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Royals BBF HOF second chance election

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  • Royals BBF HOF second chance election

    This will be one of three second chance round elections this week. What we'll do for the second chance election is a Yes/No vote requiring the greater of 6 or 75% of the votes to induct. The election will be limited to the listed nominees. The elections will only be open for a week--but there will be at least three or four days for discussion and new nominations. You can abstain from an entire ballot (player or contributor), but if you vote in that portion of the ballot, only the guys you expressly vote yes for get credit for a positive vote. The others in that section of the ballot will be considered to have gotten a "no" vote. There will be no limits on how many nominees you can vote for . I will also provide the nomination discussions for the nominees. The deadline for suggesting nominees is twelve hours before the election begins.

    In this case, the election will not begin until Saturday, May 26 at 7 am EDT, and will end at 7 am EDT June 2. Nominations close 43 hours before the election begins, or May 24 at noon EDT. Ballots not cast within the stated election time frame will not count.


    The Royals have the following already inducted:

    Inducted players (11): Kevin Appier, George Brett, John Mayberry, Hal McRae, Jeff Montgomery, Amos Otis, Dan Quisenberry, Bret Saberhagen, Mike Sweeney, Frank White, Willie Wilson

    Contributors (3): Whitey Herzog, Dick Howser, Ewing Kauffman

    The list of nominees at present is:

    Players
    Mark Gubicza
    Charlie Leibrandt
    Dennis Leonard
    Freddie Patek
    Darrell Porter
    Paul Splittorff

    Contributors
    Charlie Lau
    Cookie Rojas
    John Scheurholz
    Kevin Seitzer
    Cedric Tallis
    Last edited by jalbright; 05-23-2012, 01:17 PM.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  • #2
    I think John Schuerholz deserves another shot at induction with the Royals. No second will be needed as he made the 50% vote mark.

    He helped build the strong Royal teams of the late 70's first by working in 1969-75 at various assistant level jobs with the minor league aspect of the franchise. He moved up to Scouting and/or Farm Director roles, and became GM in 1982-1990. He put the finishing touches on the franchise's one World Series championship in 1985, and a team under his regime won another division championship to go with that one. In short, he had a long and productive career in the front office of the franchise.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

    Comment


    • #3
      I'll make one more case that doesn't require a second, Dennis Leonard for the Royals:

      Leonard is well represented on the Royal career pitching leaderboards:

      5th in career pitching WAR;
      2d in career wins;
      5th in career won-loss percentage;
      10th in career WHIP;
      3d in career IP;
      3d in career strikeouts; and
      1st in shutouts.

      He was no slouch in individual seasons, either:
      5 times in the top 10 in his league in wins;
      4 times in the top 10 in his league in won-loss percentage;
      4 times in the top 10 in his league in K/ 9 IP;
      5 times in the top 10 in his league in IP;
      5 times in the top 10 in his league in strikeouts;
      6 times in the top 10 in his league in shutouts; and
      5 times in the top 10 in his league in k/ BB ratio.
      Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
      Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
      A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

      Comment


      • #4
        Domenic posted this on behalf of Kevin Seitzer as a contributor for the Royals:

        Seitzer is something of an odd choice, I suppose - but he was immensely popular as a player, and fans laud his work as the team's hitting coach nowadays.
        Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
        Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
        A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

        Comment


        • #5
          Even though I don't like his philosophy, Charlie Lau has a case as a contributor. He did develop Brett, Wilson, McRae and Mayberry. He was credited as developing Mayberry and Big Jawn did explode in his first year in KC but I do not know if Lau was there at the time. I would nominate him. The other guy who might deserve nomination is Cookie Rojas. He played 8 years for KC and made 4 all star teams, but he needs some "contributor" credit to get in, as he was really the first "fan favorite". I remember that they had a Cookie Rojas night. He played all 9 positions in a game at one point.

          Not so sure about others. Darrell Porter played 555 games and 3 real great seasons. Probably comparable to Mayberry.
          Cone has the Cy Young but just 2 seasons.
          Busby has the no hitter and a short excellent run.
          Leibrandt should not be forgotten. 5 straight winning double digit win season.
          Gubicza was actually rated as the top player in baseball by the sporting news based on 2 year performance and desirability for '88 and '89.
          Splittorff has 166 wins as a lefty and ALL for one team.
          I hate Patek but he had 3 all star seasons, a 6th place MVP vote in another and 325 steals in 8 years.
          Splittoff would be the best case among player.

