How Many Players Is Too Many

[DaKid12]

Players from one era. I was going over players who I feel are Hall of Fame players from the steroid era. I took out the following players who played a good portion of their careers in the 80s or are still in their prime:

Tony Gwynn, Cal Ripken, Rickey Henderson, Tim Raines, Roy Halladay, and Albert Pujols.

That leaves me with the following players:

Catcher (2):Mike Piazza, Ivan Rodriguez
First Base (5): Jeff Bagwell, Mark McGwire, Rafael Palmeiro, Jim Thome, Todd Helton
Second Base (3): Roberto Alomar, Jeff Kent, Craig Biggio
Shortstop (3): Barry Larkin, Derek Jeter, Omar Vizquel
Third Base (2): Alex Rodroguez, Chipper Jones
Left Field (2): Barry Bonds, Manny Ramirez
Center Field (1): Ken Griffey Jr.
Right Field (5): Ichiro, Vladimir Guerrero, Sammy Sosa, Gary Sheffield, Larry Walker
Designated Hitter (2): Edgar Martinez, Frank Thomas

Starting Pitcher (8): Roger Clemens, Greg Maddux, Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, John Smoltz, Tom Glavine, Curt Schilling, Mike Mussina
Closer (2): Mariano Rivera, Trevor Hoffman

That is 35 players whose primes were in the steroid era. How does that amount compare to other eras? Is 35 way to lenient? Are 5 right fielders from one era too much? How about 10 pitchers? Would love to hear from those more educated than me. This list also doesn't include players like Andruw Jones, Red McGriff, Carlos Delgado, Carlos Beltran, Jorge Posada, Jim Edmonds, and Scott Rolen. All payers I've seen get a good amount of support. Is there any cleary omissions from this list or anyone who absolutely doesn't deserve to be in? The main purpose of this post is too see if 35 players from one era is too many. Thanks

[GiambiJuice]

Players from one era. I was going over players who I feel are Hall of Fame players from the steroid era. I took out the following players who played a good portion of their careers in the 80s or are still in their prime:

Tony Gwynn, Cal Ripken, Rickey Henderson, Tim Raines, Roy Halladay, and Albert Pujols.

That leaves me with the following players:

Catcher (2):Mike Piazza, Ivan Rodriguez
First Base (5): Jeff Bagwell, Mark McGwire, Rafael Palmeiro, Jim Thome, Todd Helton
Second Base (3): Roberto Alomar, Jeff Kent, Craig Biggio
Shortstop (3): Barry Larkin, Derek Jeter, Omar Vizquel
Third Base (2): Alex Rodroguez, Chipper Jones
Left Field (2): Barry Bonds, Manny Ramirez
Center Field (1): Ken Griffey Jr.
Right Field (5): Ichiro, Vladimir Guerrero, Sammy Sosa, Gary Sheffield, Larry Walker
Designated Hitter (2): Edgar Martinez, Frank Thomas

Starting Pitcher (8): Roger Clemens, Greg Maddux, Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, John Smoltz, Tom Glavine, Curt Schilling, Mike Mussina
Closer (2): Mariano Rivera, Trevor Hoffman

That is 35 players whose primes were in the steroid era. How does that amount compare to other eras? Is 35 way to lenient? Are 5 right fielders from one era too much? How about 10 pitchers? Would love to hear from those more educated than me. This list also doesn't include players like Andruw Jones, Red McGriff, Carlos Delgado, Carlos Beltran, Jorge Posada, Jim Edmonds, and Scott Rolen. All payers I've seen get a good amount of support. Is there any cleary omissions from this list or anyone who absolutely doesn't deserve to be in? The main purpose of this post is too see if 35 players from one era is too many. Thanks

Well, if we're saying that the "Steroid Era" is approximately a 15 year window, then I would imagine there are other 15 year windows in ML history with more than 35 HOFers. Not to mention, a few of the guys you listed are not going to make it (especially McGwire and Palmeiro).

