Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

today's second basemen

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • today's second basemen

    Utley, Cano and Pedroia all have world series rings


    Pedroia (at 28): 938 hits, an MVP, 115 OPS+

    Utley (at 33): 1202 hits, 127 OPS+

    Cano (29): 1,353 hits, 121 OPS+




    will any make the Hall?
    18
    Cano will
    44.44%
    8
    Pedroia will
    22.22%
    4
    Utley will
    22.22%
    4
    none make it
    11.11%
    2

  • #2
    Originally posted by Blackout View Post
    Utley, Cano and Pedroia all have world series rings


    Pedroia (at 28): 938 hits, an MVP, 115 OPS+

    Utley (at 33): 1202 hits, 127 OPS+

    Cano (29): 1,353 hits, 121 OPS+




    will any make the Hall?
    Utley has almost no shot, as he hasn't done much at all in the last 3 seasons, and he's already 33 years old. Unless he has incredible longevity and comes back strong, his counting stats will not be there. Pedroia can't seem to find consistency. Cano has a pretty good shot, as he is very durable, and has about the same numbers as Utley, but is 4 years younger. He has also found a good consistent level. Will probably not improve, but really doesnt need to.

    Comment


    • #3
      make that 1,354 hits

      Cano hit a home run today

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by willshad View Post
        Utley has almost no shot, as he hasn't done much at all in the last 3 seasons, and he's already 33 years old. Unless he has incredible longevity and comes back strong, his counting stats will not be there. Pedroia can't seem to find consistency. Cano has a pretty good shot, as he is very durable, and has about the same numbers as Utley, but is 4 years younger. He has also found a good consistent level. Will probably not improve, but really doesnt need to.
        Utley deserves to go in, but finishing weakly isn't helping. Pedroia may go after a wait. Cano is the guy with the most momentum.

        Here's a question: How does Dan Uggla stand up to these guys?
        "I do not care if half the league strikes. Those who do it will encounter quick retribution. All will be suspended and I don't care if it wrecks the National League for five years. This is the United States of America and one citizen has as much right to play as another. The National League will go down the line with Robinson whatever the consequences. You will find if you go through with your intention that you have been guilty of complete madness."

        NL President Ford Frick, 1947

        Comment


        • #5
          My vote should be "Cano might make it". That represents my true feelings on the matter.
          Your Second Base Coach
          Garvey, Lopes, Russell, and Cey started 833 times and the Dodgers went 498-335, for a .598 winning percentage. That’s equal to a team going 97-65 over a season. On those occasions when at least one of them missed his start, the Dodgers were 306-267-1, which is a .534 clip. That works out to a team going 87-75. So having all four of them added 10 wins to the Dodgers per year.
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5hCIvMule0

          Comment


          • #6
            another HR by Cano today to boost his HOF chances

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Fuzzy Bear View Post
              Utley deserves to go in, but finishing weakly isn't helping. Pedroia may go after a wait. Cano is the guy with the most momentum.

              Here's a question: How does Dan Uggla stand up to these guys?
              no he doesn't. in his peak he was every bit as good as cano and pedroia (better than pedroia actually) but longevity belongs to greatness too. and he not only had an early decline due to injuries but also a quite late start.

              cano is well on pace although he is still a hacker and likely won't learn patience in his lifetime. unless something utley like (body falling apart) happens soon (next 2-3 seasons) he will make it.

              pedroia is not as good as the two other if you compare peaks but he has a solid chance on making it on counting stats, is probably the best defender of the 3 and has that MVP title. he needs to play well into his mid 30s though.
              I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

              Comment


              • #8
                It depends on how Uggla finishes up in Atlanta. All he has to show for his career so far is some slugging prowess. While 421 extra-base hits in 6-and-a-half seasons is excellent, that's all he has going for him. His batting average, which was so-so to begin with, has nose-dived in Atlanta. Only his abililty to take walks is keeping him afloat if he's not slugging. Plus, his defense is terrible overall.

                He simply isn't in the class of Cano, Utley or Pedroia. I'm not sure he's better than Brandon Phillips right now.
                46 wins to match last year's total

                Comment


                • #9
                  Cano could end this year with 34 career WAR, including 20 in 2010-2012. IF you assume he is at a sustainable pace and can repeat this for the next 6 years, then have a decline, he could end with around 80 WAR. That's an easy call, if you assume that.

                  Unfortunately, I'd have more confidence in that (sustainablility) if he was pulling in more WAR from his OBP (aka, walks) or his defense. As is, even a small decline in his power could drastically hurt his numbers, so I'm still on the fence. He would help his cause a lot with a massive MVP season or an insane post season, unless he plans on playing until age 40+ for counting stats.

