Why did it take so long for Johnny Mize to be elected?

[Fuzzy Bear]

What struck me as odd is that Mize could not get even 50% from the BBWAA even once. It's strange because he was a .312 lifetime hitter with power who was on the ballot at a time when people were bemoaning the vanishing .300 hitter.

Mize was penalized because he didn't have a LONG career and didn't hit the "milestones" (500 HRs, 3,000 hits, 1,500 RBI), but he put up Will Clark numbers in a shorter career that was shortened by losing age 30-32 to WWII. He came back from the war at age 33 and had 3 All-Star caliber seasons in which he set career highs in HRs and RBIs in 1947. He was platooned by Casey with the Yankees, but he was, arguably, a better offensive player at that time than Joe Collins, his platoon partner. (Casey loved to platoon, and did so even at times when one would wonder why he did so.) This ending to his career made Mize seem like an "aging star", but not an "aging great" and he was never considered a "superstar", which may have been a concept for the 1960s and beyond. (Steve Garvey, while active, was described as a "superstar infinitely more times than Johnny Mize, a far better player, was; let that sink in for a bit.)

I suspect that when it came to Mize, sportswriters came down with an irrational case of "Only the Greatest" in snubbing him. This, if the case, was ridiculous, because Mize towered over the standards for the induction of players into the REAL Hall of Fame. Mize and Ron Santo are the most outrageous snubs by the writers in my lifetime I can think of. At least Mize was alive to enjoy his induction.

[Bucketfoot]

On a related note, why did it take so long for Eddie Mathews to get in? He was the best third baseman in history at the time he retired, but he didn't get in until his fifth year of eligibility.

He was not palsy Walsy w the press, had an ornery persona and was a boozer. My guess is if he were more press friendly it would have helped. I clearly remember him bitching to the press when he got passed over for Ernie Banks in 77.

[scottmitchell74]

Any writer that didn't vote for Mays, Mantle, Aaron should never vote again.

[Los Bravos]

It wasn't until 1989 that we really start to see players receiving 90+% on a regular basis.

I can remember that the contemporaneous reaction to Morgan and Palmer being first balloteers was surprise bordering on shock.

[dgarza]

I think it's a case by case study, however, we just have to remember that- generally- and, Chadwick knows more than probably anyone about this- it was just much more difficult to get inducted to the HOF the first three decades (juxtaposed with the last several).

Consider this: There were ZERO First Ballot HOFers between 1937-1961.

To be continued....I'm going to look into Mathews in more detail.

I was just looking at this. In the 70s (and even in parts of the 80s), writers were more stingy with their votes than what we've become used to in the last 35 years or so. It wasn't until 1989 that we really start to see players receiving 90+% on a regular basis.

In 1936, 4 of the 5 elected players received 90+% of the vote.

In the last 35 years, from 1989-2023, there have been 36 players receiving 90+% of the vote, averaging 1.03 per year.

But from 1937-1988, for 52 years there were just 7 players to receive 90+% of the vote. I know there were some years they didn't vote, but still, that averages to 0.13 per year. A vast sea change in voting mentality has occurred since then. In the 1970s, Willie Mays was the only player to receive 90+% of the vote.

And in context of the time, although there have been earlier examples such as Harlond Clift and Al Rosen, Eddie Mathews was really the first really HOF-worthy "big-time Slugging primary, Batting Average secondary" 3B to come around. All the other HOF 3B before him batted .300+ (or very close to that) and were defensive or speed guys. Eddie Mathews was a new breed with a "lowly" .271 AVG. Perhaps voters didn't quite know what to make of him as a HOF 3B.

[Floyd Gondolli]

This has always been puzzling to me especially with Ernie Banks being first ballot.

I think it's a case by case study, however, we just have to remember that- generally- and, Chadwick knows more than probably anyone about this- it was just much more difficult to get inducted to the HOF the first three decades (juxtaposed with the last several).

Consider this: There were ZERO First Ballot HOFers between 1937-1961.

To be continued....I'm going to look into Mathews in more detail.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

On a related note, why did it take so long for Eddie Mathews to get in? He was the best third baseman in history at the time he retired, but he didn't get in until his fifth year of eligibility.

This has always been puzzling to me especially with Ernie Banks being first ballot.

[ol' aches and pains]

On a related note, why did it take so long for Eddie Mathews to get in? He was the best third baseman in history at the time he retired, but he didn't get in until his fifth year of eligibility.

[Otis Nixon's Bodyguard]

Probably the best modern eventual HOFer who was not voted in by the BBWAA. My ideal HOF would be smaller than the actual one, but Mize is a no-brainer vote "in." I can't really put my finger on why he had such a hard time...probably no singular reason, but WW2 service was likely the biggest contributing factor.

