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Bad Bill Dahlen, how did the Hall miss this guy?

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  • Bad Bill Dahlen, how did the Hall miss this guy?

    Had great career, played in Nyc, lasted til 1907, did the usual things you'd expect a Hof of the era to do.....so what's the deal? Never understood this one.

  • #2
    The good news is that there's a chance to rectify the oversight this coming VC vote.

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    • #3
      Bad Bill is deserving, lets hope they do the right thing here this time.

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      • #4
        I looked him up. I'm not seeing it. Please give me his case?
        This week's Giant

        #5 in games played as a Giant with 1721 , Bill Terry

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        • #5
          He's got a nice career war. I think it's around 70-75.
          "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

          "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

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          • #6
            Originally posted by JR Hart View Post
            I looked him up. I'm not seeing it. Please give me his case?
            --Alot of his value comes from his defense. He was supposedly terrific with the glove. I'm not as bullish on Dahlen as alot of people, but if the reports of his defense are correct he is a solid Hall of Famer.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by leecemark View Post
              --Alot of his value comes from his defense. He was supposedly terrific with the glove. I'm not as bullish on Dahlen as alot of people, but if the reports of his defense are correct he is a solid Hall of Famer.
              If his glove was great, then I see it. He played a long time and has solid, but unremarkable batting stats.
              This week's Giant

              #5 in games played as a Giant with 1721 , Bill Terry

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              • #8
                He stole over 500 bases, I would say that also adds alot to his resume.
                "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

                "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

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                • #9
                  Longevtiy + amazing glove + 500 SBs + SS + well-above average offense for a SS = easy HOFer.
                  1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                  1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                  1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                  The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                  The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

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                  • #10
                    Kind of seems like Cal Ripken, with speed. Excellent SS defense, around a 110 OPS+, with a couple of outlier great seasons. His batting average probably seemed underwhelming, or even very weak at the time, when guys like Delahanty, Burkett, Hamilton,Wagner, and Cobb were batting around .400 every year.
                    Last edited by willshad; 11-05-2012, 09:53 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Matthew C. View Post
                      Longevtiy + amazing glove + 500 SBs + SS + well-above average offense for a SS = easy HOFer.
                      Clearly not so easy seeing as he's not in already.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by willshad View Post
                        Kind of seems like Cal Ripken, with speed. Excellent SS defense, around a 110 OPS+, with a couple of outlier great seasons. His batting average probably seemed underwhelming, or even very weak at the time, when guys like Delahanty, Burkett, Hamilton,Wagner, and Cobb were batting around .400 every year.
                        Yeah. It'd be interesting to see how many HR he would have had in the 1980s-1990s. I still think Cal has the power advantage, though Bill has the edge in OBP. Cal has about 15 points of offensive WAR on Bill, and I have more confidence in that stat over defensive WAR (which is moot anyway because both have high defensive ratings across the board). But it's a good comparison.
                        http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploa...-showalter.gif

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                        • #13
                          Ripken also played about 600 more games.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cowtipper View Post
                            Clearly not so easy seeing as he's not in already.
                            Should be easy HOFer. I don't think they quite understood positional scarcity at the time, and had even worse ways of quantifying defense at the time. The fact that Vizquel will likely make he HOF shows that Dahlen would breeze in today's HOF.
                            1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                            1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                            1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                            The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                            The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Unfortunately for Dahlen, the last half of his offensive career clouds what his whole career looks like to some (His defense seems to remain intact throughout most of his career, but people don't easily see that).

                              Dahlen in his 20s :
                              Code:
                                                                                                                                       
                              Rk        Player WAR/pos Rbat Rfield OPS+    G From   To   Age    H  2B  3B HR RBI  BB  SB   BA  OBP  SLG
                              1    Bill Dahlen    36.9  143     54  123 1108 1891 1899 21-29 1291 225 113 61 637 539 315 .298 .386 .444
                              Dahlen age 30+ :
                              Code:
                                                                                                                                      
                              Rk        Player WAR/pos Rbat Rfield OPS+    G From   To   Age    H  2B 3B HR RBI  BB  SB   BA  OBP  SLG
                              4    Bill Dahlen    34.0   -5     85   96 1336 1900 1911 30-41 1170 188 50 23 597 525 233 .249 .332 .325
                              Last edited by dgarza; 11-06-2012, 08:51 AM.

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