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  • Here's 20 more , please rate them

    I've enjoyed reading and ranking the reults of my 1st 3 threads of this nature. Those results were just posted on another thread. Here are 20 new players to rate for HOF consideration. The rating scale continues as such.

    5-Why is he not in? (if he was eligible)
    4- Has a good case
    3- marginal, has some merit
    2-comes up short
    1-are you kidding me?

    Here are the 20, I especially enjoy reading the comments along with the rating thanks.


    Dwight Gooden
    Ted Simmons
    Frank White
    Buddy Bell
    Johnny Damon
    Darrrell Evans
    Bernie Williams
    Todd Helton
    Ivan Rodriquez
    Carlos Delgado
    Keith Hernandez
    Lon Warneke
    Dave Stewart
    Sam McDowell
    Manny Ramirez
    Jack Clark
    Maury Wills
    Dennis Martinez
    Graig Nettles
    Jake Daubert
    This week's Giant

    #5 in games played as a Giant with 1721 , Bill Terry

  • #2
    Originally posted by JR Hart View Post
    I've enjoyed reading and ranking the reults of my 1st 3 threads of this nature. Those results were just posted on another thread. Here are 20 new players to rate for HOF consideration. The rating scale continues as such.

    5-Why is he not in? (if he was eligible)
    4- Has a good case
    3- marginal, has some merit
    2-comes up short
    1-are you kidding me?

    Here are the 20, I especially enjoy reading the comments along with the rating thanks.


    Dwight Gooden 3
    Ted Simmons 4
    Frank White 2
    Buddy Bell 3
    Johnny Damon 2
    Darrrell Evans 3
    Bernie Williams 3
    Todd Helton 3
    Ivan Rodriquez 3
    Carlos Delgado 4
    Keith Hernandez 2
    Lon Warneke 3
    Dave Stewart 2
    Sam McDowell 2
    Manny Ramirez 4
    Jack Clark 2
    Maury Wills 2
    Dennis Martinez 3
    Graig Nettles 3
    Jake Daubert 2
    You can see my replies above.

    Comment


    • #3
      Dwight Gooden-3
      Ted Simmons- 4
      Frank White- 2
      Buddy Bell- 3
      Johnny Damon- 3
      Darell Evans- 3
      Bernie Williams- 3
      Todd Helton- 3
      Ivan Rodriguez- 5
      Carlos Delgado- 3
      Keith Hernandez- 3
      Lon Warneke- 3
      Dave Stewart- 2
      Sam McDowell- 2
      Manny Ramirez- 5
      Jack Clark- 3
      Maury Wills- 2
      Dennis Martinez- 3
      Graig Nettles- 3
      Jake Daubert- 2

      Comment


      • #4
        Dwight Gooden -2
        Ted Simmons - 4
        Frank White - 2
        Buddy Bell - 3
        Johnny Damon - 2
        Darrrell Evans - 3
        Bernie Williams - 3
        Todd Helton - 4
        Ivan Rodriquez - 5
        Carlos Delgado - 2
        Keith Hernandez - 3
        Lon Warneke - 2
        Dave Stewart - 1
        Sam McDowell - 1
        Manny Ramirez - 5
        Jack Clark - 2
        Maury Wills - 2
        Dennis Martinez - 1
        Graig Nettles - 4
        Jake Daubert -2
        Last edited by Bothrops Atrox; 10-30-2012, 06:49 AM.
        1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

        1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

        1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


        The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
        The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

        Comment


        • #5
          Dwight Gooden - 2
          Ted Simmons - 3
          Frank White - 2
          Buddy Bell - 2
          Johnny Damon - 3
          Darrrell Evans - 2
          Bernie Williams - 2
          Todd Helton - 3
          Ivan Rodriquez - 4
          Carlos Delgado - 3
          Keith Hernandez - 2
          Lon Warneke - 1
          Dave Stewart - 1
          Sam McDowell - 1
          Manny Ramirez - 5
          Jack Clark - 2
          Maury Wills - 2
          Dennis Martinez - 1
          Graig Nettles - 3
          Jake Daubert - 2

