                  Five times in the top 10 in ERA (1 first);
                  7 times in the top 10 in wins;
                  4 times in the top 10 in win/loss percentage;
                  7 times in the top 10 in K/ 9 IP (two firsts);
                  6 times in the top 10 in IP (two firsts);
                  7 times in the top 10 in strikeouts (two firsts);
                  7 times in the top 10 in complete games; and
                  8 times in the top 10 in shutouts.

                  That certainly seems to me to be plenty to justify his inclusion in the Cub franchise Hall.
                  Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                  Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                  A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'll finish with another Cub. This guy is a classic high peak, relatively short term guy--Hack Wilson. Hack wasn't much when he wasn't a Cub, but in those years, he was a monster.

                    We all know about the RBI record, but that's only a part of the story.

                    In his six seasons with the franchise, Hack was:
                    in the top 10 among position players in WAR five times, 2 seconds, a third and a fourth among them;
                    in the top 10 in OBP five times;
                    in the top 6 in slugging five times;
                    in the top 5 in OPS+ five times;
                    in the top 10 in runs scored four times;
                    in the top 10 in homers six times, 4 of them firsts and another a third;
                    in the top 3 in RBI five times, 2 of them firsts and two more seconds; and
                    in the top 10 in walks drawn six times, two of them firsts.

                    In short, for those six years he was clearly one of the elite. That should be enough to get him into the Cub franchise Hall.
                    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Here's a few noms which I'm surprised haven't made the list:

                      Sammy Sosa: 60.0 WAR (5th in franchise history), 545 HR (1st), 139 OPS+ (tied for 9th)
                      Rick Reuschel: 46.8 pWAR (2nd in franchise history), 1367 SO (5th), 113 ERA+ (tied for 31st)
                      Charlie Root: 38.6 pWAR (4th in franchise history), 1432 SO (4th), 112 ERA+ (tied for 34th)
                      Last edited by Nerdlinger; 03-30-2012, 05:58 PM.
                      *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by DJC View Post
                        Here's a few noms which I'm surprised haven't made the list:

                        Sammy Sosa: 60.0 WAR (5th in franchise history), 545 HR (1st), 139 OPS+ (tied for 9th)
                        Rick Reuschel: 46.8 pWAR (2nd in franchise history), 1367 SO (5th), 113 ERA+ (tied for 31st)
                        Charlie Root: 38.6 pWAR (4th in franchise history), 1432 SO (4th), 112 ERA+ (tied for 34th)
                        I despise Sammy Sosa (sorry) but it's clear he should be on the nomination list. Reuschel and Root are also worthy candidates. Good work, DJC. I hope they will be added.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I have done all the other cases, and Sosa in particular was one I chose not to do based on my perception that it wouldn't be a fruitful effort. After a while, I do get tired. The cases DJC presented are just enough to merit inclusion, though I'd suggest if you really want them elected, you'll need more.
                          Last edited by jalbright; 03-30-2012, 06:25 PM.
                          Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                          Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                          A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Cub cases...

                            Phil Cavarretta
                            1945 NL MVP
                            1945 NL Batting Title
                            Received MVP votes 6 straight years (1943-1948), plus again in 1951.
                            3 time AS

                            Cub career records:
                            5th in Triples
                            6th in Games
                            7th in Walks
                            10th in PAs, ABs, Runs, Hits, RBIs, Extra Base Hits, Times on Base, Runs Produced
                            11th in Doubles, Runs Created, Total Bases

                            Overall, was very good in the post-season.
                            1935 .125/.125/.125
                            1938 .462/.462/.538
                            1945 .423/.500/.615 - including 11 hits, 5 RBIs
                            3 Yrs (3 Series) .317/.358/.413 - including 20 hits

                            Player/Manager from 1951-1953


                            John Clarkson
                            Led league twice in Wins, Strikeouts, and pWAR (1885 & 1887 all instances)

                            Cub seasonal records :
                            1st in Shutouts
                            1st & 2nd in pWAR
                            1st, 6th, & 8th in Wins
                            1st & 7th in Innings Pitched
                            1st & 8th in Complete Games
                            2nd & 3rd in Strikeouts

                            Cub career records :
                            5th in ERA+ (100 IP min.)
                            6th in Complete Games
                            7th in pWAR
                            10th in Wins

                            Impressive exhibition postseasons :
                            1885 & 1886
                            6 Starts
                            47.0 IPs
                            43 Strikeouts
                            1.72 ERA
                            1.128 WHIP

                            On July 27, 1885, he pitched a no-hitter.

