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Blue Jays second chance election, BBF franchise HOF project

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  • Blue Jays second chance election, BBF franchise HOF project

    This will be one of three second chance round elections this week. What we'll do for the second chance election is a Yes/No vote requiring the greater of 6 or 75% of the votes to induct. The election will be limited to the listed nominees. The elections will only be open for a week--but there will be at least three or four days for discussion and new nominations. You can abstain from an entire ballot (player or contributor), but if you vote in that portion of the ballot, only the guys you expressly vote yes for get credit for a positive vote. The others in that section of the ballot will be considered to have gotten a "no" vote. There will be no limits on how many nominees you can vote for . I will also provide the nomination discussions for the nominees. The deadline for suggesting nominees is twelve hours before the election begins.

    In this case, the election will not begin until Saturday, May 19 at 7 am EDT, and will end at 7 am EDT May 26. Nominations close 43 hours before the election begins, or May 17 at noon EDT. Ballots not cast within the stated election time frame will not count.


    I'm modifying the time for how long I'll accept nominations. Nominations will close at noon on Thursday rather than 7 pm Friday. Among the reasons for this are situations like yesterday when I'm away, the day before is a real pain in the rump. Another reason is that if I decide to go to requiring seconds for some nominations, I'll need some additional time for those seconds, and this move provides that.

    The Blue Jays have the following already inducted:
    Inducted Players (9 ): Roberto Alomar, Jesse Barfield, Joe Carter, Carlos Delgado, Tony Fernandez, Tom Henke, Jimmy Key, John Olerud, Dave Stieb

    Inducted Contributors ( 2): Cito Gaston, Pat Gillick


    The list of nominees at present is:

    Players
    George Bell
    Jim Clancy
    Roger Clemens
    Juan Guzman
    Pat Hentgen
    Fred McGriff
    Lloyd Moseby
    Devon White

    Contributors
    Bobby Cox
    Last edited by jalbright; 05-17-2012, 09:40 AM.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  • #2
    dgarza nominates Lloyd Moseby as a second chance candidate for the Blue Jays. I suspect I'll be voting for him as well.

    Originally posted by dgarza View Post
    Case for...

    Lloyd Moseby
    Played for the Blue Jays for the entire '80s (1980-1989)
    1986 All Star
    1983 Silver Slugger

    Team Career Records :
    1st in Stolen Bases
    2nd in Triples, Walks
    3rd in Runs, Runs Produced, WAR Runs Baserunning
    4th in Hits, Doubles, Runs Created, Extra Base Hits, Times on Base
    5th in RBIs, Total Bases, WAR
    6th in HRs

    Led AL in Triples in 1984. 3rd in AL Triples in the 1980s.
    Stole 30+ Bases 5 years straight (1984-1988). No other Blue Jay ever stole 30+ bases 5 times, much less 5 times in a row. 5th in AL Stolen Bases in the 1980s.

    Moseby served as the Blue Jays' first base coach in 1998 and 1999.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

    Comment


    • #3
      dgarza provides this nomination of George Bell:

      Originally posted by dgarza View Post
      George Bell
      George Bell was part of the impressive Blue Jay OF of the 80s, which also included Moseby and Barfield.

      Bell won several awards as a Blue Jay.
      2x All Star (1987,1990) Starting LF in 1987.
      3x Silver Slugger (1985,1986,1987).
      1987 AL MVP (4th in 1986 & 1989).
      1987 Sporting News Major League Players of the Year

      1987 AL RBI champ

      BJ Career Records :
      3rd in RBIs
      4th in HRs, SLG (500 game min.)
      5th in Runs, Hits

      On April 4, 1988 Bell became the first player in the Major Leagues to hit three home runs on an opening day.

      George Bell is currently enshrined in the upper deck of the Rogers Centre's Level of Excellence, devoted to players and personnel who have made a significant impact as members of the Toronto Blue Jays.
      Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
      Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
      A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

      Comment


      • #4
        dgarza presents this case for Devon White for the Blue Jays:

        Originally posted by dgarza View Post
        Devon White
        White played Cf for the Blues Jays from 1991-1995.
        Each one of those seasons he was awarded a Gold Glove, that's 5 years straight.
        He was also an All Star in 1993.

