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AIR HOF project, 1st election (1936)

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  • AIR HOF project, 1st election (1936)

    This is the first election of the AIR (Actual Induction Rate) HOF. We're going to elect folks at the pace Cooperstown did, which means 5 players and no contributors for 1936.

    This election will be open until Saturday September 22 at 7 am EST.


    I'll include this information in every first post. After this, I'll display the format of the posts at the beginning of the project, though for this opening post, some won't mean much.
    Last edited by jalbright; 09-07-2012, 02:48 PM.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  • #2
    The Rules:

    1) BBF users in good standing may participate, provided they have not been banned from multiple projects in this forum. Anyone who has been told his or her votes will not count in more than one project in this forum will not have his or her vote counted unless he or she applies to the project manager for the right to vote and gets that request granted. However, if there is more than one vote being cast from any one computer or IP, it must be cleared in advance. Should there be unannounced multiple votes from the same IP, I will investigate the circumstances, and all user names involved may be barred from this project as a result, and all but one of the multiple usernames permanently banned from the site. I only anticipate exceptions for family members living in the same home, but I will entertain requests on other bases. Please note that I and the other mods who participate in the project have the capability of determining the IP from which posts come, and I for one intend to monitor same. I have had to deal with a single user manipulating a project with multiple votes, and I don't intend to repeat the experience.

    2) Elections will require a eight (8) voter quorum. If we do not get ten voters and there are candidate(s) who would be elected no matter what the voters needed to make a quorum did, those candidate(s) will be inducted. Otherwise, no one will be inducted. Further, if we fail to elect a full complement of candidates for the ballot in question in two of any four consecutive elections, the portion(s) of the project failing to meet the election requirement will end. If, for instance, we're doing fine on the player end but not the contributor end, I would drop the contributor end under this rule.

    3) We will start in 1936, just as Cooperstown did. Each year Cooperstown elected a player, we will vote for our top 15 players ranked #1 through 15, Points will be awarded on the basis of 21 minus the rank, so first will be worth 20 ponts, 2d 19 points and so on down to 6 pts for 15th. We will induct the same number of players the Hall did in that year. Some years, the Hall inducted no one, and those years, we will not either. If a voter does not number his selections, I will try to get him/her to do so. If they do not do so before the end of the election period, I may in my sole discretion invalidate the ballot. I have included this provision in order to ease the process of recording the votes. On another point, I know, the 1936 backlog is huge--but that was a historical issue they couldn't avoid, so neither will we.

    4) We will also have a contributor ballot, and will elect as many as were inducted that year. Contributors will be ranked 1 through6, with points awarded 9-8-7-6-5-4. Voters may choose to participate in either one of the ballots or both. There will be many years without a contributor ballot, as many years no contributors were inducted.

    5) It is permissible to vote for a candidate on both the contributor and player lists.

    6) You are allowed to change your ballot at any time the voting is open. However, if you change your ballot, you've got to notify me (jalbright) by PM or by a new post in the voting thread, or the changes likely will not be registered.

    7) Players will become eligible at the earliest of the following three criteria:
    a) the year of death plus two will be used if that yields an earlier date;
    b) the first missed season after the player reaches age 40; and
    c) five years after the player’s career ended.
    Please note that the Negro Leagues will be considered ended in 1952 for purposes of this rule.

    8) Contributors become eligible at age 65 or in the year of death plus two. whichever comes first.

    9) Each election will run for approximately two weeks unless expressly altered by the project manager, contributors and players done simultaneously.

    10) No one is excluded from being a candidate, regardless of the league they played in, except those elected in either the contributor or player ballots. At that point, they are removed from further consideration. If there are players who returned to the Negro Leagues or Japan after going to the majors, the departure from the majors will be their career end date for purposes of this project.

