Stu Miller

[Cowtipper]

Stu Miller spent 16 years in the big leagues, going 105-103 with 154 saves and a 3.24 ERA in 704 games. The 1961 All-Star led the league in ERA once, games played once, saves twice, games finished once, ERA+ once, pitcher putouts once and pitcher fielding percentage three times. He earned MVP votes four times, finishing as high as seventh in the balloting.

Miller began his career as a starting pitcher and had some success, but it wasn't until he moved into the bullpen that he found his stride. From 1958 to 1967, he averaged 57 appearances and 15 saves a year while posting a 2.77 ERA. He had an even better stretch from 1963 to 1967, when he averaged eight wins, 20 saves and 45 games finished a year, while posting a 2.37 ERA. His 128 saves in those five years were the most of any pitcher in the big leagues.

Statistically, he is similar to Dave Guisti, Turk Farrell, Mike Marshall, Tug McGraw, Dick Tidrow, Bob Stanley, Roy Face, Steve Bedrosian, Gene Garber and Billy O'Dell.

What do you think about Stu Miller? Should he be in the Hall of Fame? Did he have Hall of Fame potential?

[Fuzzy Bear]

Miller played in an era where (A) releivers were considered to be, in general, guys not good enough to start, (B) relievers were usually not selected for the All-Star Game and (C) relievers were used in a more general way. Miller was a "fireman" who could come into the game at any time and get a win or a save. He could often be expected to come into a game and pitch more than 1 inning. He was a good pitcher, but not a HOFer. If I were going to look at "fireman" for the HOF, the line would start with John Hiller and Elroy Face, with Ron Perranoski getting a look. I would also reconsider Sparky Lyle and Mike Marshall long before I'd look at Stu Miller.

[westsidegrounds]

Hall of Very Good.

Nice career WPA, though.

[Cougar]

If relievers started getting into the Hall at a similar rate as starters, I can see a case for Miller. So I voted "Maybe".

That's not on the horizon, however.

[chicagowhitesox1173]

He probably deserves some credit but I would say there are several relievers who deserve more.

[Cowtipper]

I gave him a "maybe" as well. I'm not too opposed to having some of the early successful relievers/closers in the Hall of Fame. They were 'pioneers' of sort.

[Steven Gallanter]

Miller played in an era where (A) releivers were considered to be, in general, guys not good enough to start, (B) relievers were usually not selected for the All-Star Game and (C) relievers were used in a more general way. Miller was a "fireman" who could come into the game at any time and get a win or a save. He could often be expected to come into a game and pitch more than 1 inning. He was a good pitcher, but not a HOFer. If I were going to look at "fireman" for the HOF, the line would start with John Hiller and Elroy Face, with Ron Perranoski getting a look. I would also reconsider Sparky Lyle and Mike Marshall long before I'd look at Stu Miller.

Good posting Fuzzy Bear! You have got it just about where I have it. Stu Miller was certainly very good. The "fireman" usage pattern often involved coming in with runner(s) on base. It was like defusing a bomb. Stu Miller was one of the fireman from the time when I first became aware of baseball. He is definitely in the Hall of Very Good.

[Freakshow]

All pitchers retired by 1985, minimum 14 WAR and 300 Games Finished

Rk           Player ERA+  WAR  GF  SV     IP From   To    G   W   L  ERA
1      Hoyt Wilhelm  147 47.4 651 227 2254.1 1952 1972 1070 143 122 2.52
2       John Hiller  134 29.6 363 125 1242.0 1965 1980  545  87  76 2.83
3       Sparky Lyle  128 21.4 634 238 1390.1 1967 1982  899  99  76 2.88
4    Ron Perranoski  124 17.5 458 179 1174.2 1961 1973  737  79  74 2.79
5      Clay Carroll  121 17.2 373 143 1353.1 1964 1978  731  96  73 2.94
6       Don McMahon  120 21.0 506 153 1310.2 1957 1974  874  90  68 2.96
7    Rollie Fingers  120 23.3 709 341 1701.1 1968 1985  944 114 118 2.90
8     Tom Burgmeier  119 15.8 370 102 1258.2 1968 1984  745  79  55 3.23
9     Mike Marshall  118 15.6 549 188 1386.2 1967 1981  723  97 112 3.14
10       Tug McGraw  117 19.7 541 180 1514.2 1965 1984  824  96  92 3.14
11       Stu Miller  115 25.5 405 154 1693.1 1952 1968  704 105 103 3.24
12       Jim Brewer  111 14.8 351 132 1040.1 1960 1976  584  69  65 3.07
13   Al Worthington  110 15.6 314 110 1246.2 1953 1969  602  75  82 3.39
14   Lindy McDaniel  110 26.2 577 172 2139.1 1955 1975  987 141 119 3.45
15         Roy Face  109 19.5 574 193 1375.0 1953 1969  848 104  95 3.48
16         Ron Reed  108 22.4 300 103 2477.2 1966 1984  751 146 140 3.46
17    Ted Abernathy  107 15.7 416 148 1148.1 1955 1972  681  63  69 3.46
18     Turk Farrell  104 26.0 301  83 1704.2 1956 1969  590 106 111 3.45
19        Ron Kline  102 17.9 338 108 2078.0 1952 1970  736 114 144 3.75
20      Dave Giusti   95 14.8 380 145 1716.2 1962 1977  668 100  93 3.60

