Here's 20 more , please rate them

[JR Hart]

I've enjoyed reading and ranking the reults of my 1st 3 threads of this nature. Those results were just posted on another thread. Here are 20 new players to rate for HOF consideration. The rating scale continues as such.

5-Why is he not in? (if he was eligible)
4- Has a good case
3- marginal, has some merit
2-comes up short
1-are you kidding me?

Here are the 20, I especially enjoy reading the comments along with the rating thanks.


Dwight Gooden
Ted Simmons
Frank White
Buddy Bell
Johnny Damon
Darrrell Evans
Bernie Williams
Todd Helton
Ivan Rodriquez
Carlos Delgado
Keith Hernandez
Lon Warneke
Dave Stewart
Sam McDowell
Manny Ramirez
Jack Clark
Maury Wills
Dennis Martinez
Graig Nettles
Jake Daubert

[TomBodet]

I've enjoyed reading and ranking the reults of my 1st 3 threads of this nature. Those results were just posted on another thread. Here are 20 new players to rate for HOF consideration. The rating scale continues as such.

5-Why is he not in? (if he was eligible)
4- Has a good case
3- marginal, has some merit
2-comes up short
1-are you kidding me?

Here are the 20, I especially enjoy reading the comments along with the rating thanks.


Dwight Gooden 3
Ted Simmons 4
Frank White 2
Buddy Bell 3
Johnny Damon 2
Darrrell Evans 3
Bernie Williams 3
Todd Helton 3
Ivan Rodriquez 3
Carlos Delgado 4
Keith Hernandez 2
Lon Warneke 3
Dave Stewart 2
Sam McDowell 2
Manny Ramirez 4
Jack Clark 2
Maury Wills 2
Dennis Martinez 3
Graig Nettles 3
Jake Daubert 2

You can see my replies above.

[NJRob65]

Dwight Gooden-3
Ted Simmons- 4
Frank White- 2
Buddy Bell- 3
Johnny Damon- 3
Darell Evans- 3
Bernie Williams- 3
Todd Helton- 3
Ivan Rodriguez- 5
Carlos Delgado- 3
Keith Hernandez- 3
Lon Warneke- 3
Dave Stewart- 2
Sam McDowell- 2
Manny Ramirez- 5
Jack Clark- 3
Maury Wills- 2
Dennis Martinez- 3
Graig Nettles- 3
Jake Daubert- 2

[Bothrops Atrox]

Dwight Gooden -2
Ted Simmons - 4
Frank White - 2
Buddy Bell - 3
Johnny Damon - 2
Darrrell Evans - 3
Bernie Williams - 3
Todd Helton - 4
Ivan Rodriquez - 5
Carlos Delgado - 2
Keith Hernandez - 3
Lon Warneke - 2
Dave Stewart - 1
Sam McDowell - 1
Manny Ramirez - 5
Jack Clark - 2
Maury Wills - 2
Dennis Martinez - 1
Graig Nettles - 4
Jake Daubert -2

[EnterSandman]

Dwight Gooden - 2
Ted Simmons - 3
Frank White - 2
Buddy Bell - 2
Johnny Damon - 3
Darrrell Evans - 2
Bernie Williams - 2
Todd Helton - 3
Ivan Rodriquez - 4
Carlos Delgado - 3
Keith Hernandez - 2
Lon Warneke - 1
Dave Stewart - 1
Sam McDowell - 1
Manny Ramirez - 5
Jack Clark - 2
Maury Wills - 2
Dennis Martinez - 1
Graig Nettles - 3
Jake Daubert - 2

[toomanyhatz]

