Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

HOVG Round 1 (A-C)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • HOVG Round 1 (A-C)

    One of my favorite things on BBF is run a project series. I've had some decent ones and some bad ones. I'm willing to give this a try because I have no problem with people politely declining.

    Some players do not deserve HoF enshrinement. They just weren't good enough. At the same time, they played at a level deserving partial recognition, similar to the status of being a multiple all-star or entering a team's HoF.

    Who is a Gooder (someone belonging in the Hall of Very Good)? First, we will not induct nonplayers. Second, only players of a major league (this excludes the National Association) are eligible. We have a hard enough time dealing with Negro Leaguers as is, no need to get complicated. With these in mind, a Gooder is:

    1. a player who IS NOT currently in the Hall of Fame
    2. a player who is eligible for the Hall of Fame (ten seasons played and retired 2007 or before. Also can't be banned). This includes players who are on the ballot and are likely HoFers. We will adjust if they are elected.

    Each round is broken down according to last name. There are eight rounds: A-C, D-F, G-J, K-M, N-P, Q-R, S-U, W-Z. Voters will submit ballots of 20-35 players. Anyone they believe is worthy of the actual HoF must be noted. Should such players receive 75% of HoF support, they will be omitted. Players receiving at least 75% of votes to be a Gooder will be inducted to BBF Hall of Very Good. The minimum amount of inductees per round is 20, whereas the max is 25. Should we go over/under these boundaries, then the next possible players are selected, either those with the most support or those nearest to 75%. We also go down the line after omissions (if 22 are inducted but one is believed to be a HoFer, we go to the next guy). It isn't the end of the world if we go over/under. Based on these guidelines the HoVG should hold somewhere between 160-200 players.

    Please post any player (including any you believe are HoF worthy) who belongs in the HOVG with last names A-C. If a you believe a player is worthy of the HoF, please indicate so in an OBVIOUS manner. You can put 5 asterisks or the label (HoF) after their name. Whatever works.

    Below are players with last names A-C and a WAR within the top 1000 players. This is merely to jog your memory. It isn't definitive; you're more than welcome to nominate another player. Remember you ballot MUST have anywhere from 20-35 players (this includes your HoF choices). If you can, try to keep it alphabetical

    Code:
    Adams, Babe
    Adcock, Joe
    Agee, Tommy
    Aguilera, Rick
    Alexander, Doyle
    Allen, Dick
    Alou, Felipe
    Alou, Jesus
    Alou, Matty
    Appier, Kevin
    Avila, Bobby
    Bagby, Jim
    Bagwell, Jeff
    Baines, Harold
    Bando, Sal
    Barfield, Jesse
    Bartell, Dick
    Bauer, Hank
    Baylor, Don
    Belanger, Mark
    Bell, Buddy
    Bell, Jay
    Belle, Albert
    Bennett, Charlie
    Berger, Wally
    Biggio, Craig
    Blue, Lu
    Blue, Vida
    Bond, Tommy
    Bonds, Barry
    Bonds, Bobby
    Bonilla, Bobby
    Boone, Bob
    Boyer, Clete
    Boyer, Ken
    Brecheen, Harry
    Breitenstein, Ted
    Bridges, Tommy
    Brown, Kevin
    Browning, Pete
    Buffinton, Charlie
    Buford, Don
    Burdette, Lew
    Burgess, Smoky
    Burks, Ellis
    Burns, George H.
    Burns, George J.
    Bush, Bullet Joe
    Bush, Donie
    Butler, Brett
    Callison, Johnny
    Camilli, Dolph
    Caminiti, Ken
    Campaneris, Bert
    Candelaria, John
    Candiotti, Tom
    Canseco, Jose
    Caruthers, Bob
    Cash, Norm
    Cavarretta, Phil
    Cedeno, Cesar
    Cey, Ron
    Chance, Dean
    Chapman, Ben
    Childs, Cupid
    Cirillo, Jeff
    Clark, Jack
    Clark, Will
    Clemens, Roger
    Clift, Harlond
    Colavito, Rocky
    Concepcion, Dave
    Cone, David
    Coombs, Jack
    Cooper, Mort
    Cooper, Walker
    Cooper, Wilbur
    Crandall, Del
    Cravath, Gaavy
    Cross, Lave
    Cruz, Jose
    Cuellar, Mike
    Cuppy, Nig
    Last edited by Tyrus4189Cobb; 09-27-2012, 08:09 AM.
    "Allen Sutton Sothoron pitched his initials off today."--1920s article

