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Jimmy Wynn

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  • willshad
    replied
    Jim Wynn was one of my favorite players, but there really is no case for him as a hall of famer. A guy with a 128 OPS+ in 6653 at bats may be a hall of famer if he was a catcher, or perhaps a good fielding shortstop. But look at it this way: Jim Rice (a borderline candidate at best) has the same OPS+ , in many more at bats...and OPS+ is his WEAK point. That doesnt even mention his dominance in triple crown stats, ink scores, and MVP votes. Yeah, Wynn had an advantage on the bases and positonal advantage, but it cant make up for his lack of longevity and dominance. He was probably beter than Chick hafey, a hall off famer with similiar credentials (but Im assuming Hafey's selection is considered a mistake around these parts). To me, a hall of famer rises above his conditions, and puts up hall numbers regardless. Wynn had maybe one or two seasons that can be considered 'hall worthy'. He was great in 1969, and very very good in 1974, and good in 1970 and 1972. If he had managed to have a very long career with great counting stats he may have been able to make a Dave Winfield-like case for himself.
    Last edited by willshad; 04-05-2008, 10:20 AM.

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  • leecemark
    replied
    --Jimmy Wynn actually gets a fair amount of support. Perhaps more than I can see the merit for. His value is almost identical to Fred Lynn and Lynn gets virtually no support. Their OPS+ is only 1 point apart (advantage Lynn) with their PA about 100 apart (advantage Wynn). Wynn has a baserunning (or at least basestealing) advantage, but Lynn was probably the better defender (Lynn played over 1500 games in CF to 1100 for Wynn). I think the difference is people like to highlight guys whose value was somewhat hidden while active due to park/era effects while Lynn's great seasons are viewed as creations of Fenway. Lost in that is, even after you bump Wynn up for park effects and drag Lynn down, they come out pretty much the same.

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  • AstrosFan
    started a topic Jimmy Wynn

    Jimmy Wynn

    In the New Historical Baseball Abstract, Bill James, writing about Darrell Evans, noted that Evans was probably the most underrated baseball player in history. He went on to write that while he didn't believe Evans had a chance in hell to make the Hall, if you compared him to Tony Perez, you saw that Evans was in fact a little better, and if Perez is considered a legit Hall of Famer, what exactly is the argument against Evans? So I thought about Jimmy Wynn, who is comparable to Evans in a few ways. He's underrated because of his low BA, he has a very high secondary average, and when you begin adjusting for context and take together all the things he does to help a team win, you realize that Jimmy Wynn is actually a hell of a player. But Jimmy Wynn is not regarded as a Hall of Famer, and it's not likely he ever will be. Still, you can make a case for him, just as you can with Evans. What Hall of Famer best makes the case for Jimmy Wynn? There are several rules that need to be followed here. 1) Do not use players who are in primarily for their contributions as Negro Leaguers. 2) Do not use players who you see as mistake selections. 3) Adjust for context. Don't just look through the similarity scores on Baseball Reference. Jimmy Wynn's stats are low because he played in a pitchers era in a pitchers park. His comps will not be very impressive, since similarity scores don't context adjust. 4) Evaluate players based on overall performance, total offense and defense. A complete picture is a lot more helpful than simply OPS+.

    I realize the majority of Baseball-Fever does not view Jimmy Wynn as a Hall of Famer. I am not asking you to argue on Wynn's behalf, I just want you to come up with a player you believe best makes the argument for Wynn, and tell us why. It should be an interesting exercise, is all. And I want this thread to be about making those comparisons, and discussing the merit of those comparisons. It should not be about whether Jimmy Wynn is a Hall of Famer or not. We've had votes on this before, and the result is always a resounding NO. But maybe after the comparisons have been made, some minds will change. Anyway, have fun with this, and I look forward to seeing what everyone comes up with.

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