    11) The standard for including a player on one's ballot is that the player must in the voter's opinion be among the very best eligible players (preferably the number voted on, but if a voter wishes to support someone they feel is 18th in a 15 person ballot instead of one of the top 15, it's too close for anyone to reasonably object. On the other hand, supporting the 30th best eligible candidate on a 15 person ballot is probably beyond the pale). I reserve the power to invalidate ballots which I do not feel are a reasonably knowledgeable, good faith effort to rank the players. One issue I am quite concerned about is that I do not want to see what clearly appear to be attempts to manipulate the ballot so as to elect a candidate. In isolation, I probably could live with this, but if it became a widely used tactic, the project would devolve into something I have no desire to be associated with. Moreover, I think that this position asks everyone else to cast legitimate votes so that you can manipulate the system to favor your pet candidates. I cannot accept that, as it strikes me as unfair to other voters. For example, you can't expect to favor even a legitimate HOF candidate like Bill Dahlen over Babe Ruth to get Dahlen elected without being asked to provide a reasonable justification for ranking Dahlen over Ruth. If you can provide a reasonable justification in that scenario, the ballot will stand. If not, you will be asked to make a change. I realize voters will sometimes have idiosyncratic choices, and I try to allow for that. However, a clear flouting of a consensus is apt to be met with a request that the ballot be justified pursuant to this rule. Certainly, a reasonable justification does not indicate in essence simply that you want Dahlen elected. Furthermore, if I invalidate multiple ballots by the same individual as failing to meet this rule, that individual will forever lose the right to have his/her ballots counted. Voters are encouraged to consider character, sportsmanship, and compliance with the rules and spirit of baseball in their rankings of players.

    12) I will post lists of eligible players and contributors before each election. If you have a question about the eligibility of a candidate, please ask. I will provide a list of future eligibility dates as well.

    13) My eligibility lists come from all persons in the BBF HOF, BBTF Hall of Merit, and Cooperstown, plus all persons getting a vote in a BBF HOF election in the past year and a half or in a BBWAA election. This is a relatively comprehensive list, and thus I must request that if you want another candidate included, you provide some justification for why said candidate is worthy of getting a vote in this project. The main area I think this might come into play is if a voter supports a person who was eligible for the final selections from the recent pre WWII or Negro League committees but not on my master list. That fact alone would serve as ample justification for putting said candidate on the list. We may learn more about Cuban ball or what have you and thus include others after a case is made for them, however. The contributor list is undoubtedly not as comprehensive, and this fact will be taken into consideration. For players, any request for a multiple time all-star in the all-star era will be approved. Players of that quality will generally be approved without much ado. However, when a player lacks that kind of qualification, I will likely ask for you to get a second from among our voters via a post in the current election thread. When in doubt, I will also require a second for suggested contributors. If a second is forthcoming, the player will be added. If not, the request will be rejected. I want to limit requests and seconds to players or contributors you actually might vote for.

    14) Other than the sportsmanship and character issues, players are to be evaluated solely upon their play. I would prefer that if a player is qualified by his play standing alone that he be elected on that basis. However, a candidate may only be elected either as a contributor or a player, but not both. Contributors are the area where the entire body of work during his career in the sport, including his play, managing, scouting, executive, writing, broadcasting or other work in the sport is relevant. Contributors are to be ranked based on who the voter thinks is most worthy of induction into the Contributor group in this project.

    15) Any ballot with two (2) or more spots unfilled with eligible candidates is invalid. In the event of the listing of ineligible names, I will try to notify the voter so that he/she can correct the ballot before the end of the voting period. If the change is made timely, it will count. If not, and there are two or more invalid names, the ballot will not be considered valid. If there is only one, the ineligible name will be stricken and all names after it on the affected ballot will be moved up one spot.

    16) Any players listed beyond the 15th place for any ballot will be ignored. If more than one person is listed as tied for the last available place and the ballot is oversize, all names will be dropped, which may lead to the invalidation of the ballot.

    17) Ties are not permitted in ballot listings. I reserve the right to invalidate ballots for use of ties in the rankings, be it within a single ballot or over the course of several ballots. If the voter does not correct such a listing voluntarily, except in the case of an oversize ballot tie for the last eligible place, if do not invalidate the ballot, I will choose the placement of the two "tied" candidates, generally preferring the candidate preferred by the other voters.

