Do any of these guys have Hall of Fame arguments? Part IV

[Cowtipper]

In order to shave some names off my list of possible Hall of Fame threads, I decided to up my minimum WAR requirement to 20. It used to be 10.

Contrary to popular belief, not just anybody makes my exclusive and illustrious list of potential Hall of Fame poll subjects. The following 10 players, because they have less than 20 career WAR, will not have polls made for them. So, I thought I'd make one super-thread, where you can discuss the Hall of Fame worthiness or lack thereof of these players.

I've included various bits of information, including notable achievements, black ink/grey ink, similar players, statistics, Hall of Fame performance and various Baseball Fever project performances for each.

Rick Aguilera - 19.1 WAR

Playing career: 1985-2000
Position: Relief pitcher
Notable statistics: 318 SV, 3.57 ERA in 732 games, 86-81 W-L, 8.6 K/9 IP
League leader: Pitcher fielding percentage, 1986
Black ink/grey ink: 0/27
Similar players: Doug Jones, Bob Wickman, Dave Righetti, Jeff Reardon, Roberto Hernandez, Roy Face, Steve Bedrosian, Bruce Sutter, Jason Isringhausen, Bill Campbell
Notable playoff performances: 0.00 ERA in 1986 NLCS; 1.29 ERA in 7 IP in 1988 NLCS; 5 SV in 1991 playoffs (1 ER in 8.1 IP); 2-1, 2.63 ERA in 15 career appearances
Awards: Three All-Star selections
Hall of Fame voting performance: 0.6% of the vote in 2006
Other stuff: Won two World Series with the New York Mets (1986) and the Minnesota Twins (1991)
Fan EloRater rank: 431

Babe Dahlgren - 2.7 WAR

Playing career: 1935-1946
Position: First baseman
Notable statistics: .261 BA, 1056 H, 569 RBI
League leader: Games played twice, defensive putouts once, 1B fielding percentage once
Black ink/grey ink: 2/22
Similar players: Wes Parker, Carlos May, Dan Meyer, Travis Lee, Pat Tabler, Glenn Wilson, Jerry Morales, Bobby Tolan, Sam Mele, Danny Cater
Awards: One All-Star selection
Hall of Fame voting performance: 1 vote in Progessive Hall of Fame project
Other stuff: Won two World Series with the New York Yankees (1938 & 1939)
Fan EloRater rank: 1544

Keith Foulke - 19.8 WAR

Playing career: 1997-2006, 2008
Position: Relief pitcher
Notable statistics: 191 SV, 3.33 ERA in 619 games, 140 ERA+, 41-37 W-L
League leader: Games finished twice, saves once
Black ink/grey ink: 3/15
Similar players: Gregg Olson, Jeff Brantley, Jeff Shaw, Rod Beck, Ugueth Urbina, Jay Howell, Mike Henneman, Dave Veres, Eric Gagne, Bobby Thigpen
Notable playoff performances: 0.00 ERA in 2004 ALDS; 0.00 ERA in 5 games in 2004 ALCS; 1-0, 1.80 ERA in 2004 WS; 2.35 ERA, 3 SV in 16 career games
Awards: One All-Star selection, 2003 AL Rolaids Relief Award, 2004 AL Babe Ruth Award, 2004 Reliever of the Year
Other stuff: Won a World Series with the Boston Red Sox in 2004
Fan EloRater rank: 438

Bill Hallman - 4.6 WAR

Playing career: 1888-1898, 1901-1903
Position: Second baseman
Notable statistics: .272 BA, 1,641 H, 201 SB
League leader: Sacrifice hits once, games once, 2B F% once
Black ink/grey ink: 1/20
Similar players: Lou Bierbauer, Claude Ritchey, Billy Shindle, Hughie Critz, Johnny Evers, Joe Quinn, George Cutshaw, Harry Steinfeldt, Tom Herr, Dave Cash. Most similar to Bucky Harris through age 30.
Fan EloRater rank: 1413

Lefty Leifield - 19.4 WAR

Playing career: 1905-1913, 1918-1920
Position: Starting pitcher
Notable statistics: 124-97 W-L, 2.47 ERA, 115 ERA+
Black ink/grey ink: 0/55
Similar players: Noodles Hahn, Dummy Taylor, Harry Brecheen, Ed Killian, Dick Rudolph, Fred Toney, Howie Camnitz, Bob Ewing, Larry Cheney, Mort Cooper. Most similar to Addie Joss through age 25.
Other stuff: Won a World Series with the Pittsburgh Pirates in 1909
Fan EloRater rank: 337

Omar Moreno - 7.9 WAR

Playing career: 1975-1986
Position: Centerfielder
Notable statistics: .252 BA, 1,257 H, 487 SB, 699 R
League leader: At-bats twice, plate appearances twice, triples once, stolen bases twice, CF putouts twice, CF assists once, CF games three times,
Black ink/grey ink: 7/40
Similar players: Bob Bescher, Jack Graney, Rick Manning, Vince Coleman, Ned Hanlon, Dave Collins, Joe Hornung, Darren Lewis, Charlie Hemphill, Rube Oldring
Notable playoff performance: .333 BA, 11 hits in 1979 WS
Other stuff: Won a World Series with the Pittsburgh Pirates in 1979
Fan EloRater: 1165

