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A bunch of guys: Hall of Fame?

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  • A bunch of guys: Hall of Fame?

    http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog/...ve-players-mlb

    It's behind the paywall, so I'm not sure what the protocol is for posting highlights?

    Essentially, he breaks players into categories:

    LOCKS
    A-Rod (depending on PED's)
    Jeter
    Rivera
    Chipper
    Thome
    Vizquel
    Pujols
    Cabrera
    Halladay

    PROBABLY
    Rolen

    MAYBE
    Big Papi
    Johan Santana
    Helton
    Beltran!
    Andruw Jones
    Adrian Beltre
    Utley

    GETTING CLOSE
    Konerko
    Sabathia
    Hudson

    PROBABLY NOT, BUT GETTING CLOSER
    Hunter
    Rollins

    Thoughts? Comments?

  • #2
    It does look pretty accurate, the only guy I would move up a rank is Tim Hudson.
    "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

    "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

    Comment


    • #3
      I don't see Beltre getting in. He has impressive offensive seasons and a good arm, but he never had a dynamite run. Even now, he's likely to decline. It would be foolish to put in a guy because of a few strings of seasons equivalent to 130 OPS+. You'd have to open the doors for so many other players
      "Allen Sutton Sothoron pitched his initials off today."--1920s article

      Comment


      • #4
        Not a terrible list. I am not sold Vizquel will make it. I also think Konerko isn't that close and CC is a lot closer. Hunter and Rollins have 0% chance.

        I disagree re: Beltre. Unless he has a huge and fast decline, he will be a 400+ HR guy with many gold gloves, All Star appearances, and probably more postseason recognition if he stays with Texas. Had a monster 2004, which would have netted him the MVP w/o Bonds. His sabermetric stats are very favorable too, and 15 years from now, I think newer metrics will be used much more by the voters in HOF voting than they are now.

        I just don't see a 400 HR 3B with an outstanding defensive reputaion not getting in.
        1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

        1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

        1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


        The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
        The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

        Comment


        • #5
          I didn't read the article, but I am assuming that Ichiro was left off for some specific reason.

          Also, Berkman and Holliday have better shots than several of the guys they listed.
          1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

          1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

          1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


          The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
          The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Matthew C. View Post
            I didn't read the article, but I am assuming that Ichiro was left off for some specific reason.

            Also, Berkman and Holliday have better shots than several of the guys they listed.
            Adam Dunn and Paul Konerko have a better shot than Lance Berkman and Matt Holliday.
            "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

            "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by chicagowhitesox1173 View Post
              Adam Dunn and Paul Konerko have a better shot than Lance Berkman and Matt Holliday.
              Where did I say otherwise? I didn't realize that "several guys on the list" meant "Dunn" and "Konerko". Dunn isn't even on the list at all, so why would you include him?

              I was referring to Rollins, Hunter, and Ortiz, who with the PED cloud has little chance given Bonds and Clemens will struggle to make it.

              I don't think Berkman will make it either - but niether will 90% of the guys below the "lock" section.

              Konerko won't make it either, btw. I think Holliday has a decent chance. Less than 50%, but a chance.
              1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

              1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

              1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


              The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
              The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

              Comment


              • #8
                Those MAYBE and PROBABLY groups need to be balanced out. Helton is one, for example, that should be moved up into PROBABLY.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by dgarza View Post
                  Those MAYBE and PROBABLY groups need to be balanced out. Helton is one, for example, that should be moved up into PROBABLY.
                  With no MVPs, no huge milestones, and PED whispers, Helton will not make it, much less "probably" make it.
                  1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                  1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                  1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                  The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                  The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I would put Vizquel on the maybe list. Surprised (pleasantly ) that Rolen is probably. Papi has 0 chance he's a DH with roid allegations. Beltran, Helton and Andruw seem about right even if I think they all crush Vizquel. Not a bad list overall, at least he acknowledges many guys that superficially seem underrated like Beltre and Utley.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Lance Berkman and Matt Holliday weren't listed either. And I would say Konerko has a pretty good chance of making it in.
                      "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

                      "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Seems like a lot of HOF predictions are done so with short term lenses. In the long term (40... 50+ years), some of these guys have better chances than the author thinks. Concerns of today will fade to a degree. I myself would not be so arrogant to assume that my pains and concerns should be those of future generations.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by chicagowhitesox1173 View Post
                          Lance Berkman and Matt Holliday weren't listed either. And I would say Konerko has a pretty good chance of making it in.
                          Much, much, much bigger 1B stars (McGriff, Mattingly, Hodges) didn't make it. Konerko has to have 500 HRs to make it, and I don't think he will get there.
                          Last edited by Bothrops Atrox; 09-10-2012, 07:53 AM.
                          1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                          1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                          1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                          The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                          The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by dgarza View Post
                            Seems like a lot of HOF predictions are done so with short term lenses. In the long term (40... 50+ years), some of these guys have better chances than the author thinks. Concerns of today will fade to a degree. I myself would not be so arrogant to assume that my pains and concerns should be those of future generations.
                            Perhaps. But the current PED paradigm is here to stay for a while. When the paradigm changes, so will my guesswork.
                            1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                            1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                            1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                            The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                            The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by chicagowhitesox1173 View Post
                              Lance Berkman and Matt Holliday weren't listed either.
                              I would have liked to have seen Abreu listed as well.

                              Comment

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