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Indians BBF HOF second chance election

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  • #1

    Indians BBF HOF second chance election

    This will be one of three second chance round elections this week. What we'll do for the second chance election is a Yes/No vote requiring the greater of 6 or 75% of the votes to induct. The election will be limited to the listed nominees. The elections will only be open for a week--but there will be at least three or four days for discussion and new nominations. You can abstain from an entire ballot (player or contributor), but if you vote in that portion of the ballot, only the guys you expressly vote yes for get credit for a positive vote. The others in that section of the ballot will be considered to have gotten a "no" vote. There will be no limits on how many nominees you can vote for . I will also provide the nomination discussions for the nominees. The deadline for suggesting nominees is twelve hours before the election begins.

    In this case, the election will not begin until Saturday, May 5 at 7 am EDT, and will end at 7 am EDT May 12. Nominations close 12 hours before the election begins, or May 11 at 7 pm EDT. Ballots not cast within the stated election time frame will not count.

    The Indians have the following already inducted:

    - Inducted Players (22): Earl Averill, Bobby Avila, Albert Belle, Lou Boudreau, Rocky Colavito, Stan Coveleski, Larry Doby, Bob Feller, Elmer Flick, Mel Harder, Addie Joss, Ken Keltner, Napoleon Lajoie, Bob Lemon, Kenny Lofton, Sam McDowell, Gaylord Perry, Manny Ramirez, Al Rosen, Joe Sewell, Tris Speaker, Early Wynn

    - Inducted Contributors (4): Mike Hargrove, John Hart, Al Lopez, Bill Veeck


    The list of nominees at present is:

    Players
    Roberto Alomar
    Sandy Alomar Jr.
    Carlos Baerga
    Bill Bradley
    Ray Chapman
    Wes Ferrell
    Mike Garcia
    Joe Gordon
    Jeff Heath
    Joe Jackson
    Charlie Jamieson
    Charles Nagy
    Andre Thornton
    Luis Tiant
    Hal Trosky
    Terry Turner

    Contributors
    Herb Score
    Charles Somers
    Last edited by jalbright; 05-05-2012, 01:15 PM.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Wes Ferrell was at least arguably at his best while an Indian.

    He was in the top 10 in WAR 4 times for the club;
    In 1939-32 he had 2d, 3d, 4th and 6th place finishes in WAR among P;
    He was in the top 10 in ERA 4 times for the club;
    He was in the top 10 in W/L percentage 4 times for the club;
    He was in the top 4 in wins 4 times for the club;
    He was in the top 10 in strikeouts per nine IP three times for the club;
    He was in the top 10 in complete games five times for the club;
    He was in the top 4 in IP three times for the club; and
    He was in the top 10 in strikeouts 4 times for the club.

    I might add that during his time with the Indians, he had the 7th most WAR among pitchers in the majors.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

    Comment

    • #3
      DoubleX made this argument for Herb Score as a contributor for the Indians:
      Noteworthy for contributions as a player and long-time broadcaster
      Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
      Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
      A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

      Comment

      • #4
        I'll also nominate Ray Chapman for the Indians. He spent his whole career with the Tribe, and received a fatal wound from a beaning while wearing their uniform. During the time of his career, 1912-1920, he has the most WAR of any shortstop in the majors. In single season terms, he was the WAR leader among AL shortstops in 1915, 1917, 1918, and 1920 (despite dying with about a month to go in the season), and he was second among AL shortstops in 1919. He belongs in the Indian HOF.
        Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
        Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
        A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

        Comment

        • #5
          Bill Bradley of the Indians is another who has gotten at least 50% of the vote, and thus doesn't need a second.

          He was with the franchise when it began in 1901, and was the 3rd best 3B in WAR in the majors that year. In 02-04, he was the best 3B by WAR in the game, and was twice the second best player in his league, and 4th the other. In 05, he was the second best 3B in the game by WAR, and then in 06 he was the third best 3B in the game that year, but the best in the AL, again all by WAR. He didn't have a very good year in 07, but rebounded in 08 to be the second best 3B in the AL by WAR. Seven years of all-star quality third base play in eight years is quite an accomplishment, and it should be enough to get him into the Indian franchise HOF.
          Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
          Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
          A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

          Comment

          • #6
            Joe Jackson got 50% for the Indians, so doesn't need a second for that franchise. He's another high peak, sort of short time guy for a franchise.

