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Which New Candidates Should Be On the 2013 BBWAA Ballot? (vote for your top 10)

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  • Which New Candidates Should Be On the 2013 BBWAA Ballot? (vote for your top 10)

    Somewhere in the deep hollows within the Hall of fame, the oracular ballot committee will soon convene for their annual deliberations regarding those souls they will anoint as worthy to appear on the next BBWAA ballot for the 2013 election. Little is known about how this committee goes about reaching its decisions. After making their choices, the list of players is hermetically sealed and kept in a #2 mayonnaise jar on Funk and Wagnall's porch for several months. NO ONE knows the content of their decisions until some time in late November, when ALL is made known.

    I've looked at the number of newly eligible players who were passed through by the screening committee each year for the past decade:
    Code:
    Year	1st Yr	elected	+5%	-5%	0%
    2003	17	1	3	9	4
    2004	15	2	0	11	2
    2005	12	1	1	8	2
    2006	14	0	2	10	2
    2007	17	2	2	9	4
    2008	11	0	1	8	2
    2009	10	1	0	6	3
    2010	15	0	4	7	4
    2011	19	0	4	9	6
    2012	13	0	1	6	6
    					
    	143	7	18	83	35
    		4.9%	12.6%	58.0%	24.5%
    To explain, look at the totals in the second line from the bottom. From 2003 to 2012, 143 new players made the ballot. Of these, 7 (or 4.9%) were elected to the HOF in their first year eligible; 18 others (12.6%) attained 5% support and remained eligible; 83 (58%) received at least one vote but had less than 5% support; 35 (24.5%) received zero votes.

    Let's see who we at BBF would put on the ballot. I've decided to ignore the 10 years played rule; if a guy is good enough to make the Hall ballot he should not be subject to the constraints of that rule. Here's a list of the top 30 retirees from 2007 who should be considered for a ballot spot:
    Code:
    last played 2007   HOF Monitor	 WAR
    Sandy Alomar	        48	 11.6
    Tony Batista	        26	 11.3
    Craig Biggio	       169	 62.1
    Barry Bonds	       340	158.1
    Jeff Cirillo	        37	 32.0
    Royce Clayton	        24	 16.4
    Roger Clemens	       332	133.9
    Jeff Conine	        22	 16.2
    Steve Finley	        72	 40.4
    Julio Franco	        58	 39.7
    Marcus Giles	        21	 15.5
    Shawn Green	        62	 31.4
    Orlando Hernandez	24	 21.6
    Roberto Hernandez	93	 17.2
    Byung-Hyun Kim	        11	  9.5
    Ryan Klesko	        24	 24.6
    Mike Lieberthal	        15	 13.3
    Kenny Lofton	        91	 64.9
    Jose Mesa	       113	  9.6
    Mike Piazza	       207	 56.1
    Reggie Sanders	        18	 36.7
    Curt Schilling	       171	 76.1
    Aaron Sele	        21	 17.5
    Sammy Sosa	       202	 54.8
    Mike Stanton	        66	 13.3
    Jose Valentin	         9	 28.8
    David Wells	        88	 49.2
    Rondell White	         6	 25.5
    Bob Wickman	        60	 15.4
    Woody Williams	        17	 28.1
    BB-Ref provides two easy ways to research these candidates.

    --This listing includes all 2007 retirees with at least 10 years played and 10 HOF Monitor points.
    --This listing shows every player who last appeared in MLB in 2007. Click on column heading to sort.

    So who do you think are the 10 players here who most deserve to be on the next Hall of Fame ballot? This year has a very strong class of newbies, so the actual screeners will likely choose more than ten. However, I don't think you can make a HOF case for more than ten of these, so we'll go with that.
    160
    Sandy Alomar
    2.50%
    4
    Tony Batista
    0.00%
    0
    Craig Biggio
    9.38%
    15
    Barry Bonds
    8.75%
    14
    Jeff Cirillo
    0.00%
    0
    Royce Clayton
    0.00%
    0
    Roger Clemens
    8.75%
    14
    Jeff Conine
    0.63%
    1
    Steve Finley
    6.88%
    11
    Julio Franco
    8.75%
    14
    Marcus Giles
    0.00%
    0
    Shawn Green
    3.13%
    5
    Orlando Hernandez
    1.25%
    2
    Roberto Hernandez
    0.63%
    1
    Byung-Hyun Kim
    0.63%
    1
    Ryan Klesko
    1.25%
    2
    Mike Lieberthal
    1.25%
    2
    Kenny Lofton
    8.13%
    13
    Jose Mesa
    1.25%
    2
    Mike Piazza
    9.38%
    15
    Reggie Sanders
    1.25%
    2
    Curt Schilling
    9.38%
    15
    Aaron Sele
    0.00%
    0
    Sammy Sosa
    8.75%
    14
    Mike Stanton
    0.63%
    1
    Jose Valentin
    0.63%
    1
    David Wells
    6.25%
    10
    Rondell White
    0.00%
    0
    Bob Wickman
    0.63%
    1
    Woody Williams
    0.00%
    0

    The poll is expired.