        Blue Jay all time Records :
        1st in SB % - 84.564%
        6th in Stolen Bases
        8th in WAR

        White was part of Toronto's back-to-back Championship teams of 92-93.
        His Blue Jay post-season performance is a big plus for his cause:
        .336/.397/.500/.897
        Runs - 16
        Hits - 41
        Doubles - 8
        Triples - 3
        HRs - 2
        RBIs - 13
        BBs - 12
        from Wikipedia:
        In Game 3 of the 1992 World Series against the Atlanta Braves, White was the central part of one of the most famous plays in World Series history. With David Justice batting and runners on first and second base, Justice hit a fly ball which White chased down and caught while jumping into the wall. White then threw the ball to second baseman Roberto Alomar who threw to John Olerud at first to try to double up Terry Pendleton, but Pendleton had already been called out for running past Deion Sanders. Olerud promptly threw it to Kelly Gruber who chased down Sanders, diving and clipping him on the heel with his glove. However the umpire did not see the tag, and called Sanders safe, which cost the Jays the second triple play in World Series history.[2] After the game, the umpire watched the replay and admitted he missed the call. Many people who saw White's famous catch and throw have positively compared it to Willie Mays' famous catch in Game 1 of the 1954 World Series, often claiming that White's effort was more impressive. In Game 6 of the Series, White was one of the two runs that scored on Dave Winfield's 11th-inning double to left field, which eventually won the World Championship for the Blue Jays.

        From 1991-1995, Devon White was one of the best CFers in all of baseball :
        Code:
                                                  
        Rk            Player WAR/pos   G From   To
        1        Ken Griffey    31.3 635 1991 1995
        2       Kenny Lofton    24.7 546 1991 1995
        3        Devon White    19.8 656 1991 1995
        4    Marquis Grissom    17.9 713 1991 1995
        5      Kirby Puckett    16.9 713 1991 1995
        Seasonal WAR, 5.0+, 1991-1995 :
        Code:
                                         
        Rk                  Yrs From   To
        1       Ken Griffey   4 1991 1994
        2       Devon White   3 1991 1993
        3      Kenny Lofton   3 1992 1994
        4   Bernie Williams   1 1995 1995
        5       Jim Edmonds   1 1995 1995
        6     Lance Johnson   1 1993 1993
        7     Kirby Puckett   1 1992 1992
        8    Dave Henderson   1 1991 1991

        From 1991-1995, Devon White was one of the best Blues Jays, arguments can be made for the best Blue Jay :
        Code:
                                                  
        Rk            Player WAR/pos   G From   To
        1     Roberto Alomar    20.1 703 1991 1995
        2        Devon White    19.8 656 1991 1995
        3        John Olerud    17.7 678 1991 1995
        4       Paul Molitor     9.3 405 1993 1995
        5         Joe Carter     8.2 725 1991 1995
        Seasonal WAR, 5.0+, 1991-1995 :
        Code:
                                        
        Rk                 Yrs From   To
        1      Devon White   3 1991 1993
        2   Roberto Alomar   2 1992 1993
        3      John Olerud   1 1993 1993
        4     Paul Molitor   1 1993 1993
        Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
        Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
        A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

        Comment


        • #5
          dgarza presents this case for Pat Hentgen of the Blue Jays:

          Originally posted by dgarza View Post
          Pat Hentgen
          107-85
          .557 %
          110 ERA+
          1028 Ks

          3x All Star (1993,1994,1997)
          AL CY (1996)
          Sporting News Pitcher of the Year (1996)

          Led League :
          Complete Games (1996,1997)
          Shutouts (1996,1997)
          IPs (1996,1997)
          HR/9 (1996)
          pWAR (1996)

          Only 1 of 5 Blue Jays to have 20-Win seasons.
          2nd best seasonal pWAR in Jays history:
          Code:
                                           
          Rk               Player  WAR Year
          1         Roger Clemens 10.3 1997
          2           Pat Hentgen  8.4 1996
          3            Dave Stieb  7.7 1984
          4          Roy Halladay  7.5 2003
          5         Roger Clemens  7.5 1998
          Blue Jay team career records :
          4th in Complete Games, pWAR
          5th in Strikeouts, Shutouts, Wins

          1990s AL Decade Records :
          9th in pWAR
          Code:
                                    
          Rk             Player  WAR
          1       Roger Clemens 63.2
          2        Kevin Appier 45.0
          3        Chuck Finley 42.4
          4        Mike Mussina 39.1
          5          David Cone 38.1
          6       Randy Johnson 37.3
          7         David Wells 28.4
          8           Jimmy Key 27.1
          9         Pat Hentgen 26.3
          10     Scott Erickson 26.2
          Tied for 3rd best seasonal pWAR
          Code:
                                            
          Rk                Player  WAR Year
          1          Roger Clemens 10.3 1997
          2          Roger Clemens  9.5 1990
          3         Pedro Martinez  8.4 1999
          4            Pat Hentgen  8.4 1996
          5           Kevin Appier  8.4 1993
          Jays bullpen coach in 2011.
          Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
          Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
          A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

          Comment


          • #6
            With the change in how long I'll allow nominations, there's under 3 days left for them.
            Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
            Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
            A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

            Comment


            • #7
              Bobby Cox
              Under Cox, the Blue Jays became a real contender, making the post-season for the 1st time in their history.
              Code:
                                                                                       
              Rk   Year Age                Tm                Lg   G   W   L W-L% Finish
              6    1982  41 Toronto Blue Jays                AL 162  78  84 .481      6
              7    1983  42 Toronto Blue Jays                AL 162  89  73 .549      4
              8    1984  43 Toronto Blue Jays                AL 163  89  73 .549      2
              9    1985  44 Toronto Blue Jays                AL 161  99  62 .615      1
                                      Toronto Blue Jays 4 years 648 355 292 .549    3.3
              Most games over .500 and highest winning % of any long term MGR.