                  As one person noted, it depends on his longevity.
                  "It's better to look good, than be good."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Chase Utley is currently tied with Jackie Robinson for 3rd All-Time in OPS for 2nd Basemen with a .883 OPS

                    Hornsby 1.010
                    Gehringer .884
                    J Robinson .883
                    Utley .883
                    Jeff Kent .855
                    Grantham .854
                    Eddie Collins .853
                    Tony Lazzeri .846

                    Barring a horrendous decline, Utley will likely finish in the top 6 in OPS among 2nd basemen. He's come back strong so far this year. With a solid finish to his career he'll likely get in the HOF. He has 7 Home Runs in 11 World Series games and a 1.183 World Series OPS to go with it, along with 5 All-Star games.

                    If he retired today, he'd be considered one of the greats who didn't get in. He needs more longevity, more counting stats (300 HR's would be good but might be a real reach at this point as he currently has 189). If he can stay healthy for the most part over the next 5 years and continue to accumulate stats, I think he has a real shot.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Might want to consider Ian Kinsler as well.

                      Most WAR, born 1977+, 45% career G at 2B
                      Code:
                      Rk             Player WAR/pos OPS+ Rfield Born   PA From   To   Age
                      1         Chase Utley    50.4  127    135 1978 4792 2003 2012 24-33
                      2       Robinson Cano    29.8  121      0 1982 4747 2005 2012 22-29
                      3      Orlando Hudson    28.2   97     93 1977 5365 2002 2012 24-34
                      4      Dustin Pedroia    26.8  115     49 1983 3531 2006 2012 22-28
                      5         Ian Kinsler    26.6  113     22 1982 3816 2006 2012 24-30
                      6       Brian Roberts    25.9  102      7 1977 5609 2001 2012 23-34
                      7          Mark Ellis    25.7   95     95 1977 4736 2002 2012 25-35
                      8         Ben Zobrist    21.9  116     57 1981 2779 2006 2012 25-31
                      9    Brandon Phillips    20.1   97     53 1981 4663 2002 2012 21-31
                      10         Aaron Hill    18.8   97     46 1982 4095 2005 2012 23-30
                      11          Dan Uggla    18.6  115    -40 1980 4373 2006 2012 26-32
                      Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

                      Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Looking at that solid crop of 2B has me thinking: Freakshow, when did we have the most 2B with 50+ career rWAR playing at the same time, and how many were there?
                        http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploa...-showalter.gif

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          What'd I tell you; Brandon Phillips is better.
                          46 wins to match last year's total

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by J W View Post
                            Looking at that solid crop of 2B has me thinking: Freakshow, when did we have the most 2B with 50+ career rWAR playing at the same time, and how many were there?
                            Here are the 18 2B with 50 career WAR arranged by birth year:
                            Code:
                            Rk              Player WAR/pos OPS+ Rfield Born    PA From   To
                            1           Nap Lajoie   102.2  150     83 1874 10460 1896 1916
                            2        Eddie Collins   118.5  142     35 1887 12040 1906 1930
                            3       Rogers Hornsby   124.6  175     54 1896  9481 1915 1937
                            4       Frankie Frisch    68.0  110    140 1898 10099 1919 1937
                            5    Charlie Gehringer    76.6  124     34 1903 10244 1924 1942
                            6         Billy Herman    52.5  112     55 1909  8639 1931 1947
                            7           Joe Gordon    54.0  120    150 1915  6538 1938 1950
                            8      Jackie Robinson    58.7  132     81 1919  5804 1947 1956
                            9           Joe Morgan    97.1  132    -49 1943 11329 1963 1984
                            10           Rod Carew    76.6  131     16 1945 10550 1967 1985
                            11         Bobby Grich    67.3  125     81 1949  8220 1970 1986
                            12     Willie Randolph    63.0  104    114 1954  9461 1975 1992
                            13        Lou Whitaker    71.4  117     75 1957  9967 1977 1995
                            14       Ryne Sandberg    64.9  114     60 1959  9282 1981 1997
                            15        Craig Biggio    62.6  112    -94 1965 12504 1988 2007
                            16           Jeff Kent    53.9  123    -23 1968  9537 1992 2008
                            17      Roberto Alomar    63.1  116    -34 1968 10400 1988 2004
                            18         Chase Utley    50.4  127    135 1978  4792 2003 2012
                            There never seems to be more than three at one time:

                            Hornsby/Frisch/Gehringer in the 1920's
                            Morgan/Carew/Grich in the 1970's
                            Randlph/Whitaker/Sandberg in the 1980's
                            Biggio/Kent/Alomar in the 1990's
                            Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

                            Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by drstrangelove View Post
                              Cano could end this year with 34 career WAR, including 20 in 2010-2012. IF you assume he is at a sustainable pace and can repeat this for the next 6 years, then have a decline, he could end with around 80 WAR. That's an easy call, if you assume that.

                              Unfortunately, I'd have more confidence in that (sustainablility) if he was pulling in more WAR from his OBP (aka, walks) or his defense. As is, even a small decline in his power could drastically hurt his numbers, so I'm still on the fence. He would help his cause a lot with a massive MVP season or an insane post season, unless he plans on playing until age 40+ for counting stats.

                              As one person noted, it depends on his longevity.
                              You forgot the easy way in: 3,000 hits.
                              Lou Gehrig is the Truest Yankee of them all!

                              Comment

                              Ad Widget

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X