  • #2
    My ballot:
    Babe Adams
    Dick Allen (HOF)**
    Felipe Alou
    Jeff Bagwell (HOF)**
    Harold Baines
    Sal Bando
    Buddy Bell
    Albert Belle
    Charlie Bennett
    Craig Biggio (HOF)**
    Vida Blue
    Tommy Bond
    Barry Bonds (HOF)**
    Bobby Bonds
    Ken Boyer
    Harry Brecheen
    Tommy Bridges
    Kevin Brown
    Ellis Burks
    Bert Campaneris
    Jose Canseco
    Bob Caruthers (HOF)**
    Norm Cash (HOF)**
    Cesar Cedeno
    Ron Cey
    Jack Clark
    Will Clark
    Roger Clemens (HOF)**
    Rocky Colavito
    Dave Concecpion
    David Cone
    Cravath, Gaavy
    Jose Cruz
    Last edited by Tyrus4189Cobb; 09-28-2012, 04:10 AM.
    "Allen Sutton Sothoron pitched his initials off today."--1920s article

    Comment


    • #3
      As an aid to voters, here are the WAR leaders in this group. Be aware that several of these are omitted from the player list in post #1:

      Code:
      Barry*Bonds*(22)	158.1
      Roger*Clemens*(24)	133.9
      Jeff*Bagwell*(15)	76.7
      Kevin*Brown*(19)	64.3
      Craig*Biggio*(20)	62.1
      Buddy*Bell*(18)	61.6
      Tommy*Bond*(10)	60.7
      David*Cone*(17)	58.8
      Ken*Boyer*(15)	58.7
      Bob*Caruthers*(10)	58.7
      Charlie*Buffinton*(11)	57.9
      Sal*Bando*(16)	57.1
      Bobby*Bonds*(14)	55.7
      Dick*Allen*(15)	55.6
      Will*Clark*(15)	53.2
      Wilbur*Cooper*(15)	51.8
      Kevin*Appier*(16)	51.5
      Jose*Cruz*(19)	51
      Babe*Adams*(19)	50.5
      Ron*Cey*(17)	50.4
      Jack*Clark*(18)	50.1
      Cesar*Cedeno*(17)	49.7
      Bert*Campaneris*(19)	49.1
      Ted*Breitenstein*(11)	48.2
      Norm*Cash*(17)	48.2
      Brett*Butler*(17)	47
      Tommy*Bridges*(16)	46.6
      Ellis*Burks*(18)	46.3
      Lave*Cross*(21)	42.8
      Rocky*Colavito*(14)	42
      Cupid*Childs*(13)	41.7
      Vida*Blue*(17)	41.6
      Dolph*Camilli*(12)	40.2
      Harry*Brecheen*(12)	40.1
      Wally*Berger*(11)	39.8
      John*Candelaria*(19)	39.4
      Felipe*Alou*(17)	39.2
      Jose*Canseco*(17)	39.1
      Ben*Chapman*(15)	38.7
      Nig*Cuppy*(10)	38.5
      Tom*Candiotti*(16)	38.3
      Pete*Browning*(13)	38
      George*Burns*(15)	37.8
      Mark*Belanger*(18)	37.6
      Dick*Bartell*(18)	37.3
      Jesse*Barfield*(12)	37.2
      Charlie*Bennett*(15)	37.2
      Albert*Belle*(12)	36.9
      Donie*Bush*(16)	36.7
      Dave*Concepcion*(19)	36.5
      Last edited by Freakshow; 09-25-2012, 07:21 AM.
      Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

      Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks, Freakshow (I feel funny calling you that). I only included more prominent names because it was, again, just to jog memories
        "Allen Sutton Sothoron pitched his initials off today."--1920s article

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Tyrus4189Cobb View Post
          Thanks, Freakshow (I feel funny calling you that). I only included more prominent names because it was, again, just to jog memories
          Call me Dan (it's in my profile).

