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  • #1

    "Close to milestone" players

    Each of these guys finished within 90% of a "Hall of Fame" milestone. That is, they each had at least 2,700 hits, 450 home runs, 270 wins, 2,700 strikeouts and/or 450 saves, but didn't quite reach the milestone numbers of 3,000, 500, 300, 3,000 and/or 500 respectively. Which of them should be in the Hall of Fame? I'm omitting guys who aren't yet eligible or who are currently active.

    ...close to 3,000 hits, but not quite:

    Harold Baines (2,866)
    Vada Pinson (2,757)
    Al Oliver (2,743)
    Rusty Staub (2,716)
    Bill Buckner (2,715)
    Dave Parker (2,712)
    Doc Cramer (2,705)

    Omitted:

    Barry Bonds (2,935)
    Ivan Rodriguez (2,844)
    Omar Vizquel (2,843)
    Alex Rodriguez (2,820)
    Ken Griffey (2,781)
    Johnny Damon (2,733)

    ....close to 500 home runs, but not quite:

    Fred McGriff (493)
    Jose Canseco (462)

    Omitted:

    Carlos Delgado (473)
    Chipper Jones (459)

    ...close to 300 wins, but not quite:

    Bobby Mathews (297)
    Tommy John (288)
    Tony Mullane (284)
    Jim Kaat (283)

    Omitted:

    Mike Mussina (270)

    ...close to 3,000 strikeouts, but not quite:

    Mickey Lolich (2,832)
    Frank Tanana (2,773)

    Omitted:

    Mike Mussina (2,813)

    ...close to 500 saves, but not quite:

    Lee Smith (478)
    76
    Harold Baines
    6.58%
    5
    Bill Buckner
    1.32%
    1
    Jose Canseco
    2.63%
    2
    Doc Cramer
    1.32%
    1
    Tommy John
    10.53%
    8
    Jim Kaat
    6.58%
    5
    Mickey Lolich
    1.32%
    1
    Bobby Mathews
    2.63%
    2
    Fred McGriff
    17.11%
    13
    Tony Mullane
    7.89%
    6
    Al Oliver
    5.26%
    4
    Dave Parker
    9.21%
    7
    Vada Pinson
    5.26%
    4
    Lee Smith
    10.53%
    8
    Rusty Staub
    2.63%
    2
    Frank Tanana
    0.00%
    0
    None of the above
    9.21%
    7
    Last edited by Cowtipper; 08-28-2012, 04:47 PM.
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Of all the guys listed, I'd put Fred McGriff in first.

    If not for the strike in 94' and 95', he would have hit over 500 HR.

    Comment

    • #3
      Ditto. McGriff is the only one I think definitely belongs. Pinson, Parker, John, Mullane all have their supporters and I have in some projects supported them but they would be bottom third or quarter at their positions.

      Comment

      • #4
        No love for Mike Mussina? He's a slam dunk to me.

        He pitched his entire career in the AL East, most of it during the height of the steroid era. And finished with over 3,500 IP and a 123 ERA+, (not to mention the 270 wins, which I'm sure the voters will like). Plus I don't think anyone doubts he "could have" stuck around for 300 wins and 3,000 Ks if he wanted to. But he retired while at the top of his game, coming off a 20 win season.

        In case anyoneone is wondering, that combination of 3,500 IP and 123 ERA+ has been accomplished by only 18 pitchers in history, including the 19th Century guys Rusie, Keefe, Clarkson, and Nichols. All 18 of them are in the HOF with the exception of Randy Johnson, Roger Clemens, and Greg Maddux, who are not yet eligible, but are all first-ballot locks based on their numbers (minus the steroid issue for Clemens).

        Mussina also is one of the greatest control pitchers ever. He is 11th all-time among retired pitchers in K:BB ratio.

        Especially if (when) Jack Morris gets in....there will be no justification for Mussina not making it.
        Last edited by GiambiJuice; 05-25-2012, 06:48 AM.
        My top 10 players:

        1. Babe Ruth
        2. Barry Bonds
        3. Ty Cobb
        4. Ted Williams
        5. Willie Mays
        6. Alex Rodriguez
        7. Hank Aaron
        8. Honus Wagner
        9. Lou Gehrig
        10. Mickey Mantle

        Comment

        • #5
          This group would make an excellent "Hall of the Very Good".
          Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

          Comment

          • #6
            Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post
            No love for Mike Mussina? He's a slam dunk to me.

            He pitched his entire career in the AL East, most of it during the height of the steroid era. And finished with over 3,500 IP and a 123 ERA+, (not to mention the 270 wins, which I'm sure the voters will like). Plus I don't think anyone doubts he "could have" stuck around for 300 wins and 3,000 Ks if he wanted to. But he retired while at the top of his game, coming off a 20 win season.

