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Rank the Veteran's Committee candidates

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  • Rank the Veteran's Committee candidates

    This is a simple exercise: rank the candidates for the Veteran's Committee 1-10 as a measure of who we think they should take first, second, and so forth. The voting will remain open until Saturday, December 1 at 7 am EST, at which point, I will publish the results, giving 10 points for 1st down to 1 point for 10th. The 10 candidates in question are:

    Samuel Breadon
    Bill Dahlen
    Wes Ferrell
    Marty Marion
    Tony Mullane
    Hank O’Day
    Al Reach
    Jacob Ruppert
    Bucky Walters
    Deacon White

    There's been some discussion about them already in this thread: http://www.baseball-fever.com/showth...n-era-released
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  • #2
    Dahlen
    Ferrell
    White
    Reach
    Ruppert
    Mullane
    Walters
    Braden
    O'Day
    Marion
    Last edited by jalbright; 11-02-2012, 03:46 PM.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

    Comment


    • #3
      Bill Dahlen
      Tony Mullane
      Deacon White
      Jacob Ruppert
      Al Reach
      Wes Ferrell
      Bucky Walters
      Marty Marion
      Samuel Breadon
      Hank O’Day

      Comment


      • #4
        1. Bill Dahlen
        2. Tony Mullane
        3. Bucky Walters
        4. Wes Ferrell
        5. Jacob Ruppert
        6. Deacon White
        7. Al Reach
        8. Hank O'Day
        9. Samuel Breadon
        10. Marty Marion
        Last edited by chicagowhitesox1173; 11-02-2012, 10:51 AM.
        "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

        "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

        Comment


        • #5
          1. Al Reach
          2. Jacob Ruppert
          3. Deacon White
          4. Bill Dahlen
          5. Wes Ferrell
          ----hof line-------
          6. Bucky Walters
          7. Hank O'Day
          8. Tony Mullane
          9. Samuel Breadon
          10. Marty Marion

          Comment


          • #6
            1. Jacob Ruppert
            2. Bill Dahlen
            3. Deacon White
            -------------------Should------------
            4. Tony Mullane
            5. Al Reach
            -------------------
            6. Bucky Walters
            -------------------HOF Line----------
            7. Samuel Breadon
            8. Wes Ferrell
            -------------------Will Tolerate-------
            9. Hank O'Day
            -------------------
            -------------------
            -------------------
            10. Marty Marion

            Comment


            • #7
              How the heck did Marty Marion make it as a candidate?
              Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

              Comment


              • #8
                1) Deacon White
                2) Bill Dahlen
                3) Wes Ferrell
                4) Jacob Ruppert
                5) Al Reach
                -------------
                6) Tony Mullane
                7) Bucky Walters
                8) Sam Breaden
                --------------
                9) Hank O'Day
                10) Marty Marion

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
                  How the heck did Marty Marion make it as a candidate?
                  Yeah, I think his name sticks out like a sore thumb against the rest of the players' names.

                  OK, so in the last 7 straight years of his eligibility he garnered between 30%-40% of the vote each year. But so what? If elected, he would be the worst SS in the Hall. Actually, you know, he would be the worst IFer in the Hall. He would be the 2nd least deserving player to date.

                  Perhaps it's a sign that my own rankings need to be tweaked, but at the moment, I personally have Marion ranked in the same bracket as Juan Samuel.
                  Last edited by dgarza; 11-02-2012, 10:39 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    --I guess you had to be there? Good glove, no stick SS with a short career and his "peak", including his mystifying MVP award in a war depleted league. I don't see the attraction.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I put him up too high. I just looked at his stats and although seems to have been a very respected player during his career having won a MVP and making several all-star teams, he really doesn't deserve to be on this list. I thought he missed time during WW2 but he played the whole time. This doesn't make sense how they leave Cecil Travis off who had a better career even though missing 4 years to the war. I don't see how you don't honor a guy like that.
                      "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

                      "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        There's a Marty Marion thread (or two) somewhere, but I can't find it. Maybe someone better at searching than I can dig it up and bump it.