    18) For any ties between candidates straddling the in/out line of selections, the first tiebreaker is the number of candidates. If there Is still a tie for first, the next consideration is the ranking of the candidates by the ballots cast. If there are more than two candidates tied, use a 2-1-0 or whatever is appropriate for the number of players tied system. If a voter does not list a candidate, he receives zero points in the tiebreaker procedure. Once one person separates from the tied group, restart with the remaining candidates until there are only as many candidates as the rules call for being elected. If it is still tied after that, those with the most #1 votes as the next step, then the most #2 votes and so on to see if that breaks the tie. If not, we will induct all candidates who remain tied at that point.

    19) One thing we're going to have to be aware of is the timeline in the case of at least a few contributors. Two which jump out at me are Buck O'Neill, 1976, and Branch Rickey, 1946. I intend to eventually vote for both men, but in 1946, Jackie Robinson was still in Montreal. Really, Branch should wait until at least 1947 after Jackie's success in the majors to get credit for that move. If you think Rickey belongs in the top 5 in 1946 without his role in breaking the color line, that's fine--but he shouldn't get credit for that important success until it actually happened. Buck O'Neill did some important things up until 1976, but after that he was in Ken Burns' Baseball and he was instrumental in the establishment of the Negro Leagues Hall of Fame (both occurred in or around 1994). If you think he belongs based on accomplishments before those two things, that's perfectly acceptable, but please don't credit him with them before they actually happened.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

    Comment


    • #3
      The 1936 class has no contributors, since none were elected. The player list is large:

      For at least this election, I've bolded names who made one of the following "Halls": Cooperstown, BOB, BBF HOF, Progressive project, the Single Ballot HOF and the BBTF Hall of Merit:

      Adams Babe
      Adams Sparky
      Alexander Pete
      Altrock Nick
      Anson Cap
      Archer Jimmy
      Austin Jimmy
      Baker Frank
      Bancroft Dave
      Barnes Ross

      Barry Jack
      Battin Joe
      Beaumont Ginger
      Beckley Jake
      Bender Chief
      Bennett Charlie

      Bergen Marty
      Bigbee Carson
      Bodie Ping
      Bond Tommy
      Bradley Bill
      Breitenstein Ted
      Bresnahan Roger
      Brouthers Dan
      Brown Mordecai
      Browning Pete
      Burkett Jesse

      Burns George
      Bush Donie
      Bush Joe
      Cadore Leon
      Camnitz Howie
      Carey Max
      Carrigan Bill
      Caruthers Bob
      Chance Frank

      Chapman Ray
      Chase Hal
      Chesbro Jack
      Childs Cupid

      Cicotte Eddie
      Clarke Fred
      Clarkson John

      Coakley Andy
      Cobb Ty
      Collins Eddie
      Collins Jimmy

      Collins Shano
      Connor Roger
      Conroy Wid
      Coombs Jack
      Cooper Wilbur
      Coveleski Stan
      Crandall Doc
      Cravath Gavvy
      Crawford Sam
      Creighton Jim
      Criger Lou
      Cross Lave
      Cruise Walt
      Cummings Candy
      Dahlen Bill

      Daubert Jake
      Davis George
      Davis Harry
      Delahanty Ed
      Dinneen Bill
      Doak Bill
      Donlin Mike
      Donovan Bill
      Dooin Red
      Doyle Jack
      Doyle Larry
      Duffy Hugh

      Dugan Joe
      Dunlap Fred
      Ehmke Howard
      Elberfeld Kid
      Ens Jewel
      Evers Johnny
      Ewing Buck
      Faber Red

      Falkenberg Cy
      Fletcher Art
      Flick Elmer

      Foster Eddie
      Foster Rube
      Fraser Chick
      Galvin Pud
      Glasscock Jack
      Gleason Kid