            In case anyoneone is wondering, that combination of 3,500 IP and 123 ERA+ has been accomplished by only 18 pitchers in history, including the 19th Century guys Rusie, Keefe, Clarkson, and Nichols. All 18 of them are in the HOF with the exception of Randy Johnson, Roger Clemens, and Greg Maddux, who are not yet eligible, but are all first-ballot locks based on their numbers (minus the steroid issue for Clemens).

            Mussina also is one of the greatest control pitchers ever. He is 11th all-time among retired pitchers in K:BB ratio.

            Especially if (when) Jack Morris gets in....there will be no justification for Mussina not making it.
            I thought Mussina was nto yet eligible so not part of the vote. Mussina is a 9/10 no brainer for me.

            Comment

            • #7
              It really amazes me that Tommy John is not in the Hall of Fame. He definitely has better stats than a lot of pitchers that were inducted. I also voted for Baines and McGriff.

              Comment

              • #8
                Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post
                No love for Mike Mussina? He's a slam dunk to me.

                He pitched his entire career in the AL East, most of it during the height of the steroid era. And finished with over 3,500 IP and a 123 ERA+, (not to mention the 270 wins, which I'm sure the voters will like). Plus I don't think anyone doubts he "could have" stuck around for 300 wins and 3,000 Ks if he wanted to. But he retired while at the top of his game, coming off a 20 win season.

                In case anyoneone is wondering, that combination of 3,500 IP and 123 ERA+ has been accomplished by only 18 pitchers in history, including the 19th Century guys Rusie, Keefe, Clarkson, and Nichols. All 18 of them are in the HOF with the exception of Randy Johnson, Roger Clemens, and Greg Maddux, who are not yet eligible, but are all first-ballot locks based on their numbers (minus the steroid issue for Clemens).

                Mussina also is one of the greatest control pitchers ever. He is 11th all-time among retired pitchers in K:BB ratio.

                Especially if (when) Jack Morris gets in....there will be no justification for Mussina not making it.
                I think he was omitted because he's not yet eligible and he's considered a likely HOFer when he does come up on the ballot, unlike the other guys on the list who have already failed to get support from the voters.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Originally posted by davewashere View Post
                  I think he was omitted because he's not yet eligible and he's considered a likely HOFer when he does come up on the ballot, unlike the other guys on the list who have already failed to get support from the voters.
                  Thanks for clarifying. Can't believe I missed that.
                  My top 10 players:

                  1. Babe Ruth
                  2. Barry Bonds
                  3. Ty Cobb
                  4. Ted Williams
                  5. Willie Mays
                  6. Alex Rodriguez
                  7. Hank Aaron
                  8. Honus Wagner
                  9. Lou Gehrig
                  10. Mickey Mantle

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    None of the above. Tanana, Kaat, Lolich and Parker are close.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Echoing jjpm74, I have to say none of these guys will deserve the Hall. IMHO, the Hall has become diluted over the past 15 years of elections or so. Close counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.
                      Catfish Hunter, RIP. Mark Fidrych, RIP. Skip Caray, RIP. Tony Gwynn, #19, RIP

                      A fanatic is someone who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. -- Winston Churchill. (Please take note that I've recently become aware of how this quote applies to a certain US president. This is a coincidence, and the quote was first added to this signature too far back to remember when).

                      Experience is the hardest teacher. She gives the test first and the lesson later. -- Dan Quisenberry.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        I went hog wild with this one and voted for John, Kaat, McGriff, Mullane, Oliver, Parker, Pinson, Smith and Staub. I'm not backing all of them for immediate induction, but I wouldn't complain if any of them were elected.
                        Last edited by Cowtipper; 05-25-2012, 11:35 PM.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          I voted for:
                          Jose Canseco
                          Fred McGriff
                          Harold Baines
                          Dave Parker

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Mcgriff is the only one that deserves the HOF. John and Kaat were just 'good' for a long time. Mullane was nothing special for his time. Oliver was Steve Garvey in the outfield. Parker only had a few star-type seasons. Pinson declined at a very young age. Staub was like Kaat and John..just a good player who played forever.


                            Mcgriff was almost identical to Billy Williams as a hitter for his career. Williams had a couple of outstanding seasons which made him seem better, but really they are very close. Mcgriff may even be better because Williams has a huge home/road split.

                            Mcgriff's home/road stats are eerily similar:

                            home: 1224 G 216 2b 12 3b 241 HR 778 RBI .281 .377 .508
                            away: 1236 G 225 2b 12 3b 252 HR 782 RBI .288 .376 .510
                            Last edited by willshad; 05-25-2012, 10:59 PM.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              I voted Mcgriff. I'm not too big on the rest of em.
                              "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

                              "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

                              Comment

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