    Last edited by Freakshow; 06-20-2012, 11:53 PM.
    Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

    Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

  • #2
    Who had the most "all-star" (4.5 WAR) seasons among 2007 retirees?
    Code:
    Rk               Yrs From   To   Age
    1    Barry Bonds  17 1987 2004 22-39
    2     Sammy Sosa   7 1995 2002 26-33
    3   Kenny Lofton   7 1992 1999 25-32
    4    Mike Piazza   6 1993 2000 24-31
    5   Craig Biggio   5 1995 1999 29-33
    6   Steve Finley   4 1991 1999 26-34
    7    Shawn Green   3 1999 2002 26-29
    8   Jeff Cirillo   3 1997 1999 27-29
    9   Julio Franco   3 1989 1991 30-32
    
    Rk               Yrs From   To   Age
    1  Roger Clemens  14 1986 2005 23-42
    2 Curt Schilling  11 1992 2006 25-39
    3    David Wells   3 1995 2000 32-37
    Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

    Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

    Comment


    • #3
      I couldn't even choose 10 because most were either juicers (Hell, I might have even unknowingly picked one or two as I never fully read the Mitchell report or Canseco's book)...or they were simply not good enough, in my opinion, to warrant being on the ballot. With that said, I went with Alomar, Biggio, Franco, Schilling, Valentin, Klesko, Lofton, and Piazza.

      Comment


      • #4
        People I would put on the ballot and people I would vote for aren't necessarily the same group. I voted for most of the named PED-linked guys because they deserve to be on the ballot, (but I hope they hang there for the full 15.)
        3 6 10 21 29 31 35 41 42 44 47

        Comment


        • #5
          I have to concur. Why set an artifical limit of players to add. Even being "tough" I see at least a dozen guys worthy of the ballot.
          Dave Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
          Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
          Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
          Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
          Robin Bill Ernie JEDI

          Comment


          • #6
            I agree, there are usually approximately 15 first year candidates on the ballot.

            Comment


            • #7
              A candidate must play for a minimum of 10 seasons to be eligible for the Hall of Fame, regardless of what you think. It really doesn't make any sense to even list them, considering the fact that they have no chance of being considered. Three of those you listed didn't meet that criteria and are ineligible. They are Marcus Giles, who only played for seven seasons. Plus, Orlando Hernandez and Byung-Hyun Kim who only had nine year careers. Here's a list of candidates eligible for the 2013 B.B.W.A.A HoF Ballot, Jose Valentine & Rondell White are also eligible, although they are the two weakest candidates: www.baseball-reference.com/awards/hof_2013.shtml
              Last edited by NJRob65; 06-21-2012, 09:36 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Captain Cold Nose View Post
                I have to concur. Why set an artifical limit of players to add. Even being "tough" I see at least a dozen guys worthy of the ballot.
                Would you agree that there are not more than ten players here that you might actually vote for, even if the Hall's ten names per ballot limit were eliminated?

                Having said that, I probably should have left it open ended. But I was more interested in who are the better HOF candidates here, more so than in who exactly meets the Hall's lame standards for inclusion on the ballot.
                Last edited by Freakshow; 06-21-2012, 06:36 PM.
                Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

                Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by NJRob65 View Post
                  A candidate must play for a minimum of 10 seasons to be eligible for the Hall of Fame, regardless of what you think. It really doesn't make any sense to even list them, considering the fact that they have no chance of being considered. Three of those you listed didn't meet that criteria and are ineligible. They are Marcus Giles, who only played for seven seasons. Plus, Orlando Hernandez and Byung-Hyun Kim who only had nine year careers. Here's a list of candidates eligible for the 2013 B.B.W.A.A HoF Ballot, Jose Valentine & Rondell White are also eligible, although they are the two weakest candidates: www.baseball-reference.com/awards/hof_2013.shtml
                  I guess great minds think alike; I gave that very same link in post #1.

                  As for the Hall's election rules, if there is one sure thing we've learned it's that they'll be changed. I hope you will take the time to follow the link in my signature and learn more about the 10 seasons rule determining eligibility. In a better world there would be no such rule. By putting it out there that there is a better way, it makes it possible to bring about the desired change.
                  Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

                  Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Freakshow View Post
                    Would you agree that there are not more than ten players here that you might actually vote for, even if the Hall's ten names per ballot limit were eliminated?

                    Having said that, I probably should have left it open ended. But I was more interested in who are the better HOF candidates here, more so than in who exactly meets the Hall's lame standards for inclusion on the ballot.
                    Ok, I can buy that. I likely would not use all 10 votes, should I have them, on new candidates. For the sake of actual HOF-worthiness, a limit works.
                    Dave Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
                    Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
                    Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
                    Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
                    Robin Bill Ernie JEDI

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Freakshow View Post
                      I guess great minds think alike; I gave that very same link in post #1.