      Gonzalez Mike
      Gore George
      Gowdy Hank
      Grant Eddie
      Grant Frank
      Griffith Clark
      Grimes Burleigh
      Groh Heinie

      Hahn Noodles
      Hamilton Billy
      Hargrave Bubbles
      Harris Bucky
      Heilmann Harry
      Herzog Buck
      Hill Pete
      Hinchman Bill
      Hines Paul
      Hooper Harry
      Hoy Dummy

      Huggins Miller
      Irwin Charlie
      Jackson Joe
      Jennings Hughie
      Johnson Home Run
      Johnson Walter
      Jones Charley

      Jones Fielder
      Jones Sam P.
      Jordan Tim
      Joss Addie
      Judge Joe
      Keefe Tim
      Keeler Willie
      Kelley Joe
      Kelly King

      Kerr Dickie
      Killefer Bill
      Kilroy Matt
      Kling Johnny
      Knabe Otto
      Kremer Ray
      LaJoie Nap
      Lange Bill
      Larkin Henry
      Latham Arlie
      Leach Tommy
      Leever Sam
      Lewis Duffy
      Lloyd Pop
      Lobert Hans
      Long Herman
      Lowe Bobby
      Luque Dolf
      Lyons Denny
      Magee Sherry
      Maranville Rabbit
      Marquard Rube
      Mathews Bobby
      Mathewson Christy
      Mays Carl

      McAleer Jimmy
      McCarthy Tommy
      McCormick Jim
      McGinnity Joe

      McGowan Bill
      McGraw John
      McInnis Stuffy
      McLean Larry
      McPhee Bid
      McVey Cal

      Meadows Lee
      Mendez Jose
      Meusel Bob
      Milan Clyde
      Miller Dots
      Miller Hack
      Moore Dobie
      Moran Pat
      Mostil Johnny
      Mullane Tony
      Murphy Danny
      Murray Red
      Nehf Art
      Nichols Kid
      Oeschger Joe
      O'Leary Charlie
      O'Neill Tip
      O'Neill Steve
      O'Rourke Jim
      Orr Dave
      Pabor Charlie
      Paskert Dode
      Pearce Dickey
      Peckinpaugh Roger
      Peitz Heinie
      Pennock Herb
      Perdue Hub
      Phillippe Deacon
      Pike Lip
      Pipp Wally
      Plank Eddie
      Poles Spotswood
      Quinn Jack
      Radbourn Charlie

      Raymond Bugs
      Remsen Jack
      Rice Sam
      Richardson Hardy

      Ring Jimmy
      Ritchey Claude
      Rixey Eppa
      Robertson Dave
      Roush Edd
      Rucker Nap
      Rudolph Dick
      Rusie Amos
      Ryan Jimmy
      Santop Louis

      Schacht Al
      Schaefer Germany
      Schalk Ray
      Schang Wally

      Schreckengost Ossie
      Schulte Frank
      Scott Everett
      Scott Jack
      Severeid Hank
      Seymour Cy
      Sheckard Jimmy
      Shocker Urban
      Sisler George

      Smith Earl
      Smith Sherry
      Sparks Tully
      Speaker Tris
      Stahl Jake
      Start Joe
      Steinfeldt Harry
      Stovey Harry
      Street Gabby
      Sutton Ezra
      Sweeney Bill
      Tannehill Jesse
      Tenney Fred
      Thomas Ira
      Thompson Sam
      Tiernan Mike
      Tinker Joe
      Toney Fred
      Torriente Cristobal
      Turner Terry
      Van Haltren George
      Vance Dazzy
      Veach Bobby
      Waddell Rube
      Wagner Honus
      Wallace Bobby
      Walsh Ed

      Wambsganss Bill
      Ward John M.
      Warfield Frank
      Welch Mickey
      Wheat Zack
      White Deacon

      White Sol
      White Will
      Williams Cy
      Williams Ken
      Williams Smoky Joe
      Williamson Ned
      Willis Vic
      Witt Whitey
      Wood Joe
      Wright George
      Yerkes Steve
      Young Cy
      Youngs Ross