[westsidegrounds]

All pitchers retired by 1985, minimum 14 WAR and 300 Games Finished

Rk           Player ERA+  WAR  GF  SV     IP From   To    G   W   L  ERA
1      Hoyt Wilhelm  147 47.4 651 227 2254.1 1952 1972 1070 143 122 2.52
2       John Hiller  134 29.6 363 125 1242.0 1965 1980  545  87  76 2.83
3       Sparky Lyle  128 21.4 634 238 1390.1 1967 1982  899  99  76 2.88
4    Ron Perranoski  124 17.5 458 179 1174.2 1961 1973  737  79  74 2.79
5      Clay Carroll  121 17.2 373 143 1353.1 1964 1978  731  96  73 2.94
6       Don McMahon  120 21.0 506 153 1310.2 1957 1974  874  90  68 2.96
7    Rollie Fingers  120 23.3 709 341 1701.1 1968 1985  944 114 118 2.90
8     Tom Burgmeier  119 15.8 370 102 1258.2 1968 1984  745  79  55 3.23
9     Mike Marshall  118 15.6 549 188 1386.2 1967 1981  723  97 112 3.14
10       Tug McGraw  117 19.7 541 180 1514.2 1965 1984  824  96  92 3.14
11       Stu Miller  115 25.5 405 154 1693.1 1952 1968  704 105 103 3.24
12       Jim Brewer  111 14.8 351 132 1040.1 1960 1976  584  69  65 3.07
13   Al Worthington  110 15.6 314 110 1246.2 1953 1969  602  75  82 3.39
14   Lindy McDaniel  110 26.2 577 172 2139.1 1955 1975  987 141 119 3.45
15         Roy Face  109 19.5 574 193 1375.0 1953 1969  848 104  95 3.48
16         Ron Reed  108 22.4 300 103 2477.2 1966 1984  751 146 140 3.46
17    Ted Abernathy  107 15.7 416 148 1148.1 1955 1972  681  63  69 3.46
18     Turk Farrell  104 26.0 301  83 1704.2 1956 1969  590 106 111 3.45
19        Ron Kline  102 17.9 338 108 2078.0 1952 1970  736 114 144 3.75
20      Dave Giusti   95 14.8 380 145 1716.2 1962 1977  668 100  93 3.60

Ted Abernathy!

Boy, there's a name I haven't heard for a while. He was always fun to watch.

Good pitcher.

[KCGHOST]

Good but not Great.

[ol' aches and pains]

He's not a HOF'r, his main claim to fame is for being blown off the mound by the wind at Candlestick Park in his only All-Star appearance.

[westsidegrounds]

He's not a HOF'r, his main claim to fame is for being blown off the mound by the wind at Candlestick Park in his only All-Star appearance.

No, that is not his "main claim to fame". His main claim to fame is being one of the best relief pitchers of his era.

It's what he is best known for, among casual fans. Except it's not even true, he wasn't blown off the mound, a gust of wind caused him to pause in mid-windup, resulting in a balk call. And it wasn't his "only All-Star appearance", he was in both AS Games in 1961. In the second game he pitched three innings, gave up one hit, allowed no runs, walked none, and struck out five.

[1905 Giants]

He's not a HOF'r, his main claim to fame is for being blown off the mound by the wind at Candlestick Park in his only All-Star appearance.

Actually according to a player poll his main claim to fame is having the best change-up of his era. ("Player's Choice" 1987)

Here's some quotes about Miller from "The Neyer/James Guide to Pitchers"

"There is nothing so enjoyable as watching him frustrate an opposing slugger with that head fake and his annoying assortment of slow pitches." -Sporting News

"He had the greatest change-up in the world, without any question." - Billy Pierce

"Stu Miller had the best change-up ever." - Dick Hall

"If it wasn't the best change-up ever, it was one of the best." - Frank Robinson

[ol' aches and pains]

He's not a HOF'r, his main claim to fame is for being blown off the mound by the wind at Candlestick Park in his only All-Star appearance.

No, that is not his "main claim to fame". His main claim to fame is being one of the best relief pitchers of his era.

It's what he is best known for, among casual fans. Except it's not even true, he wasn't blown off the mound, a gust of wind caused him to pause in mid-windup, resulting in a balk call. And it wasn't his "only All-Star appearance", he was in both AS Games in 1961. In the second game he pitched three innings, gave up one hit, allowed no runs, walked none, and struck out five.

Actually according to a player poll his main claim to fame is having the best change-up of his era. ("Player's Choice" 1987)

Here's some quotes about Miller from "The Neyer/James Guide to Pitchers"

"There is nothing so enjoyable as watching him frustrate an opposing slugger with that head fake and his annoying assortment of slow pitches." -Sporting News

"He had the greatest change-up in the world, without any question." - Billy Pierce

"Stu Miller had the best change-up ever." - Dick Hall

"If it wasn't the best change-up ever, it was one of the best." - Frank Robinson

OK, at BBF he's better known, but ask any fan on the street or at the ballpark, and in the unlikely event they've heard of Miller at all, it will be for being blown off the mound, whether it actually happened or not.

[TomBodet]

I love these guys like Miller, Doug Jones and Mike Boddicker who basically throw water balloons over the plate. Stu was no Hof but he was good.