[DaKid12]

You could also take Ichiro off that list since most his year were after steroid years. So that's 34

[jjpm74]

7-10 of those players will either wait decades or never get in, so that leaves you with 24. 24 is not that out of line when taking into consideration that we're really talking about 30 years of play with some overlap in the middle

Bolded are the ones that will get in pretty quickly (within 5-10 years of entering the ballot):

Catcher (2):Mike Piazza, Ivan Rodriguez
First Base (5): Jeff Bagwell, Mark McGwire, Rafael Palmeiro, Jim Thome, Todd Helton
Second Base (3): Roberto Alomar, Jeff Kent, Craig Biggio
Shortstop (3): Barry Larkin, Derek Jeter, Omar Vizquel
Third Base (2): Alex Rodriguez, Chipper Jones
Left Field (2): Barry Bonds, Manny Ramirez
Center Field (1): Ken Griffey Jr.
Right Field (4): Vladimir Guerrero, Sammy Sosa, Gary Sheffield, Larry Walker
Designated Hitter (2): Edgar Martinez, Frank Thomas

Starting Pitcher (8): Roger Clemens, Greg Maddux, Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, John Smoltz, Tom Glavine, Curt Schilling, Mike Mussina
Closer (2): Mariano Rivera, Trevor Hoffman

I do think that Clemens and Bonds will eventually get in, but they will have to wait a long time. Alex Rodriguez's chances depend largely on how people perceive him at the end of his career. Todd Helton is one of those players who will get in someday, but it will be via some kind of VC. He may become the new Ron Santo. Manny Ramirez and Mark McGwire might eventually get in. Sammy Sosa doesn't have a chance. Rafael Palmiero is another one who may get in someday, but it will be after he passes away. Edgar Martinez is definitely deserving, but perceptions about the role of a DH need to change to get him in. It bothers me that so many people seem to support Omar Vizquel. He is way short of what I like to see in a HOF short stop and I'm a big hall guy. Why Vizquel while Trammel struggles to stay on the ballot? Larry Walker was a very good player, but Coors Field hurts his case. Gary 'In it for Gary" Sheffield, the journeyman slugger will hopefully not get serious HOF attention. McGriff, someone I am not a fan of, is more deserving. Trevor Hoffman might get in eventually, but he was more of a compiler than anything. He's not on the same level as Rich Gossage or Mariano Rivera who dominated their eras.

One omission who will get a good deal of support is Andy Pettitte.

[DaKid12]

I agree that there are probably 9 players who won't get in or wil have a long wait. McGwire, Palmeiro, Sosa, Manny, Sheffield, Walker, Edgar, Vizquel, and Helton. But if u take out steroids, 5 of those players are locks for the Hall. That leaves us with 30 players from one era who are Hall of Famers. What I'm getting is that 34 players would be reasonable.

[DaKid12]

7-10 of those players will either wait decades or never get in, so that leaves you with 24. 24 is not that out of line when taking into consideration that we're really talking about 30 years of play with some overlap in the middle

Bolded are the ones that will get in pretty quickly (within 5-10 years of entering the ballot):

Catcher (2):Mike Piazza, Ivan Rodriguez
First Base (5): Jeff Bagwell, Mark McGwire, Rafael Palmeiro, Jim Thome, Todd Helton
Second Base (3): Roberto Alomar, Jeff Kent, Craig Biggio
Shortstop (3): Barry Larkin, Derek Jeter, Omar Vizquel
Third Base (2): Alex Rodriguez, Chipper Jones
Left Field (2): Barry Bonds, Manny Ramirez
Center Field (1): Ken Griffey Jr.
Right Field (4): Vladimir Guerrero, Sammy Sosa, Gary Sheffield, Larry Walker
Designated Hitter (2): Edgar Martinez, Frank Thomas

Starting Pitcher (8): Roger Clemens, Greg Maddux, Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, John Smoltz, Tom Glavine, Curt Schilling, Mike Mussina
Closer (2): Mariano Rivera, Trevor Hoffman