                        If you take contemporary opinion seriously at all, you've got to respect Marion. He was considered the best shortstop in the NL, and a linchpin of the Cardinal dynasty in the 1940s. His All-Star appearances and MVP prove this. His bat, while weak generally, was quite good for a shortstop of that era. His glove, by all accounts, was remarkably good.

                        He's on the borderline for me, but I felt he needed some defending in this thread...it was getting to be a pile-on.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          --Lou Boudreau, Luke Appling, Johnny Pesky, Vern Stephens, Pee Wee Reese and (sort of ) Joe Cronin and Cecil Travis were contemporary SS who were significantly better hitters so I'm not sure he was even a particularly good hitter for a SS. Rizzuto was a better hitter, also a very good glove man with a longer career and even more (alot more) championships and is generally considered a very borderline Hall of Famer. Marion WAS greatly respected while active and was perhaps the best defender of his day, but even Ozzie Smith's defense wouldn't have gotten him to the Hall had his career been as short as Marion's.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cougar View Post
                            There's a Marty Marion thread (or two) somewhere, but I can't find it. Maybe someone better at searching than I can dig it up and bump it.
                            This is all I could find (note sure if they're worth bumpinig) : http://www.baseball-fever.com/search...archid=2052887

                            If you take contemporary opinion seriously at all, you've got to respect Marion. He was considered the best shortstop in the NL, and a linchpin of the Cardinal dynasty in the 1940s. His All-Star appearances and MVP prove this. His bat, while weak generally, was quite good for a shortstop of that era. His glove, by all accounts, was remarkably good.

                            He's on the borderline for me, but I felt he needed some defending in this thread...it was getting to be a pile-on.
                            He probably was the best defensive SS of the 40s, but there are several '40s SS already in the Hall, so it's not like there's a shortage there (even though Vern Stephens is still missing, although deserving, so I'll include him).
                            In the NL, how was he viewed in comparison to Pee Wee Reese and Arky Vaughan?

                            Code:
                                                                                                                                        
                            Rk          Player WAR/pos OPS+ Rfield From   To   Age    G   R    H  2B 3B  HR RBI  BB SB CS   BA  OBP  SLG
                            1     Lou Boudreau    56.2  126    109 1940 1949 22-31 1425 758 1578 339 59  62 692 706 47 47 .300 .385 .422
                            2     Luke Appling    38.1  120     21 1940 1949 33-42 1188 613 1376 207 41  22 488 666 91 52 .312 .403 .392
                            3    Pee Wee Reese    32.3  102     73 1940 1949 21-30  987 609  981 153 35  52 408 581   108 .267 .369 .370
                            4    Vern Stephens    32.2  125    -12 1941 1949 20-28 1154 708 1290 205 31 177 824 495 19 15 .288 .360 .466
                            5     Marty Marion    29.0   83    126 1940 1949 22-31 1396 550 1310 251 35  30 565 407    34 .265 .323 .348
                            8     Arky Vaughan    19.5  123      5 1940 1948 28-36  668 419  690 125 34  25 295 297    52 .297 .379 .413
                            9     Phil Rizzuto    18.8   91     68 1941 1949 23-31  837 450  872 122 35  22 327 294 85 35 .275 .342 .357
                            12      Joe Cronin    10.2  131    -16 1940 1945 33-38  475 242  414  87 14  54 288 228  9 14 .291 .390 .486
                            Last edited by dgarza; 11-02-2012, 11:15 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Heres Marion vs Travis

                              Marty Marion
                              1572games 5506atbats 602runs 1448hits 272doubles 37triples 36hr 624rbi 263avg 323obp 345slg 81ops+
                              Cecil Travis
                              1328games 4914atbats 665runs 1544hits 265doubles 78triples 27hr 657rbi 314avg 370obp 416slg 108ops+

                              I think Cecil Travis should get bigtime war credit too for missing 4 years of his career. His prime years too.
                              Last edited by chicagowhitesox1173; 11-02-2012, 11:19 AM.
                              "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

                              "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

                              Comment

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