Dwight Gooden -3 - Peak years of a HoFer for sure. Shame about the drugs.
Ted Simmons - 4 - Best eligible catcher not in.
Frank White - 1 - He'd have to be an even greater fielder than he was to make up for the sub-.300 career OBP.
Buddy Bell - 2 - Underrated in the same ways as Darrel Evans, only a bit worse and for less time.
Johnny Damon - 3 - If not for the rapid defensive decline, he'd have a much better shot. Still, will probably just miss 3,000 hits, and one of the best power/speed combos of his era
Darrell Evans - 4 - Unfair that the low BA hurts him more than the 400 + HRs helps. A great player who, as James says, compares favorably with Perez, who's in.
Bernie Williams - 4 - Hate to say it 'cause he was a Yankee, but a great player and an important cog in some classic teams. And if DiMaggio's not punished for the short career, why should he be?
Todd Helton - 3 - Ballpark factor will hurt him- as it should, I suppose- but like Larry Walker there was more to him than home splits.
Ivan Rodriquez - 4 - Would the long-rumored position change have hurt or helped? We'll never know, but he's not that far behind Bench as things stand now.
Carlos Delgado - 3 - Remember when 400 HR meant something?
Keith Hernandez - 4 - On a level with Gil Hodges, who should also be in.
Lon Warneke - 3 - Very underrated. Great peak and it lasted ten years. Still, probably not quite enough. There are worse pitchers already in, of course.
Dave Stewart - 1 - 4-year peak and a 100 career ERA+. He has a better chance getting in as an agent.
Sam McDowell - 2 - Is it my imagination, or are his peak years as good as Nolan Ryan's? Still, not enough of them. One of the greatest ever from '68-'70.
Manny Ramirez - 3 - Very tough call. A great player with or without the help, and I'm not one for disqualifying based on rumors, but he was actually caught.
Jack Clark - 3 - Slightly below Hernandez/Hodges level. Borderline.
Maury Wills - 4 - Not the kind of OBP you want to see from a leadoff guy, and late start hurts, but still- changed the game in a way that few did, which has to be worth something.
Dennis Martinez - 2 - If his 3 or 4 terrible years were even average ones for him, he'd have a case.
Graig Nettles - 3 - Compares favorably with Evans so I guess he's got a case- worse hitter, better fielder. Hitting's worth more, or they'd be ranked equally.
Jake Daubert - 1 - A good 1B in an era of great ones.

[dgarza]

Dwight Gooden - 1
Ted Simmons - 4
Frank White - 1
Buddy Bell - 1
Johnny Damon - 1
Darrrell Evans - 3
Bernie Williams - 3
Todd Helton - 5
Ivan Rodriquez - 5
Carlos Delgado - 3
Keith Hernandez - 3
Lon Warneke - 2
Dave Stewart - 1
Sam McDowell - 1
Manny Ramirez - 5
Jack Clark - 1
Maury Wills - 1
Dennis Martinez - 1
Graig Nettles - 2
Jake Daubert - 1

[toomanyhatz]

I'm pretty shocked to be the only one rating Manny below a 5. Considering how much suspicion has hurt the already-eligible (VERY unfairly so in the case of Bagwell, which is nothing but guilt-by-association), how should we handle the cases of those who have actually been caught multiple times? Does McGwire rate a 5? Bonds? A-Rod? I get the whole "if we start eliminating people for moral reasons we have to take Hornsby, Anson, Cobb, etc. out" thing, but I think you have to either consider it or not consider it, and I'm not sure I buy that everyone here finds it totally irrelevant.

[Sockeye]

Dwight Gooden 1
Ted Simmons 2
Frank White 1
Buddy Bell 1
Johnny Damon 2
Darrrell Evans 5
Bernie Williams 3
Todd Helton 2
Ivan Rodriquez 4
Carlos Delgado 5
Keith Hernandez 3
Lon Warneke 2
Dave Stewart 1
Sam McDowell 2
Manny Ramirez 5
Jack Clark 3
Maury Wills 2
Dennis Martinez 2
Graig Nettles 3
Jake Daubert 3

[jjpm74]

Dwight Gooden 2
Ted Simmons 4
Frank White 2
Buddy Bell 2
Johnny Damon 2
Darrrell Evans 2
Bernie Williams 3
Todd Helton 4
Ivan Rodriquez 5
Carlos Delgado 2
Keith Hernandez 4
Lon Warneke 3
Dave Stewart 1
Sam McDowell 1
Manny Ramirez 3
Jack Clark 2
Maury Wills 1
Dennis Martinez 1
Graig Nettles 3
Jake Daubert 2

[Bothrops Atrox]

but I think you have to either consider it or not consider it, and I'm not sure I buy that everyone here finds it totally irrelevant.

Looks like that is what everybody is doing. If you do not buy that the posters so far find it totally irrelevant, are you suggesting that we are lying? I am confused.

Of course it is only four or so posters. We could easily see four straight that have him at 1.