                            Inducted into the Hall of Fame by Veteran's Committee as Player in 1963.


                            Andre Dawson
                            1987 NL MVP
                            1987 NL HR and RBI leader
                            5 straight ASGs (1987-1991), starting 4 of the 5
                            2 Gold Gloves (1987-1988)
                            Silver Slugger (1987)

                            Inducted into the Hall of Fame by BBWAA as Player in 2010.


                            Greg Maddux
                            1992 NL CY, 3rd place in 1989
                            1992 NL TSN Pitcher of the Year
                            2 ASGs (1988, 1992)
                            3 Gold Gloves (1990-1992)

                            Lead league in Wins, ERA+, Innings Pitched in 1992.

                            Cub career records:
                            11th in pWAR with 31.4


                            Rick Sutcliffe
                            1984 NL CY, 2nd place in 1987 with 46% of the share and missed sharing the CY by possibly 1 point.
                            4th in NL MVP in 1984
                            1984 & 1987 NL TSN Pitcher of the Year
                            1987 ML Lou Gehrig Memorial Award
                            1987 ML Roberto Clemente Award
                            2 time AS (1987,1989)

                            Led league in Winning % (1984) & Wins (1987).

                            Sutcliffe's 1984 Winning % of .941 is best in Cubs history.

                            Postseason batting heroics :
                            1984 NL NLCS .500/.500/1.000 - with 3 Hits, 1 HR
                            1989 NL NLCS .500/.500/1.000
                            2 Yrs (2 Series) .500/.500/1.000 - with 4 Hits, 1 Double, 1 HR


                            Bruce Sutter
                            1979 NL CY
                            1979 NL Rolaids Relief
                            Received MVP votes 3 straight years (1977-1979)
                            4 straight ASGs (1977-1980), with an AS record of 2-0, 1 Save, 6 Ks in 5.2 IPs

                            Led league in Saves 2 years straight (1979-1980).
                            In 1979, Sutter saved 37 games for the Cubs, tying the NL record held at the time.

                            Cub career records :
                            1st in ERA+ for all pitchers (100 IP min.), ERA for relievers (100 IP min.)
                            2nd in Saves, pWAR for relievers, WHIP for relievers (100 IP min.), H/9 for all pitchers (100 IP min.)
                            3rd in Games Finished
                            5th in K/BB for relievers (100 IP min.)

                            Inducted into the Hall of Fame by BBWAA as Player in 2006.


                            ---------------------------------------------------------------------
                            Franklin P Adams
                            Adams wrote the poem Baseball's Sad Lexicon, a tribute to the Chicago Cubs double play combination of "Tinker to Evers to Chance"


                            Leo Durocher
                            Although a controversial manager, under Durocher, the Cubs went from a cellar team to a 3rd place winning team and stayed a winning team for several more years. The season following his departure, the Cubs sank to 5th place and were again a losing team.
                            Rk Year Age Tm Lg G W L W-L%Finish
                            18 1966 60 Chicago Cubs NL 162 59 103 .364 10
                            19 1967 61 Chicago Cubs NL 162 87 74 .540 3
                            20 1968 62 Chicago Cubs NL 163 84 78 .519 3
                            21 1969 63 Chicago Cubs NL 163 92 70 .568 2
                            22 1970 64 Chicago Cubs NL 162 84 78 .519 2
                            23 1971 65 Chicago Cubs NL 162 83 79 .512 4
                            24 1972 66 Chicago Cubs NL 91 46 44 .511 2

                            Inducted into the Hall of Fame by Veteran's Committee as Manager in 1994.
                            Last edited by dgarza; 03-30-2012, 10:23 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Cavaretta deserves a second look and this is one of the franchises that ended prematurely. Consider this a second.

                              Comment

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