          Comment


          • #6
            Dwight Gooden -3 - Peak years of a HoFer for sure. Shame about the drugs.
            Ted Simmons - 4 - Best eligible catcher not in.
            Frank White - 1 - He'd have to be an even greater fielder than he was to make up for the sub-.300 career OBP.
            Buddy Bell - 2 - Underrated in the same ways as Darrel Evans, only a bit worse and for less time.
            Johnny Damon - 3 - If not for the rapid defensive decline, he'd have a much better shot. Still, will probably just miss 3,000 hits, and one of the best power/speed combos of his era
            Darrell Evans - 4 - Unfair that the low BA hurts him more than the 400 + HRs helps. A great player who, as James says, compares favorably with Perez, who's in.
            Bernie Williams - 4 - Hate to say it 'cause he was a Yankee, but a great player and an important cog in some classic teams. And if DiMaggio's not punished for the short career, why should he be?
            Todd Helton - 3 - Ballpark factor will hurt him- as it should, I suppose- but like Larry Walker there was more to him than home splits.
            Ivan Rodriquez - 4 - Would the long-rumored position change have hurt or helped? We'll never know, but he's not that far behind Bench as things stand now.
            Carlos Delgado - 3 - Remember when 400 HR meant something?
            Keith Hernandez - 4 - On a level with Gil Hodges, who should also be in.
            Lon Warneke - 3 - Very underrated. Great peak and it lasted ten years. Still, probably not quite enough. There are worse pitchers already in, of course.
            Dave Stewart - 1 - 4-year peak and a 100 career ERA+. He has a better chance getting in as an agent.
            Sam McDowell - 2 - Is it my imagination, or are his peak years as good as Nolan Ryan's? Still, not enough of them. One of the greatest ever from '68-'70.
            Manny Ramirez - 3 - Very tough call. A great player with or without the help, and I'm not one for disqualifying based on rumors, but he was actually caught.
            Jack Clark - 3 - Slightly below Hernandez/Hodges level. Borderline.
            Maury Wills - 4 - Not the kind of OBP you want to see from a leadoff guy, and late start hurts, but still- changed the game in a way that few did, which has to be worth something.
            Dennis Martinez - 2 - If his 3 or 4 terrible years were even average ones for him, he'd have a case.
            Graig Nettles - 3 - Compares favorably with Evans so I guess he's got a case- worse hitter, better fielder. Hitting's worth more, or they'd be ranked equally.
            Jake Daubert - 1 - A good 1B in an era of great ones.
            Found in a fortune cookie On Thursday, August 18th, 2005: "Hard words break no bones, Kind words butter no parsnips."

            1955 1959 1963 1965 1981 1988 2017?

            Comment


            • #7
              Dwight Gooden - 1
              Ted Simmons - 4
              Frank White - 1
              Buddy Bell - 1
              Johnny Damon - 1
              Darrrell Evans - 3
              Bernie Williams - 3
              Todd Helton - 5
              Ivan Rodriquez - 5
              Carlos Delgado - 3
              Keith Hernandez - 3
              Lon Warneke - 2
              Dave Stewart - 1
              Sam McDowell - 1
              Manny Ramirez - 5
              Jack Clark - 1
              Maury Wills - 1
              Dennis Martinez - 1
              Graig Nettles - 2
              Jake Daubert - 1

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm pretty shocked to be the only one rating Manny below a 5. Considering how much suspicion has hurt the already-eligible (VERY unfairly so in the case of Bagwell, which is nothing but guilt-by-association), how should we handle the cases of those who have actually been caught multiple times? Does McGwire rate a 5? Bonds? A-Rod? I get the whole "if we start eliminating people for moral reasons we have to take Hornsby, Anson, Cobb, etc. out" thing, but I think you have to either consider it or not consider it, and I'm not sure I buy that everyone here finds it totally irrelevant.
                Found in a fortune cookie On Thursday, August 18th, 2005: "Hard words break no bones, Kind words butter no parsnips."

                1955 1959 1963 1965 1981 1988 2017?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Dwight Gooden 1
                  Ted Simmons 2
                  Frank White 1
                  Buddy Bell 1
                  Johnny Damon 2
                  Darrrell Evans 5
                  Bernie Williams 3
                  Todd Helton 2
                  Ivan Rodriquez 4
                  Carlos Delgado 5
                  Keith Hernandez 3
                  Lon Warneke 2
                  Dave Stewart 1
                  Sam McDowell 2
                  Manny Ramirez 5
                  Jack Clark 3
                  Maury Wills 2
                  Dennis Martinez 2
                  Graig Nettles 3
                  Jake Daubert 3
                  My dream ballpark dimensions
                  LF: 388 Feet...Height 37 Feet...LCF: 455 Feet...CF: 542 Feet...Height 35 Feet
                  RCF: 471 Feet...RF: 400 Feet...Height 60 Feet
                  Location....San Diego

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Dwight Gooden 2
                    Ted Simmons 4
                    Frank White 2
                    Buddy Bell 2
                    Johnny Damon 2
                    Darrrell Evans 2
                    Bernie Williams 3
                    Todd Helton 4
                    Ivan Rodriquez 5
                    Carlos Delgado 2
                    Keith Hernandez 4
                    Lon Warneke 3
                    Dave Stewart 1
                    Sam McDowell 1
                    Manny Ramirez 3
                    Jack Clark 2
                    Maury Wills 1
                    Dennis Martinez 1
                    Graig Nettles 3
                    Jake Daubert 2

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by toomanyhatz View Post
                      but I think you have to either consider it or not consider it, and I'm not sure I buy that everyone here finds it totally irrelevant.
                      Looks like that is what everybody is doing. If you do not buy that the posters so far find it totally irrelevant, are you suggesting that we are lying? I am confused.