            Just in his time with the Tribe:

            Among position players, he was in the top 10 in WAR four times, three of them being a 2d, a 3d and a 4th;
            He was in the top 4 in average 4 times, three of them seconds;
            He was in the top 4 in OBP four times, one of them a first and two more seconds;
            Counting 1915, when he was traded in August from the Indians, he was in the top 4 in slugging 5 times, one a first and two more seconds;
            He was in the top three in runs scored three times;
            He was in the top 10 in RBI four times;
            He was twice in the top 10 in steals; and
            He was in the top 5 in OPS+ five times.

            Really, he was the best player in the game not named Ty Cobb for those years. He was an honest player as an Indian, and I think all that merits recognition.
            Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
            Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
            A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

            Comment

            • #7
              Mike Garcia was a fine pitcher for the Indians, and at least 50% of the voters supported his candidacy, so no second is needed.

              Garcia is well represented in the Tribe's career pitching leaderboard:
              8th in career WAR;
              9th in career wins;
              9th in career IP;
              9th in career K; and
              5th in career shutouts.

              He had quite a few individual seasons among the best pitchers in the AL:
              Six times he was in the top 10 in pitching WAR;
              Five times he was in the top 10 in ERA (2 titles);
              Five times he was in the top 10 in won/loss percentage;
              Five times he was in the top 10 in WHIP;
              Five times he was in the top 10 in K/9 IP;
              Four times he was in the top 10 in IP;
              Five times he was in the top 10 in strikeouts; and
              Five times he was in the top 10 in shutouts.

              Seems to me that should be enough to get him into the Indian franchise HOF.
              Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
              Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
              A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

              Comment

              • #8
                Terry Turner
                31.0 WAR/pos (13th in franchise history)
                23.7 oWAR (20th)
                7.3 dWAR (4th)
                1619 G (1st)
                5787 AB (3rd)
                6512 PA (7th)
                692 R (14th)
                1472 H (10th)
                1854 TB (16th)
                204 2B (22nd)
                77 3B (9th)
                521 RBI (24th)
                430 BB (tied for 23rd)
                254 SB (3rd)
                1183 1B (7th)
                1936 TOB (12th)

                Hal Trosky
                26.6 WAR/pos (20th in franchise history)
                28.6 oWAR (16th)
                0.313 BA (12th)
                0.379 OBP (21st)
                0.551 SLG (4th)
                0.930 OPS (7th)
                1124 G (21st)
                4365 AB (15th)
                4854 PA (19th)
                758 R (11th)
                1365 H (11th)
                2406 TB (6th)
                287 2B (9th)
                53 TB (18th)
                216 HR (5th)
                911 RBI (4th)
                449 BB (21st)
                809 1B (20th)
                135 OPS+ (16th)
                556 XBH (4th)
                1829 TOB (14th)
                20.2 AB/HR (12th)

                Charlie Jamieson
                21.4 WAR/pos (26th in franchise history)
                0.316 BA (11th)
                0.388 OBP (13th)
                1483 G (9th)
                5551 AB (8th)
                6358 PA (8th)
                942 R (4th)
                1753 H (5th)
                2251 TB (9th)
                296 2B (7th)
                74 3B (tied for 10th)
                627 BB (9th)
                107 SB (22nd)
                1365 1B (2nd)
                388 XBH (17th)
                2411 TOB (6th)

                Luis Tiant
                23.0 pWAR (14th in franchise history)
                2.84 ERA (16th)
                75 W (tied for 23rd)
                1.143 WHIP (7th)
                7.043 H/9 (4th)
                7.808 SO/9 (3rd)
                1200 IP (25th)
                1041 SO (10th)
                160 GS (tied for 22nd)
                63 CG (tied for 23rd)
                21 SHO (9th)
                2.41 SO/BB (11th)
                120 ERA+ (12th)
                *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

                Comment

                • #9
                  I'll second all of DJC's above nominees if they need seconding.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    I've guaranteed the second for any reasonable argument made by anyone other than myself, and there's no question his arguments meet that standard. My own arguments only need a second if the guy didn't get 50% or more of the vote (minimum 3 votes for).
                    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Roberto Alomar
                      Indians stats :
                      .323/.405/.515
                      134 OPS+
                      20.6 WAR - Cleveland was the team he had the most for - Alomar is in the Blue Jays HOF, but he was better with the Indians, so I think he should be there as well
                      106 Stolen Bases - 86.9%