      Zimmer Chief
      Last edited by jalbright; 09-07-2012, 03:38 PM.
      Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
      Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
      A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

      Comment


      • #4
        This post would be where I'd post the previous election results, but obviously, we don't have any such results.
        Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
        Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
        A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

        Comment


        • #5
          Here is where I'd post the alphabetical list of those already inducted, but we don't have any yet.
          Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
          Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
          A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

          Comment


          • #6
            Here is where I'd post the year by year list of inductions, but again we don't have any yet.
            Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
            Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
            A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

            Comment


            • #7
              Here's where I'll list the candidates eligible for this election. I won't bother here since it's a duplicate of the new eligibles.
              Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
              Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
              A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

              Comment


              • #8
                My ballot

                Players
                1. Ty Cobb
                2. Honus Wagner
                3. Walter Johnson
                4. Tris Speaker
                5. Eddie Collins
                6. Cy Young
                7. Smoky Joe Williams
                8. Nap Lajoie
                9. Kid Nichols
                10. Pete Alexander
                11. Pop Lloyd
                12. Roger Connor
                13. Dan Brouthers
                14. Cap Anson
                15. Christy Mathewson
                Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                Comment


                • #9
                  At about the one week mark, I'll post the guys who will become eligible for the next election (like Babe Ruth for 1937).
                  Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                  Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                  A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by jalbright View Post
                    My ballot

                    Players
                    1. Ty Cobb
                    2. Honus Wagner
                    3. Walter Johnson
                    4. Tris Speaker
                    5. Eddie Collins
                    6. Cy Young
                    7. Smoky Joe Williams
                    8. Nap Lajoie
                    9. Kid Nichols
                    10. Pete Alexander
                    11. Pop Lloyd
                    12. Roger Connor
                    13. Dan Brouthers
                    14. Cap Anson
                    15. Christy Mathewson
                    I thought Negro League players couldn't be elected until after 1952.
                    "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

                    "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Nope. The note about that is for those who played in the Negro Leagues after 1952 and not in the majors. Basically, my sense is that by that time, the leagues rarely had enough of a concentration of top talent to push off the end of their careers. I'm no fan of making Negro Leaguers experience a delay beyond what other players experience in the projects I run. I'm glad you pointed this out so I can try to remove any confusion.
                      Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                      Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                      A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        To help quell down the list, maybe you could boldface who is in the HOF, who is in the BBFHOF, and maybe who is in the HOM and Progressive HOF? Another way to go would be to just list candidates who have been elected to one of those halls (at least for the players through 2000) as it's very unlikely that anyone not in one of those halls would get serious consideration here. I'd like to participate, but that initial list is prohibitively long, IMO.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I can bold those names in this election, but I'm not sure I'll continue it after this election. The lists of new candidates won't be as large after this, though a few years may be fairly large when the Hall elected no one for a time. I'll probably bold similar lists for the 1937 contributors. I will say that posting prior results will help in this regard in future elections.
                          Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                          Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                          A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            1.) Ty Cobb
                            2.) Walter Johnson
                            3.) Honus Wagner
                            4.) Cy Young
                            5.) Tris Speaker
                            6.) Pete Alexander
                            7.) Eddie Collins
                            8.) Nap Lajoie
                            9.) Pops Lloyd
                            10.) Christy Mathewson
                            11.) Cap Anson
                            12.) Kid Nichols
                            13.) Harry Heilmann
                            14.) Dan Brouthers
                            15.) Smokey Joe Williams
                            "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

                            "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              1. Honus Wagner
                              2. Ty Cobb
                              3. Walter Johnson
                              4. Eddie Collins
                              5. Cy Young
                              6. Smokey Joe Williams
                              7. King Kelly
                              8. Pop Lloyd
                              9. Nap Lajoie
                              10. Christy Mathewson
                              11. Jim O'Rourke
                              12. Dan Brouthers
                              13. George Sisler
                              14. Zach Wheat
                              15. Cap Anson

                              Comment

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