                      Of course it is only four or so posters. We could easily see four straight that have him at 1.
                      1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                      1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                      1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                      The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                      The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Dwight Gooden - 3 - If only...
                        Ted Simmons - 4 - His exclusion has been hard to fathom; had most hits by a catcher until IRod.
                        Frank White - 3 - He's got the Mazeroski precedent, and was so valuable and versatile on the Royals teams o the 70s and 80s. Batted cleanup on 1985 WS winner!
                        Buddy Bell - 3 - Really has everything except a career year.
                        Johnny Damon - 3 - He's got a case on compiling, and he has some great moments on title teams. CF leadoff types are perpetually underappreciated.
                        Darrell Evans - 4 - Hit 400 HR when it meant something. Power and patience.
                        Bernie Williams - 4 - Another underrated centerfielder. Did everything well...possibly best player on Yankee 1996-2000 dynasty.
                        Todd Helton - 5 - Final numbers will be such that he can't be ignored, despite Coors: .320/.419/.545 at this writing.
                        Ivan Rodriquez - 5 - Most games at C, most hits at C, most GG at C -- need I go on?
                        Carlos Delgado - 3 - Hit 400 HR when it meant less to do so. His raw totals demand consideration, but he may be the guy with the most HR not in.
                        Keith Hernandez - 4 - Best defensive 1b must be wirth something, and great OBP and winning as leader of two WS teams.
                        Lon Warneke - 3 - Peaked early; just missed 200 wins, which puts him more on radar. Arkansas Hummingbird -- HOF nickname.
                        Dave Stewart - 2 - Memorable, fine player, but only 4 seasons of HOF quality. Gutsy, clutch pitcher. Interesting post-playing career.
                        Sam McDowell - 2 - Wild, spectacular fireballer; lost HOF career to drink. A Randy Johnson type who never harnessed it like Big Unit did.
                        Manny Ramirez - 5 - On the numbers, can't be anything else, and I don't know what to do about the PED thing.
                        Jack Clark - 2 - Probably has a HOF career if he stayed healthy. Played 150 games only three times.
                        Maury Wills - 3 - Not much stick but legs changed the game.
                        Dennis Martinez - 3 - The third pitcher on this list that had "5" potential; might have come closest to reaching it.
                        Graig Nettles - 4 - HR and glove should have him in Cooperstown; BA keeping him out.
                        Jake Daubert - 2 - Superb deadball player, but there are so many good first basemen ahead of him.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Matthew C. View Post
                          Looks like that is what everybody is doing. If you do not buy that the posters so far find it totally irrelevant, are you suggesting that we are lying? I am confused.

                          Of course it is only four or so posters. We could easily see four straight that have him at 1.
                          No, I'm saying it's a reflexive opinion- and maybe a fair one, I don't know- and that there's a chance that some people would change their mind if they thought it through. I'm mainly just expressing surprise. I equate giving him a 5 with saying PEDs are thoroughly irrelevent as, if anyone's to be punished for it, surely he's the poster child.

                          Well, maybe Palmiero's the best one, since he adds hypocrisy to the mix, but certainly Manny's #2.

                          It's all moot anyway, I suppose, as we're not the voters. Once he's eligible, I'd be shocked if he got more than 10%.
                          Found in a fortune cookie On Thursday, August 18th, 2005: "Hard words break no bones, Kind words butter no parsnips."

                          1955 1959 1963 1965 1981 1988 2017?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Dwight Gooden - 3
                            Ted Simmons - 4
                            Frank White - 2
                            Buddy Bell - 3
                            Johnny Damon - 2
                            Darrrell Evans - 4
                            Bernie Williams - 3
                            Todd Helton - 4
                            Ivan Rodriquez - 5
                            Carlos Delgado - 3
                            Keith Hernandez - 5
                            Lon Warneke - 4
                            Dave Stewart - 3
                            Sam McDowell - 3
                            Manny Ramirez - 4
                            Jack Clark - 3
                            Maury Wills - 4
                            Dennis Martinez - 3
                            Graig Nettles - 4
                            Jake Daubert - 3

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Dwight Gooden - 2
                              Ted Simmons - 5
                              Frank White - 2
                              Buddy Bell - 3
                              Johnny Damon - 3
                              Darrrell Evans - 3
                              Bernie Williams - 3
                              Todd Helton - 3
                              Ivan Rodriquez - 5
                              Carlos Delgado - 3
                              Keith Hernandez - 4
                              Lon Warneke - 2
                              Dave Stewart - 2
                              Sam McDowell - 2
                              Manny Ramirez - ? 5 on the numbers and I'm hardly a fanatic against even proven PED users. Guys like Bonds, Clemens and A-Rod I'd support regardless of what comes out (or at least I do with what has). Where there is nothing but rumors I don't discount at all. But a guy who kept right on using even after testing....I'd probably eventually hold my nose and give him my vote, but with the upcoming log jam he'd be waiting awhile for that to happen.
                              Jack Clark - 2
                              Maury Wills - 3
                              Dennis Martinez - 3
                              Graig Nettles - 4
                              Jake Daubert - 2

                              Comment

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