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Bad Bill Dahlen, how did the Hall miss this guy?

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  • Bad Bill Dahlen, how did the Hall miss this guy?

    Had great career, played in Nyc, lasted til 1907, did the usual things you'd expect a Hof of the era to do.....so what's the deal? Never understood this one.

  • #2
    Easy to miss. No black ink other than a stat (RBI) that wasn't official when he played. Career batting average only .272, hit .300 only three times in an era when batting average was highly valued. Only one World Series appearance, and he went 0-for-15. The early HOF voters had too many players with gaudy career totals or single-season records to spend any time looking at Dahlen. As time went on, he was forgotten and then inelgible under the voting rules.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Macker View Post
      Career batting average only .272, hit .300 only three times in an era when batting average was highly valued.
      I think this is it.

      Dahlen is long overdue, but if you figure how long it took them to elect early Shortstops with higher and flashier Batting Averages (Jackson, .291, 1982; Vaughan, .318, 1985; Davis, .295, 1998!), you can kind of see how a .272 batter could get lost in the numbers.
      Last edited by dgarza; 11-02-2012, 06:07 PM.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by dgarza View Post
        I think this is it.
        I Second This.
        “There can be no higher law in journalism than to tell the truth and to shame the devil.” Walter Lippmann

        "Fill in any figure you want for that boy (Mantle). Whatever the figure, it's a deal." - Branch Rickey

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        • #5
          The good news is that there's a chance to rectify the oversight this coming VC vote.

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          • #6
            Bad Bill is deserving, lets hope they do the right thing here this time.

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            • #7
              I looked him up. I'm not seeing it. Please give me his case?
              This week's Giant

              #5 in games played as a Giant with 1721 , Bill Terry

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              • #8
                He's got a nice career war. I think it's around 70-75.
                "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

                "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by JR Hart View Post
                  I looked him up. I'm not seeing it. Please give me his case?
                  --Alot of his value comes from his defense. He was supposedly terrific with the glove. I'm not as bullish on Dahlen as alot of people, but if the reports of his defense are correct he is a solid Hall of Famer.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by leecemark View Post
                    --Alot of his value comes from his defense. He was supposedly terrific with the glove. I'm not as bullish on Dahlen as alot of people, but if the reports of his defense are correct he is a solid Hall of Famer.
                    If his glove was great, then I see it. He played a long time and has solid, but unremarkable batting stats.
                    This week's Giant

                    #5 in games played as a Giant with 1721 , Bill Terry

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                    • #11
                      He stole over 500 bases, I would say that also adds alot to his resume.
                      "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

                      "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

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                      • #12
                        Longevtiy + amazing glove + 500 SBs + SS + well-above average offense for a SS = easy HOFer.
                        1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

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                        The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                        The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

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                        • #13
                          Kind of seems like Cal Ripken, with speed. Excellent SS defense, around a 110 OPS+, with a couple of outlier great seasons. His batting average probably seemed underwhelming, or even very weak at the time, when guys like Delahanty, Burkett, Hamilton,Wagner, and Cobb were batting around .400 every year.
                          Last edited by willshad; 11-05-2012, 09:53 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Matthew C. View Post
                            Longevtiy + amazing glove + 500 SBs + SS + well-above average offense for a SS = easy HOFer.
                            Clearly not so easy seeing as he's not in already.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by willshad View Post
                              Kind of seems like Cal Ripken, with speed. Excellent SS defense, around a 110 OPS+, with a couple of outlier great seasons. His batting average probably seemed underwhelming, or even very weak at the time, when guys like Delahanty, Burkett, Hamilton,Wagner, and Cobb were batting around .400 every year.
                              Yeah. It'd be interesting to see how many HR he would have had in the 1980s-1990s. I still think Cal has the power advantage, though Bill has the edge in OBP. Cal has about 15 points of offensive WAR on Bill, and I have more confidence in that stat over defensive WAR (which is moot anyway because both have high defensive ratings across the board). But it's a good comparison.
                              http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploa...-showalter.gif

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