                      As for the Hall's election rules, if there is one sure thing we've learned it's that they'll be changed. I hope you will take the time to follow the link in my signature and learn more about the 10 seasons rule determining eligibility. In a better world there would be no such rule. By putting it out there that there is a better way, it makes it possible to bring about the desired change.
                      It's highly unlikely that the 10 year rule will be changed, nor the 75% requirement for election. It certainly won't be changed in time for the 2013 B.B.W.A.A. HoF Election. The fact remains that any candidate who failed to meet the required 10 season career will be on the 2013 B.B.W.A.A. HoF Ballot. Orlando Hernandez is not HoF worthy, even if his career had lasted ten season. Ditto Giles & Kim.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        These guys I would actually put in the HOF:

                        Craig Biggio
                        Barry Bonds
                        Roger Clemens
                        Mike Piazza
                        Curt Schilling

                        These guys had good careers and their inductions wouldn't bother me:

                        Steve Finley
                        Kenny Lofton
                        David Wells

                        This guy had a nice career and is just filler:

                        Julio Franco

                        This guy hit a lot of home runs and wouldn't be a HOFer without steroids, but is better filler than the rest of the people on the list:

                        Sammy Sosa

                        So, that's 5 I'd induct, 3 I wouldn't mind seeing inducted and 2 filler.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by NJRob65 View Post
                          A candidate must play for a minimum of 10 seasons to be eligible for the Hall of Fame, regardless of what you think. It really doesn't make any sense to even list them, considering the fact that they have no chance of being considered. Three of those you listed didn't meet that criteria and are ineligible. They are Marcus Giles, who only played for seven seasons. Plus, Orlando Hernandez and Byung-Hyun Kim who only had nine year careers. Here's a list of candidates eligible for the 2013 B.B.W.A.A HoF Ballot, Jose Valentine & Rondell White are also eligible, although they are the two weakest candidates: www.baseball-reference.com/awards/hof_2013.shtml
                          An exception could easily be made for El Duque since he defected from Cuba and played more than 10 professional seasons in baseball. That exception happened many times over for Negro Leaguers. All it would take is a small push from the Latin community to get him on the ballot. In the case of Orlando Hernandez, he played a total of 19 professional seasons in baseball: 10 in Cuba and 9 in the USA in MLB. Unlike other professional leagues, Hernandez did not have the option to just go and sign with a better team. In fact, when his brother Livan defected, Orlando was banned from the Cuban National Series and feared for his life.

                          EDIT: Here is what Wikipedia has to say about Orlando Hernandez before he defected from Cuba:

                          Hernández played for Industriales of Havana in the Cuban National Series, helping the team win that title in 1992 and 1996. He also represented Havana in Selective Series, on teams including Ciudad Habana and Habaneros. He was 126–47 with 3.05 ERA over his ten-year career in the National Series. His career winning percentage in National and Selective Series, .728, is the league record.[1]
                          Hernández was also a fixture on the Cuba national baseball team, and was part of the gold-winning Olympic team at Barcelona in 1992.
                          In September 1995, Hernández's half-brother Liván Hernández defected from Cuba. Then in July 1996, Orlando Hernández was detained by Cuban state security and interrogated about his relationship to an American sports agent. Three months later, he was banned from Cuban baseball.[2] On Christmas day 1997, Hernández defected from Cuba, departing on a boat from the small city of Caibarién.[3] The U.S. Coast Guard interdicted Hernández, his companion Noris Bosch, another baseball player named Alberto Hernandez (no relation) and five others in Bahamian waters, delivering the entire party to Bahamian authorities in Freeport, who confined them in a detention center for illegal immigrants pending eventual repatriation to Cuba, the usual outcome of such cases.[4] However, after lobbying by sports agent Mark Cubas and representatives of the Cuban-American National Foundation (CANF), then-Attorney General Janet Reno eventually offered both Hernándezes and Bosch a special status known as "humanitarian parole" that would allow them to enter the U.S., based on (1) what were judged to be realistic fears of persecution should they be returned to Cuba and (2) their status as exceptionally talented athletes, a class of person that — like exceptionally talented people in other professions — can qualify for special admission to the U.S. under State Department rules.[5] However, Hernández declined this offer, eventually accepting an offer of asylum in Costa Rica. If he had immediately become a U.S. resident, he would have been subject to baseball's regular draft and could only have negotiated terms with the team that picked him. As a non-U.S. resident, however, he was able to negotiate as a free agent. After two months in Costa Rica, Hernández entered the U.S. on a visa arranged by the New York Yankees, with whom he had negotiated a four-year, $6.6 million contract.[6]
                          Here is more about his Cuban team the Industriales who are the best team in Cuban baseball:

                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industriales

                          Through the communist era in Cuba, 37 players have defected to play in professional baseball elsewhere who were members of the Industriales.
                          Last edited by jjpm74; 06-25-2012, 11:14 AM.

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