          And I think Kevin Brown is a very prominent name.

          Also, you should be aware that ten years played has never been a requirement for a HOF player. Yes, it is normally the minimum required to appear on the ballot, but the rule is set aside when necessary.
          Last edited by Freakshow; 09-25-2012, 10:52 AM.
          Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

          Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

          Comment


          • #6
            He slipped my mind.

            Anyone care to vote?
            "Allen Sutton Sothoron pitched his initials off today."--1920s article

            Comment


            • #7
              I am very confused.

              I know we are voting for "Gooders".
              But then we should also vote for players we think are better than "Gooders" but not in the real Hall yet (Biggio, Bagwell, Clemens, Dick Allen, etc.)??? And do guys like Biggio count towards our 20-35 listed? Or are they extra votes?
              And guys like Clemens and Bonds are not eligible for the real Hall because they are not quite 5 years retired, so does that mean we can vote for recently retired and active players?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by dgarza View Post
                I am very confused.

                I know we are voting for "Gooders".
                But then we should also vote for players we think are better than "Gooders" but not in the real Hall yet (Biggio, Bagwell, Clemens, Dick Allen, etc.)??? And do guys like Biggio count towards our 20-35 listed? Or are they extra votes?
                And guys like Clemens and Bonds are not eligible for the real Hall because they are not quite 5 years retired, so does that mean we can vote for recently retired and active players?
                I also need some more clarity on this. I've read through both threads and am still not sure what we'd be doing.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think this is what we're doing????

                  Rick Aguilera
                  Dick Allen ***HOF***
                  Jeff Bagwell ***HOF***
                  Ross Barnes ***HOF*** ELIGIBLE HERE?????
                  Albert Belle ***HOF***
                  Wally Berger
                  Craig Biggio ***HOF***
                  Vida Blue
                  Tommy Bond ***HOF***
                  Barry Bonds ***HOF***
                  Bobby Bonds ***HOF***
                  Bobby Bonilla ***HOF***
                  Ken Boyer ***HOF***
                  Tommy Bridges
                  Kevin Brown ***HOF***
                  Pete Browning ***HOF***
                  Charlie Buffington ***HOF***
                  George Burns (LF)
                  Brett Butler
                  Dolph Camilli
                  Bert Campaneris
                  Jose Canseco
                  Bob Caruthers ***HOF***
                  Norm Cash
                  Ron Cey
                  Cupid Childs
                  Ed Cicotte ***HOF*** ELIGIBLE HERE?????
                  Will Clark ***HOF***
                  Roger Clemens ***HOF***
                  Rocky Colavito ***HOF***
                  Dave Concepcion
                  David Cone
                  Wilbur Cooper
                  Gavvy Cravath
                  Lave Cross


                  Let me know about Barnes and Cicotte. I could replace either/both with Jack Clark and/or Buddy Bell.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by dgarza View Post
                    I am very confused.

                    I know we are voting for "Gooders".
                    But then we should also vote for players we think are better than "Gooders" but not in the real Hall yet (Biggio, Bagwell, Clemens, Dick Allen, etc.)??? And do guys like Biggio count towards our 20-35 listed? Or are they extra votes?
                    And guys like Clemens and Bonds are not eligible for the real Hall because they are not quite 5 years retired, so does that mean we can vote for recently retired and active players?
                    We compiling a hall of players believed to be good but not good enough for the real Hall.

                    1. Naturally, if you believe Roger Clemens belongs in the Hall of Fame, he would belong in the Hall of Very Good. However, such players are to be noted. If 75% or more of voters believe Clemens is a HoFer, he will be omitted from the HOVG. Otherwise the final product will just look like guys who belong in the Hall but aren't. I'm looking for players who didn't quite play at Hall level but deserve some recognition (think Jack Morris).

