What percentage of votes will Craig Biggio get the first time he's on the ballot?
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Craig Biggio 2013 HOF ballot
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I think he will get 75-84%. Him managing to get 3000 will help him and get him in 1st ballot.
However, my view is that he should get under 64%, like 40-45%. He shouldn't get voted in until his 2nd or 3rd year in.
Who did everyone feel was better: Bagwell or Biggio?
Always, it was Bagwell who people considered the top player on the Astros. If Bagwell is struggling to get in after so many years, then why should Biggio make it 1st ballot?
Then there's Roberto Alomar. He was a better 2B, and he couldn't get in 1st ballot.
Of course, the writers will be drawn to 3000 hits.
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Originally posted by redban View PostWho did everyone feel was better: Bagwell or Biggio? Always, it was Bagwell who people considered the top player on the Astros. If Bagwell is struggling to get in after so many years, then why should Biggio make it 1st ballot?
I really want to see Biggio get in the HOF but my fear is that he misses by about 5%, then sometime between the 2013 and the 2014 ballot his name will be linked to steroids because he played with the Astros (who have a lot of admitted/accused steroid users like Caminiti, Pettitte, Clemens, Bagwell, Nevin, etc.). That will cause him to get stuck in HOF purgatory just like Bagwell.
Originally posted by redban View PostThen there's Roberto Alomar. He was a better 2B, and he couldn't get in 1st ballot. Of course, the writers will be drawn to 3000 hits.?
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Originally posted by MyDogSparty View PostOther than Rafael Palmeiro, has there ever been a hitter, since WWII, who had 3000 career hits but who didn't get in the HOF on the first ballot?
But no, there have not been any hitters with 3000 hits who didn't get in 1st ballot. Mostly because most of the members of the 3000 hit club were slam-dunk choices - guys like Aaron, Mays, Ripken, etc.
Biggio doesn't match up to those guys. Before he closed in on 3000 hits, I never saw him as a Hall of Fame member. I saw Bagwell as a Hall of Famer as early as the late 1990s, but never Biggio.
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Do you guys really feel that Biggio wouldn't be a Hall Of Famer without the 3,000 hits? I think he's a pretty solid HOF if he had finished with say 2,800. He hung on too long and his rate stats and WAR suffered because he was well below replacement level in his last season, yet was a full-time player.
Between 1990-1999, a full decade, his WAR was 51.4, fourth in all of baseball behind only Bonds, Griffey, and Bagwell.
Plus he 5th all time in doubles (668), 14th in runs scored (1,844), and he stole over 400 bases. Considering he played most of his career at 2nd base, this to me is a stone cold lock Hall of Famer, and I'm not convinced that Alomar was necessarily better than him.My top 10 players:
1. Babe Ruth
2. Barry Bonds
3. Ty Cobb
4. Ted Williams
5. Willie Mays
6. Alex Rodriguez
7. Hank Aaron
8. Honus Wagner
9. Lou Gehrig
10. Mickey Mantle
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Originally posted by MyDogSparty View PostOther than Rafael Palmeiro, has there ever been a hitter, since WWII, who had 3000 career hits but who didn't get in the HOF on the first ballot?
He'll be the 1st "clean" eligible 3,000 Hit player not to be a First Ballot guy since Paul Waner.
I'm picturing 40-65% of the vote.
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Originally posted by dgarza View PostBagwell didn't make it in his 1st year and Biggio's an Astro. I don't think he'll make it on his 1st try.
He'll be the 1st "clean" eligible 3,000 Hit player not to be a First Ballot guy since Paul Waner.Dave Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
Robin Bill Ernie JEDI
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Originally posted by GiambiJuice View PostDo you guys really feel that Biggio wouldn't be a Hall Of Famer without the 3,000 hits?
I don't know if it was Canseco talking about his next book but a while ago somebody did say that the HOF has already inducted a PED user. People started to speculate that it was Ripken because the accuser said fans would be shocked to find out who it was.?
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I think Biggio will get in first ballot. I think the more interesting candidate is Piazza. He certainly has the numnbers to get in first ballot, but will they end up treating him like Bagwell?
Do keep in mind that Bagwell has been linked to steroids unfairly. There's no evidence he did any steroids, he's just being kept out because of his size and numbers. It's actually very unfair.Last edited by fenrir; 06-05-2012, 11:23 AM.
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Originally posted by GiambiJuice View PostDo you guys really feel that Biggio wouldn't be a Hall Of Famer without the 3,000 hits? I think he's a pretty solid HOF if he had finished with say 2,800. He hung on too long and his rate stats and WAR suffered because he was well below replacement level in his last season, yet was a full-time player.
Between 1990-1999, a full decade, his WAR was 51.4, fourth in all of baseball behind only Bonds, Griffey, and Bagwell.
Plus he 5th all time in doubles (668), 14th in runs scored (1,844), and he stole over 400 bases. Considering he played most of his career at 2nd base, this to me is a stone cold lock Hall of Famer, and I'm not convinced that Alomar was necessarily better than him.Originally posted by Captain Cold Nose View PostThere's still some steroid backlash. As more of them are reaching the ballot, "clean" players are seeing a nice jump in voting. That's why I think Biggio will get in rather easily first ballot.3 6 10 21 29 31 35 41 42 44 47
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I would also point out that a lot of HoF voters were surprised that Alomar didn't make it first ballot. They wrote that they believe the spitting incident hurt him. He breezed through on his second try. So I don't think the "Biggio shouldn't go in first ballot because Alomar didn't" will hold much water.
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