Craig Biggio 2013 HOF ballot

[MyDogSparty]

What percentage of votes will Craig Biggio get the first time he's on the ballot?

[redban]

I think he will get 75-84%. Him managing to get 3000 will help him and get him in 1st ballot.

However, my view is that he should get under 64%, like 40-45%. He shouldn't get voted in until his 2nd or 3rd year in.

Who did everyone feel was better: Bagwell or Biggio?

Always, it was Bagwell who people considered the top player on the Astros. If Bagwell is struggling to get in after so many years, then why should Biggio make it 1st ballot?

Then there's Roberto Alomar. He was a better 2B, and he couldn't get in 1st ballot.

Of course, the writers will be drawn to 3000 hits.

[jjpm74]

I would be very surprised if he was elected in his first year. He will go in year 2 or year 3 and end up around 70% in his first try.

[MyDogSparty]

Who did everyone feel was better: Bagwell or Biggio? Always, it was Bagwell who people considered the top player on the Astros. If Bagwell is struggling to get in after so many years, then why should Biggio make it 1st ballot?

I believe that Bagwell has been kept out primarily because he's been linked to steroids and that will be the main difference between Bagwell and Biggio's induction. Thus far Biggio has been "relatively" free of steroid accusations while Bagwell hasn't. So far, guys with links (IE: McGwire) haven't faired too well. Writers are taking a wait and see approach. The 2013 ballot is filled with guys with steroid links (Clemens, Bonds, Sosa, etc.) so this is going to be a very interesting ballot.

I really want to see Biggio get in the HOF but my fear is that he misses by about 5%, then sometime between the 2013 and the 2014 ballot his name will be linked to steroids because he played with the Astros (who have a lot of admitted/accused steroid users like Caminiti, Pettitte, Clemens, Bagwell, Nevin, etc.). That will cause him to get stuck in HOF purgatory just like Bagwell.

Then there's Roberto Alomar. He was a better 2B, and he couldn't get in 1st ballot. Of course, the writers will be drawn to 3000 hits.

With regards to Alomar, I think he's a first ballot HOFer but he was penalized 1 year by some baseball writers for the spitting incident before he was overwhelmingly admitted.. The fact that he got 90% on his second ballot, to me, was a sign that there were just enough baseball writers who wanted to send him a message that first year to say they weren't happy with his behavior. I know that Alomar apologized, the umpire forgave him and that they are said to be good friends now but that clearly tarnished his reputation.

[MyDogSparty]

Other than Rafael Palmeiro, has there ever been a hitter, since WWII, who had 3000 career hits but who didn't get in the HOF on the first ballot?

[redban]

Other than Rafael Palmeiro, has there ever been a hitter, since WWII, who had 3000 career hits but who didn't get in the HOF on the first ballot?

Well, there's Pete Rose.

But no, there have not been any hitters with 3000 hits who didn't get in 1st ballot. Mostly because most of the members of the 3000 hit club were slam-dunk choices - guys like Aaron, Mays, Ripken, etc.

Biggio doesn't match up to those guys. Before he closed in on 3000 hits, I never saw him as a Hall of Fame member. I saw Bagwell as a Hall of Famer as early as the late 1990s, but never Biggio.

[GiambiJuice]

Do you guys really feel that Biggio wouldn't be a Hall Of Famer without the 3,000 hits? I think he's a pretty solid HOF if he had finished with say 2,800. He hung on too long and his rate stats and WAR suffered because he was well below replacement level in his last season, yet was a full-time player.

Between 1990-1999, a full decade, his WAR was 51.4, fourth in all of baseball behind only Bonds, Griffey, and Bagwell.


Plus he 5th all time in doubles (668), 14th in runs scored (1,844), and he stole over 400 bases. Considering he played most of his career at 2nd base, this to me is a stone cold lock Hall of Famer, and I'm not convinced that Alomar was necessarily better than him.

[dgarza]

Other than Rafael Palmeiro, has there ever been a hitter, since WWII, who had 3000 career hits but who didn't get in the HOF on the first ballot?

Bagwell didn't make it in his 1st year and Biggio's an Astro. I don't think he'll make it on his 1st try.

He'll be the 1st "clean" eligible 3,000 Hit player not to be a First Ballot guy since Paul Waner.

I'm picturing 40-65% of the vote.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Bagwell didn't make it in his 1st year and Biggio's an Astro. I don't think he'll make it on his 1st try.

He'll be the 1st "clean" eligible 3,000 Hit player not to be a First Ballot guy since Paul Waner.

There's still some steroid backlash. As more of them are reaching the ballot, "clean" players are seeing a nice jump in voting. That's why I think Biggio will get in rather easily first ballot.

[MyDogSparty]

Do you guys really feel that Biggio wouldn't be a Hall Of Famer without the 3,000 hits?

I wouldn't put myself in that group. I think Biggio is a HOFer without 3000 hits but any link to PEDs concerns me. Maybe I'm being paranoid but I feel like there are players like Canseco or members of the media who are waiting for a big name to get into the HOF or close to it before they drop a bomb that they've got links to PEDs just so they can keep dragging baseball down, break a big story, justify putting someone else in the HOF, etc.

I don't know if it was Canseco talking about his next book but a while ago somebody did say that the HOF has already inducted a PED user. People started to speculate that it was Ripken because the accuser said fans would be shocked to find out who it was.

[fenrir]

I think Biggio will get in first ballot. I think the more interesting candidate is Piazza. He certainly has the numnbers to get in first ballot, but will they end up treating him like Bagwell?

Do keep in mind that Bagwell has been linked to steroids unfairly. There's no evidence he did any steroids, he's just being kept out because of his size and numbers. It's actually very unfair.

[Los Bravos]

Do you guys really feel that Biggio wouldn't be a Hall Of Famer without the 3,000 hits? I think he's a pretty solid HOF if he had finished with say 2,800. He hung on too long and his rate stats and WAR suffered because he was well below replacement level in his last season, yet was a full-time player.

Between 1990-1999, a full decade, his WAR was 51.4, fourth in all of baseball behind only Bonds, Griffey, and Bagwell.


Plus he 5th all time in doubles (668), 14th in runs scored (1,844), and he stole over 400 bases. Considering he played most of his career at 2nd base, this to me is a stone cold lock Hall of Famer, and I'm not convinced that Alomar was necessarily better than him.

There's still some steroid backlash. As more of them are reaching the ballot, "clean" players are seeing a nice jump in voting. That's why I think Biggio will get in rather easily first ballot.

I agree with all of the above.

[J W]

I would also point out that a lot of HoF voters were surprised that Alomar didn't make it first ballot. They wrote that they believe the spitting incident hurt him. He breezed through on his second try. So I don't think the "Biggio shouldn't go in first ballot because Alomar didn't" will hold much water.