                    2. If you believe Clemens is a HoFer, he still counts towards the 20-35 in the ballot.

                    3. Guys must be eligible for the Hall. The 2012 season is nearing the end, so anyone who retired in 2007 or before is eligible.

                    4. If 20 players are elected (received at least 75%) but we all agree Clemens is a HoFer, he is omitted. Now there's 19. For the 20th guy, I would go to next player with the most votes (maybe someone with 71%). If Clemens received 100% of the vote but only 40% of believed he is a worthy HoFer, he is not omitted and will be elected to the HOVG.

                    I hope this clarifies.
                    Last edited by Tyrus4189Cobb; 09-25-2012, 01:32 PM.
                    "Allen Sutton Sothoron pitched his initials off today."--1920s article

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by dgarza View Post
                      I think this is what we're doing????

                      Let me know about Barnes and Cicotte. I could replace either/both with Jack Clark and/or Buddy Bell.
                      You got it right. As you said, Barnes and Cicotte are an issue. Barnes didn't spend 10 seasons in a "Major League" and Cicotte is banned. I will mark you down for J Clark and B Bell in their place.

                      And thanks for keeping it alphabetical.
                      Last edited by Tyrus4189Cobb; 09-25-2012, 01:32 PM.
                      "Allen Sutton Sothoron pitched his initials off today."--1920s article

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        here's my HOVG



                        1. Adams, Babe
                        2. Allen, Dick
                        3. Bagwell, Jeff*
                        4. Baines, Harold
                        5. Bartell, Dick
                        6. Bell, Buddy
                        Belle. Albert*
                        7. Biggio, Craig*
                        8. Blue, Vida
                        9. Bonds, Barry*
                        10. Bonds, Bobby
                        11. Boyer, Ken
                        12. Brown, Kevin
                        14. Canseco, Jose
                        17. Cash, Norm
                        18. Cedeno, Cesar
                        19. Chance, Dean
                        20. Chapman, Ben
                        21. Clark, Jack
                        22. Clark, Will
                        23. Clemens, Roger*
                        24. Clift, Harlond
                        25. Colavito, Rocky
                        26. Concepcion, Dave
                        27. Cone, David
                        28. Cooper, Mort
                        29. Cravath, Gaavy
                        30. Cruz, Jose
                        31. Cuellar, Mike


                        I don't know why there are numbers with this post. Just ignore them.
                        Last edited by JR Hart; 09-25-2012, 03:12 PM.
                        This week's Giant

                        #5 in games played as a Giant with 1721 , Bill Terry

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          No Ron Cey, JR?
                          "Allen Sutton Sothoron pitched his initials off today."--1920s article

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Tyrus4189Cobb View Post
                            No Ron Cey, JR?
                            Oh The Penguin was OK. Maybe the hall of pretty good.
                            This week's Giant

                            #5 in games played as a Giant with 1721 , Bill Terry

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I'm going to err on the side of a large Cooperstown if I have the rules right on this project:

                              Code:
                              Adams, Babe
                              Allen, Dick*
                              Bagwell, Jeff*
                              Baines, Harold
                              Bando, Sal*
                              Bell, Buddy*
                              Belle, Albert
                              Bennett, Charlie*
                              Berger, Wally*
                              Biggio, Craig*
                              Blue, Vida
                              Bonds, Barry*
                              Bonds, Bobby*
                              Boyer, Ken*
                              Bridges, Tommy*
                              Brown, Kevin*
                              Browning, Pete*
                              Buffinton, Charlie
                              Burgess, Smoky
                              Burks, Ellis
                              Campaneris, Bert
                              Caruthers, Bob*
                              Cash, Norm*
                              Cedeno, Cesar*
                              Cey, Ron*
                              Childs, Cupid*
                              Clark, Jack*
                              Clark, Will*
                              Clemens, Roger*
                              Colavito, Rocky
                              Concepcion, Dave
                              Cone, David*
                              Cooper, Wilbur
                              Cravath, Gaavy*
                              Lave Cross
                              * = HoF vote
                              Last edited by J W; 09-27-2012, 02:36 PM.
                              http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploa...-showalter.gif

                              Comment

                              Ad Widget

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X