          But seriously, just from a Royals baseball deep history perspective, Lau and Rojas should be in as contributors, or for Rojas in some kind of combined role.
          Last edited by brett; 05-18-2012, 07:45 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by brett View Post
            Even though I don't like his philosophy, Charlie Lau has a case as a contributor. He did develop Brett, Wilson, McRae and Mayberry. He was credited as developing Mayberry and Big Jawn did explode in his first year in KC but I do not know if Lau was there at the time. I would nominate him. The other guy who might deserve nomination is Cookie Rojas. He played 8 years for KC and made 4 all star teams, but he needs some "contributor" credit to get in, as he was really the first "fan favorite". I remember that they had a Cookie Rojas night. He played all 9 positions in a game at one point.

            Not so sure about others. Darrell Porter played 555 games and 3 real great seasons. Probably comparable to Mayberry.
            Cone has the Cy Young but just 2 seasons.
            Busby has the no hitter and a short excellent run.
            Leibrandt should not be forgotten. 5 straight winning double digit win season.
            Gubicza was actually rated as the top player in baseball by the sporting news based on 2 year performance and desirability for '88 and '89.
            Splittorff has 166 wins as a lefty and ALL for one team.
            I hate Patek but he had 3 all star seasons, a 6th place MVP vote in another and 325 steals in 8 years.
            Splittoff would be the best case among player.

            But seriously, just from a Royals baseball deep history perspective, Lau and Rojas should be in as contributors, or for Rojas in some kind of combined role.
            I'll list Lau and Rojas for the contributors, but I'm not clear which if any of the players mentioned are actually being nominated. If you want 1 or more of them nominated, I'd appreciate clarification. Thanks.
            Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
            Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
            A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by jalbright View Post
              I'll list Lau and Rojas for the contributors, but I'm not clear which if any of the players mentioned are actually being nominated. If you want 1 or more of them nominated, I'd appreciate clarification. Thanks.
              I was wondering if there were some requirements like years of service for example. I would nominate Splittorff and Gubicza who were basically career Royals and at or near the top of the leaderboards.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by brett View Post
                I was wondering if there were some requirements like years of service for example. I would nominate Splittorff and Gubicza who were basically career Royals and at or near the top of the leaderboards.
                No real requirements. Clemens is nominated for his two years in Toronto, for example. I'd suggest player nominees who meet at least one of these standards: 1) somebody you think can get 75% of the vote for this franchise; 2) a guy well represented on his franchise's leader boards (specifying those leaderships strongly helps state your case--realizing it's more impressive to be a leader for a team that's been around a lot longer); 3) a guy who was an all-star or at least all-star quality at least 3 or 4 times for the franchise; 4) a guy who was at least twice an MVP or Cy Young caliber player for the franchise; or 5) a guy who you think would be an egregious oversight if omitted from mention as one of the team's greats. Now, some of these standards may not be high enough to get a guy elected, but it's very unlikely he will be elected if he can't meet at least one of these standards.
                Last edited by jalbright; 05-19-2012, 09:31 AM.
                Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Mark Gubicza
                  132 Wins
                  110 ERA+
                  35.5 pWAR

                  3rd in Royals pWAR - this should really be enough for him to make the Royals HOF
                  Code:
                                                            
                  Rk            Player  WAR     IP From   To
                  1       Kevin Appier 45.0 1843.2 1989 2004
                  2    Bret Saberhagen 38.8 1660.1 1984 1991
                  3       Mark Gubicza 35.5 2218.2 1984 1996
                  4       Zack Greinke 24.8 1108.0 2004 2010
                  5    Dan Quisenberry 24.6  920.1 1979 1988
                  Also 2nd in Strikeouts and 3rd in Wins

                  All-Star Games
                  1988 *
                  1989 *

                  WAR for Pitchers
                  1988 AL 7.5 (1st)

                  Bases On Balls per 9 IP
                  1994 AL 1.800 (1st)

                  Home Runs per 9 IP
                  1986 AL 0.399 (1st)
                  1988 AL 0.367 (1st)
                  1989 AL 0.353 (1st)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Freddie Patek
                    18.1 WAR

                    336/444 Stolen Base = 75.7% - led league in 1977
                    Patek stole more bases than any one else in the AL 1971-1979 (ties with Campaneris for the entire '70s).