I do think that Clemens and Bonds will eventually get in, but they will have to wait a long time. Alex Rodriguez's chances depend largely on how people perceive him at the end of his career. Todd Helton is one of those players who will get in someday, but it will be via some kind of VC. He may become the new Ron Santo. Manny Ramirez and Mark McGwire might eventually get in. Sammy Sosa doesn't have a chance. Rafael Palmiero is another one who may get in someday, but it will be after he passes away. Edgar Martinez is definitely deserving, but perceptions about the role of a DH need to change to get him in. It bothers me that so many people seem to support Omar Vizquel. He is way short of what I like to see in a HOF short stop and I'm a big hall guy. Why Vizquel while Trammel struggles to stay on the ballot? Larry Walker was a very good player, but Coors Field hurts his case. Gary 'In it for Gary" Sheffield, the journeyman slugger will hopefully not get serious HOF attention. McGriff, someone I am not a fan of, is more deserving. Trevor Hoffman might get in eventually, but he was more of a compiler than anything. He's not in the same area of Rich Gossage or Mariano Rivera who dominated their eras.

One omission who will get a good deal of support is Andy Pettitte.

I agree with everything u said except Hoffman. I think he 100 percent gets in before 10 years.

[Bothrops Atrox]

35 guys from the past 20-25 years seems okay. Compare to the 20's-50's. There were more than that despite less than half of the teams. Heck, in the 1900's, there were years in which almost 20% of all regular starting pitchers are in the HOF or are supported by many people.

Look at some of the boxscores from pre-integration World Series games. Some of them had almost half of the regulars and pitchers now in the HOF.

[jalbright]

If we look at electing 2 players a year, that's a good benchmark.

[dgarza]

There's approx 35 HOFers who played significant amounts of time from 1950-1964.
Considering there are more teams today and considering there are more "roles" today (DH and closer), 35 players from this recent 15-year window is easily within the range, and may be conservative.

[DaKid12]

There's approx 35 HOFers who played significant amounts of time from 1950-1964.
Considering there are more teams today and considering there are more "roles" today (DH and closer), 35 players from this recent 15-year window is easily within the range, and may be conservative.

That was what I was looking for. So that 35 is Definitley within reason. When you say conservative, who else would you add?

[dgarza]

That was what I was looking for. So that 35 is Definitley within reason. When you say conservative, who else would you add?

If we have 35 HOFers in a 16 team environment, 35 HOFers in a 30 team environment is conservative.

Who would I add? Bernie Williams, Albert Belle, Billy Wagner, Giambi*. Maybe Garciaparra or Will Clark. Kevin Brown?

[GiambiJuice]

If we have 35 HOFers in a 16 team environment, 35 HOFers in a 30 team environment is conservative.

Who would I add? Bernie Williams, Albert Belle, Billy Wagner, Giambi*. Maybe Garciaparra or Will Clark. Kevin Brown?

IMO, Kenny Lofton has a better case than all of the above. He seems to be tremendously underrated for some reason.

[jalbright]

If we have 35 HOFers in a 16 team environment, 35 HOFers in a 30 team environment is conservative.

While it may be tougher to identify the best 35 in the 30 team environment than in the 16 team one, I'm not at all convinced that increasing the number of players does much to increase the number of great players, which is what the Hall of Fame should be about. Perhaps we can add a few because the net is wider (including Japanese players, for instance), but I think the number inducted should remain about the same.

[jjpm74]

While it may be tougher to identify the best 35 in the 30 team environment than in the 16 team one, I'm not at all convinced that increasing the number of players does much to increase the number of great players, which is what the Hall of Fame should be about. Perhaps we can add a few because the net is wider (including Japanese players, for instance), but I think the number inducted should remain about the same.

While I agree with this sentiment for the most part, having more teams also means more players get a chance that might not have before. As a case in point, Mike Trout came out of nowhere this year. While the guy is young, no one has ever had the kind of year he had as a position player without eventually making it to the HOF unless they were banned from the game. Maybe Trout doesn't make it to MLB with 16 teams.

[willshad]

IMO, Kenny Lofton has a better case than all of the above. He seems to be tremendously underrated for some reason.

To me, Lofton had only one great season..and that was the strike shortened season of 1994. Besides that one year he was pretty much Carl Crawford offensively. A guy like that needs 3000 hits to be considered a HOFer.