Jake Powell - (-)2.3 WAR

Playing career: 1930, 1934-1940, 1943-1945
Position: Outfielder
Notable statistics: .271 BA, 689 H, 22 HR
Black ink/grey ink: 0/4
Similar players: Johnny Rucker, Larry Twitcher, Endy Chavez, Mike McCormick, Earl McNeely, Rudy Law, Bert Haas, Quinton McCracken, Mel Almada, Jimmy Wasden
Notable playoff performances: .455 BA, 1 HR, 5 RBI, 10 H in 1936 WS
Hall of Fame voting performance: 1 vote in Progessive Hall of Fame project
Other stuff: Won four World Series with the New York Yankees (1936, 1937, 1938 & 1939)

Johnny Roseboro - 19.6 WAR

Playing career: 1957-1970
Position: Catcher
Notable statistics: .249 BA, 1,206 H, 104 HR
League leader: Games at C once, C putouts four times, caught stealing twice
Black ink/grey ink: 0/2
Similar players: Johnny Edwards, Jim Hegan, Frankie Hayes, Alan Ashby, Rick Dempsey, Bob O'Farrell, Butch Wynegar, Terry Kennedy, Mike Scioscia, Dan Wilson
Notable playoff performances: .286 BA, three RBI in 1965 WS
Awards: Six All-Star selections, two Gold Gloves
Other stuff: Won three World Series with the Los Angeles Dodgers (1959, 1963 & 1965)
Fan EloRater rank: 666

Norm Siebern - 19.0 WAR

Playing career: 1956, 1958-1968
Position: First baseman/outfielder
Notable statistics: .272 BA, 1,217 H, 132 HR, 636 RBI, 662 R, 117 OPS+
League leader: Games once, TOB once, 1B putouts once, LF F% once
Black ink/grey ink: 3/47
Similar players: Gary Ward, Jim Northrup, Bob Skinner, Hector Lopez, Steve Kemp, Willard Marshall, Matt Lawton, Tito Francona, Mel Hall, Sixto Lezcano
Notable playoff performances: .333 BA in 1967 WS
Awards: Four All-Star selections, one Gold Glove
Other stuff: Won two World Series with the New York Yankees (1956 & 1958)
Fan EloRater rank: 784

Paul Splittorff - 19.5 WAR

Playing career: 1970-1984
Position: Starting pitcher
Notable statistics: 166-143 W-L, 3.81 ERA, 88 CG
League leader: Fielding percentage, three times
Black ink/grey ink: 0/26
Similar players: Bob Forsch, Mike Flanagan, Jim Lonborg, Bill Gullickson, Scott Sanderson, Frank Killen, Vern Law, Doug Drabek, Frank Viola, Bill Sherdel
Notable playoff performances: 1-0, 1.93 ERA in 1976 ALCS; 1-0, 2.40 ERA in 1977 ALCS; 1.69 ERA in 1980 ALCS
Hall of Fame voting performance: On 1990 ballot, received no votes.
Fan EloRater rank: 339

[Cougar]

WAR didn't enter into my judgement, but looking after the fact, two things:

1. The fact that all of them are below 20 pretty much cements their non-HOF status.

2. The players in the 19's are the most impressive players on the list.

[chicagowhitesox1173]

I was kinda surprised Keith Foulke got a 19 war. There's no way any of em are hofers though.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Why isn't OPS+ mentioned? I thought every single poster here uses OPS+ in every post, every thread, every forum.

[PVNICK]

Why isn't OPS+ mentioned? I thought every single poster here uses OPS+ in every post, every thread, every forum.

Not true that's only for the hitters. It's ERA+ for pitchers.

As for the players the best description would be that some had 1-3 seasons that, at least by back of the baseball card standards, could fit in to a HOF players prime.

[jjpm74]

Not true that's only for the hitters. It's ERA+ for pitchers.

As for the players the best description would be that some had 1-3 seasons that, at least by back of the baseball card standards, could fit in to a HOF players prime.

If by some you mean maybe 2 or 3 and if by could fit, you mean in an off year for a HOFer.

No one on this list is close. Johnny Roseboro might qualify as top 50 at his position not in the HOF and is the best of the lot.

[jjpm74]

Jake Powell is not in the top 2000 (fan elo rating) of all time. He has a -2.3 career WAR and a -10.2 WAA. He only cracked 1.0 in offensive oWAR once in his career and had a whopping 81 OPS+ as an outfielder.

He is also notorious for being the first player to be suspended for making a racial slur on public radio:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/27/sp...well.html?_r=0

Why even ask about him? There are at least 2000 players more worth the time than him.

[SamtheBravesFan]

Cowtipper, I am genuinely curious as to why you included Powell. There are a thousand reasons not to; what is the one?

[GiambiJuice]

No.

..........

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Why isn't OPS+ mentioned? I thought every single poster here uses OPS+ in every post, every thread, every forum.

Come on CCN. OPS+ is so 2007. It's all about WAR these day, baby!

[Cowtipper]

Cowtipper, I am genuinely curious as to why you included Powell. There are a thousand reasons not to; what is the one?

I have statistical limits and various criteria as to which players I consider. Somehow, he met one of those criteria, though I have no idea which one it was or how.

[Bothrops Atrox]

Why isn't OPS+ mentioned? I thought every single poster here uses OPS+ in every post, every thread, every forum.

Come on dude...let speeping dogs lie!

[Cougar]

I have statistical limits and various criteria as to which players I consider. Somehow, he met one of those criteria, though I have no idea which one it was or how.

I'll hazard a guess -- his playing on four WS winners.

Imagine Luis Sojo, but racist.

[jjpm74]

I'll hazard a guess -- his playing on four WS winners.

Imagine Luis Sojo, but racist.

Sojo was a better player.

[Jackaroo Dave]

Not true that's only for the hitters. It's ERA+ for pitchers.

Except Don Drysdale.