              Manager of the Year in 1985.

              Comment


              • #8
                Roger Clemens
                41-13
                .759 %
                563 Strikeouts in 498.2 IPs
                196 ERA+
                19.4 WAR

                Lead League in pWAR, Wins, Stikeouts, ERA, ERA+ each season. Led in WHIP once.

                All Star 1997-1998.

                Awards
                1997 AL Cy Young
                1997 AL TSN Pitcher of the Year
                1997 AL Triple Crown
                1998 AL Triple Crown
                1998 AL Cy Young
                1998 AL TSN Pitcher of the Year

                Holds team seasonal records in pWAR, Strikeouots, ERA, ERA+

                Comment


                • #9
                  Jim Clancy
                  22.6 pWAR

                  All Star in 1982

                  Blue Jay Career Records:
                  2nd in Starts, Complete Games, IPs
                  3rd in Wins, Shutouts, Strikeouts
                  5th in pWAR

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Juan Guzman
                    76-62
                    .551 %
                    111 ERA+
                    19.5 pWAR

                    Won two World Series with the Toronto Blue Jays (1992 & 1993).
                    Guzman was very successful in his post-season play with the Jays:
                    Code:
                                                                   
                    Year         Series W L  ERA G GS   IP SO  WHIP
                    3 Yrs (5 Series)    5 1 2.44 8  8 51.2 41 1.335
                    All-Star Games
                    1992 *

                    Blue Jay career records (500 IP min.):
                    4th in Stikeouts
                    5th in K/9, H/9
                    6th in pWAR
                    7th in Wins, HR/9

                    Earned Run Average
                    1996 AL 2.93 (1st)

                    Win-Loss %
                    1993 AL .824 (1st)

                    Walks & Hits per IP
                    1996 AL 1.124 (1st)

                    Hits per 9 IP
                    1996 AL 7.577 (1st)

                    Games Started
                    1994 AL 25 (1st)

                    Strikeouts / Base On Balls
                    1996 AL 3.113 (1st)

                    Home Runs per 9 IP
                    1992 AL 0.299 (1st)

                    Adjusted ERA+
                    1996 AL 171 (1st)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Fred McGriff
                      .278/.389/.530
                      125 HRs
                      153 OPS+
                      18.4 WAR

                      McGriff's 153 OPS+ is not only the best in Blue Jay history, it was also best in all of baseball from 1986-1990:
                      Code:
                                                               
                      Rk              Player OPS+   G From   To
                      1         Fred McGriff  153 578 1986 1990
                      2           Wade Boggs  152 762 1986 1990
                      3          Kal Daniels  151 507 1986 1990
                      4           Jack Clark  149 603 1986 1990
                      5           Will Clark  148 736 1986 1990
                      6    Darryl Strawberry  147 729 1986 1990
                      7       Kevin Mitchell  144 681 1986 1990
                      8           Eric Davis  143 654 1986 1990
                      9         Mark McGwire  142 623 1986 1990
                      10    Rickey Henderson  141 674 1986 1990
                      Silver Sluggers
                      1989 AL (1B)

                      McGriff's best seasons were with Toronto:
                      Code:
                                        
                      Year    Tm   G WAR
                      1989   TOR 161 6.2
                      1988   TOR 154 6.0
                      1990   TOR 153 5.0

                      On-Base Plus Slugging
                      1989 AL .924 (1st)

                      Home Runs
                      1989 AL 36 (1st)

                      Adjusted OPS+
                      1989 AL 166 (1st)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Nominations are now closed.
                        Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                        Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                        A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          This election is now open.

                          My ballot


                          Players
                          George Bell-Y
                          Jim Clancy-N
                          Roger Clemens-Y
                          Juan Guzman-Y
                          Pat Hentgen-Y
                          Fred McGriff-Y
                          Lloyd Moseby-Y
                          Devon White-Y

                          Contributors
                          Bobby Cox -Y
                          Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                          Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                          A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Players:

                            George Bell-Y
                            Jim Clancy-N
                            Roger Clemens-Y
                            Juan Guzman-Y
                            Pat Hentgen-Y
                            Fred McGriff-Y
                            Lloyd Moseby-Y
                            Devon White-Y

                            Contributors:

                            Bobby Cox-Y

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Players:

                              George Bell-N

                              Jim Clancy-Y

                              Roger Clemens-N

                              Juan Guzman-Y

                              Pat Hentgen-Y

                              Fred McGriff-N

                              Lloyd Moseby-Y

                              Devon White-Y

                              Contributor:

                              Bobby Cox-Y

                              Comment

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