[Bucketfoot]

Sure. He was put in when I was in High School, I can remember wondering Why it took them so long. Klein and Hack you can understand, but Sheesh its not like he was inferior to Hafey or George Kelly.

[Jar of Flies]

On the OP, is Mize the most overlooked top 50 type position player of all-time by the average baseball fan?
I would think he'd make the very short list, for the reasons many mention in this thread.

[Jar of Flies]

I think Mize had several things working against him. First, though he clearly was the best NL first baseman from the mid-30s through the late 40s, he suffered from missing 3 prime seasons due to WW2. That hurt his counting numbers- always important to HOF voters. And, he only had a couple of top-flight seasons after WW2. So, his run of excellence was all chopped up- through no fault of his own. Then, he became a part-time player (albeit a very valuable one) with the Yankees for the last 5 years of his career- no big home run/RBI numbers- just part-time starting and a bunch of pinch-hitting. So, in the late stages of his career, he sort of just faded away- at least in the public eye. This is the same thing that dogged Duke Snider a decade later, and contributed to his lengthy wait for HOF induction.

Based on his actual performance and the circumstances of the war, Mize clearly deserved a very different fate with HOF voters.

Bump on question regarding Duke Snider's long wait, thanks Big ron!

[leagueleader]

Another fantastic attribute to be considered concerning Mize was his HR to SO ratio. For a slugger it was amazing. In his time with the NY Giants Mize hit
157 HR's while striking out only 163 times. Compare that with Curtis Granderson 2nd in the American League in Homers in 2011 & 2012. Granderson had 41 with
169 SO's in 2011 & 43 with 195 SO's in 2012.

Forget about Granderson compare Mize's NY Giant ratio with any slugger & your lucky to come up with anyone other than DiMaggio & maybe O'Doul if he's considered a slugger.

[Imapotato]

I dont know if it's just me but voters in the 50's or 60's didn't seem to give players much WW2 war credit.

I agree with this

AND

his position didn't help...back then they could only compare players to their contemporaries, so they need to be cut some slack...and if you ask the writers and baseball people back then...they probably brought up 10 or more 1B they thought were better

Freakshow,

I actually think you are correct in being prejudice vs all or nothing sluggers...back then I think they wanted only the Defensive+Offense guys in...and defense took precendence, as you can see with Bresnahan,Maraniville,Carey and Schalk

[Freakshow]

Bill James wrote how once Hack Wilson (1979) and Chuck Klein (1980) were elected, there was no way they could justify keeping Mize out any longer.

Mize's time on the ballot was not a great one for electing players. Numerous run-offs and elections every other year in the early going probably hurt him. They went from clearing a log jam shortly before he made to the ballot to just not electing anyone save first-year candidates. Johnny Mize was a victim of cirumstance. Pure speculation on my part, mind you.

Maybe the best of the 20th Century VC picks, if that's any consolation.

This is getting closer to the underlying reasons for Mize's late election. Yes, a victim of circumstances. And it's seldom just one thing.

--After 1930 the NL went to a deader ball, so from 1931-41 the NL had a much lower offensive environment than the AL. According to BB-Ref, Mize's hitting AIR was 101 in his career. This compares to 113 for Greenberg, a huge difference, inflating Hank's raw numbers.
--The Cardinals under Rickey had a vast farm system. This, plus a near career-ending injury, delayed his MLB debut until age 23. I believe he was probably a major league hitter two years earlier than that. In addition, the Cardinals' all-star first baseman Ripper Collins was blocking the way.
--Mize was soft-spoken by nature. Easygoing. Rarely a colorful quote, he did not endear himself to sportswriters.
--He wasn't much active in baseball after his playing days. A couple brief forays into coaching. Retired to his little hometown in 1974.
--When he came on the ballot the voting was bi-yearly. (No elections in 59-61-63-65.) So he was only voted on 11 years by the BBWAA, making it harder for less obvious candidates to build momentum to election.
--Like Greenberg, he was never seen as an all-around player. "Slow of foot", "defensive liability" are the sorts of phrases that dogged him.
--The prejudice against sluggers lingered into the 1970's. The old-time "insiders" were incessantly railing against the one-dimensional sluggers, no matter how huge their offensive contribution.
--Mize was first considered by the VC in 1979 (not 1976). At that time players had to wait five years after their BBWAA eligibility expired. As has been said, the lowering of Hall standards earlier in the decade forced the VC to elect all of the obviously better sluggers; Wilson and Klein were long-time favorites so they went in first.