                    All-Star Games
                    1972
                    1976 *
                    1978 (SS)

                    In the 1976 & 1977 ALCS, Patek excelled at the plate
                    Code:
                                                                                       
                    Year    Tm Series Opp G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI   BA  OBP  SLG   OPS
                    1976   KCR   ALCS NYY 5 18 18 2 7  2  0  0   4 .389 .389 .500  .889
                    1977   KCR   ALCS NYY 5 22 18 4 7  3  1  0   5 .389 .400 .667 1.067
                    Defensive WAR
                    1972 AL 3.2 (1st)

                    Triples
                    1971 AL 11 (1st)

                    Stolen Bases
                    1977 AL 53 (1st)

                    Range Factor/Game as SS
                    1972 AL 5.44 (1st)
                    1973 AL 5.52 (1st)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Darrell Porter
                      .271/.375/.435
                      121 OPS+

                      He was a star in the 1977 & 1978 ALCS.
                      Code:
                                                                                   
                      Year   Series Opp G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR BB   BA  OBP  SLG  OPS
                      1977     ALCS NYY 5 18 15 3 5  0  0  0  3 .333 .444 .333 .778
                      1978     ALCS NYY 4 17 14 1 5  1  0  0  2 .357 .412 .429 .840
                      All-Star Games
                      1978 *
                      1979 (C)
                      1980 *

                      Porter should rank as the best Royals catcher in franchise history.
                      Code:
                                                            
                      Rk            Player WAR/pos From   To
                      1     Darrell Porter    15.8 1977 1980
                      2    Mike Macfarlane    11.8 1987 1998
                      3         Fran Healy     4.4 1969 1976
                      4        John Wathan     3.7 1976 1985
                      5        Don Slaught     2.8 1982 1984
                      Porter had the best season of any catcher from 1977-1980 in 1979.
                      Code:
                                                                 
                      Rk           Player WAR/pos   G Year  Tm Lg
                      1    Darrell Porter     7.4 157 1979 KCR AL
                      2      Carlton Fisk     6.7 152 1977 BOS AL
                      3       Gary Carter     6.2 154 1980 MON NL
                      4       Gary Carter     5.8 140 1979 MON NL
                      5       Gene Tenace     5.7 151 1979 SDP NL
                      6       Gary Carter     5.6 157 1978 MON NL
                      7      Carlton Fisk     5.6 157 1978 BOS AL
                      8     Brian Downing     5.3 148 1979 CAL AL
                      9      Johnny Bench     5.3 130 1979 CIN NL
                      10      Ted Simmons     5.3 152 1978 STL NL
                      Last edited by dgarza; 05-22-2012, 05:33 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Charlie Leibrandt
                        76-61 = .555 %
                        116 ERA+
                        21.5 pWAR

                        Royals career records (500 IP min.):
                        6th in ERA+
                        7th in pWAR

                        57% of vote last election

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Paul Splittorff
                          166-143 = .537 %
                          19.5 pWAR

                          Top Royal in total Starts, IPs, and Wins.

                          Following his playing days, he was a Royals broadcaster for more than two decades.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            As a contributor I can't see anyone ahead of Cedric Tallis so I nominate him. His trading skills were absolutely critical in bringing the Royals to early respectability. I quick succession he acquired Lou Piniella, Amos Otis, John Mayberry, Cookie Rojas, Freddie Patek, etc. He recruited a management team of John Schuerholz, Lou Gorman, Syd Thrift, Jack McKeon and Herk Robinson.

                            To my mind he made only two real mistakes as a GM. First, in the expansion draft he took Wally Bunker when he could have had Jim Palmer. Seems like a big deal now but Palmer's arm health at the time made him a very risky choice. Secondly, not being much of a business guy he ran a foul of Ewing Kauffman. The secondmistake cost him his job.
                            Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Less than a day left for nominations.
                              Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                              Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                              A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                              Comment

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