                      According to WAR, best 2 seasons of career came in Cleveland (1999, 7.9 & 2001, 7.8)

                      All-Star Games
                      1999 (2B)
                      2000 (2B)
                      2001 *

                      Gold Gloves
                      1999 AL (2B)
                      2000 AL (2B)
                      2001 AL (2B)

                      Silver Sluggers
                      1999 AL (2B)
                      2000 AL (2B)

                      MVP (yr lg (rk, shr))
                      1999 AL (3, 57%)
                      2001 AL (4, 42%)

                      Lead League in :
                      Runs (1999)
                      Sac. Flies (1999)
                      Stolen Base % (2000)
                      Assists at 2B (2000)
                      Fielding % at 2B (1999,2001)

                      Cleveland Career 2B Team Records (400 game min.) :
                      1st in OBP, SLG
                      2nd in OPS+, AVG, ISO, SB%

                      Batted .368/.409/.579 in the 1999 ALDS.

                      WAR does more than suggest Alomar was the best 2B in the majors from 1999-2001 :
                      Code:
                                                                  
Rk              Player WAR/pos   G From   To
1       Roberto Alomar    20.6 471 1999 2001
2            Jeff Kent    16.7 456 1999 2001
3      Edgardo Alfonzo    13.4 432 1999 2001
4        Randy Velarde    10.3 371 1999 2001
5         Craig Biggio     9.5 416 1999 2001
                      Inducted into the Hall of Fame by BBWAA as Player in 2011.
                      Last edited by dgarza; 05-03-2012, 08:01 PM.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Sandy Alomar Jr
                        1990 AL Rookie of the Year

                        All-Star Games
                        1990 (C) - first rookie catcher to start an All-Star game
                        1991 (C)
                        1992 (C)
                        1996 *
                        1997 *
                        1998 *

                        Gold Gloves
                        1990 AL (C)

                        1997 ML AS MVP - hitting a game-deciding two-run home run

                        World Series stats :
                        Code:
                                                                                                                                          
Year   Age  Tm Lg Series Opp Rslt  G PA AB R  H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO   BA  OBP  SLG   OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB
1995    29 CLE AL     WS ATL    L  5 15 15 0  3  2  0  0   1  0  0  0  2 .200 .200 .333  .533  5   0   0  0  0   0
1997    31 CLE AL     WS FLA    L  7 32 30 5 11  1  0  2  10  0  0  2  3 .367 .406 .600 1.006 18   2   0  0  0   1
2 WS                              12 47 45 5 14  3  0  2  11  0  0  2  5 .311 .340 .511  .852 23   2   0  0  0   1
                        Put together a 30-game hitting streak (one short of Nap Lajoie's Indians record and four short of his former teammate Benito Santiago's record for catchers).

                        First base coach for the Cleveland Indians.
                        Bench coach for the Cleveland Indians.

                        On August 1, 2009, the Cleveland Indians inducted Sandy Alomar Jr. to their Hall of Fame.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Charles Somers
                          Charles Somers was the founding owner of the Cleveland franchise in the American League.
                          The franchise was the first to establish a farm system, when Somers acquired minor league teams in Waterbury, CT, Toledo, OH, Ironton, OH, New Orleans, LA and Portland, OR.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            About 7 hours left for nominations.
                            Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                            Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                            A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Charles Nagy
                              Perhaps not the most flashy pitcher, but Nagy is the winningest pitcher for the Indians in the last 60 years.

                              Record :
                              129-105
                              .551 %

                              All-Star Games
                              1992 *
                              1996 (P)
                              1999

                              6x 15-game winner :
                              Code:
                                                                                     
Rk                     Yrs From   To                Age
1           Bob Feller  10 1938 1951 19-32 Ind. Seasons
2            Bob Lemon   9 1948 1956 27-35 Ind. Seasons
3           Mel Harder   8 1932 1939 22-29 Ind. Seasons
4       Stan Coveleski   8 1916 1924 26-34 Ind. Seasons
5           Early Wynn   7 1950 1956 30-36 Ind. Seasons
[B]6         Charles Nagy   6 1992 1999 25-32 Ind. Seasons[/B]
7           Addie Joss   6 1902 1908 22-28 Ind. Seasons
                              Franchise career team records :
                              6th in Starts, Strikeouts
                              10th in Wins
                              11th in Innings

                              Comment

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