[Cougar]

Dwight Gooden - 3 - If only...
Ted Simmons - 4 - His exclusion has been hard to fathom; had most hits by a catcher until IRod.
Frank White - 3 - He's got the Mazeroski precedent, and was so valuable and versatile on the Royals teams o the 70s and 80s. Batted cleanup on 1985 WS winner!
Buddy Bell - 3 - Really has everything except a career year.
Johnny Damon - 3 - He's got a case on compiling, and he has some great moments on title teams. CF leadoff types are perpetually underappreciated.
Darrell Evans - 4 - Hit 400 HR when it meant something. Power and patience.
Bernie Williams - 4 - Another underrated centerfielder. Did everything well...possibly best player on Yankee 1996-2000 dynasty.
Todd Helton - 5 - Final numbers will be such that he can't be ignored, despite Coors: .320/.419/.545 at this writing.
Ivan Rodriquez - 5 - Most games at C, most hits at C, most GG at C -- need I go on?
Carlos Delgado - 3 - Hit 400 HR when it meant less to do so. His raw totals demand consideration, but he may be the guy with the most HR not in.
Keith Hernandez - 4 - Best defensive 1b must be wirth something, and great OBP and winning as leader of two WS teams.
Lon Warneke - 3 - Peaked early; just missed 200 wins, which puts him more on radar. Arkansas Hummingbird -- HOF nickname.
Dave Stewart - 2 - Memorable, fine player, but only 4 seasons of HOF quality. Gutsy, clutch pitcher. Interesting post-playing career.
Sam McDowell - 2 - Wild, spectacular fireballer; lost HOF career to drink. A Randy Johnson type who never harnessed it like Big Unit did.
Manny Ramirez - 5 - On the numbers, can't be anything else, and I don't know what to do about the PED thing.
Jack Clark - 2 - Probably has a HOF career if he stayed healthy. Played 150 games only three times.
Maury Wills - 3 - Not much stick but legs changed the game.
Dennis Martinez - 3 - The third pitcher on this list that had "5" potential; might have come closest to reaching it.
Graig Nettles - 4 - HR and glove should have him in Cooperstown; BA keeping him out.
Jake Daubert - 2 - Superb deadball player, but there are so many good first basemen ahead of him.

[toomanyhatz]

Looks like that is what everybody is doing. If you do not buy that the posters so far find it totally irrelevant, are you suggesting that we are lying? I am confused.

Of course it is only four or so posters. We could easily see four straight that have him at 1.

No, I'm saying it's a reflexive opinion- and maybe a fair one, I don't know- and that there's a chance that some people would change their mind if they thought it through. I'm mainly just expressing surprise. I equate giving him a 5 with saying PEDs are thoroughly irrelevent as, if anyone's to be punished for it, surely he's the poster child.

Well, maybe Palmiero's the best one, since he adds hypocrisy to the mix, but certainly Manny's #2.

It's all moot anyway, I suppose, as we're not the voters. Once he's eligible, I'd be shocked if he got more than 10%.

[SavoyBG]

Dwight Gooden - 3
Ted Simmons - 4
Frank White - 2
Buddy Bell - 3
Johnny Damon - 2
Darrrell Evans - 4
Bernie Williams - 3
Todd Helton - 4
Ivan Rodriquez - 5
Carlos Delgado - 3
Keith Hernandez - 5
Lon Warneke - 4
Dave Stewart - 3
Sam McDowell - 3
Manny Ramirez - 4
Jack Clark - 3
Maury Wills - 4
Dennis Martinez - 3
Graig Nettles - 4
Jake Daubert - 3

[leecemark]

Dwight Gooden - 2
Ted Simmons - 5
Frank White - 2
Buddy Bell - 3
Johnny Damon - 3
Darrrell Evans - 3
Bernie Williams - 3
Todd Helton - 3
Ivan Rodriquez - 5
Carlos Delgado - 3
Keith Hernandez - 4
Lon Warneke - 2
Dave Stewart - 2
Sam McDowell - 2
Manny Ramirez - ? 5 on the numbers and I'm hardly a fanatic against even proven PED users. Guys like Bonds, Clemens and A-Rod I'd support regardless of what comes out (or at least I do with what has). Where there is nothing but rumors I don't discount at all. But a guy who kept right on using even after testing....I'd probably eventually hold my nose and give him my vote, but with the upcoming log jam he'd be waiting awhile for that to happen.
Jack Clark - 2
Maury Wills - 3
Dennis Martinez - 3
Graig Nettles - 4
Jake Daubert - 2