Announcement

Collapse

Updated Baseball Fever Policy

Baseball Fever Policy

I. Purpose of this announcement:

This announcement describes the policies pertaining to the operation of Baseball Fever.

Baseball Fever is a moderated baseball message board which encourages and facilitates research and information exchange among fans of our national pastime. The intent of the Baseball Fever Policy is to ensure that Baseball Fever remains an extremely high quality, extremely low "noise" environment.

Baseball Fever is administrated by three principal administrators:
webmaster - Baseball Fever Owner
The Commissioner - Baseball Fever Administrator
Macker - Baseball Fever Administrator

And a group of forum specific super moderators. The role of the moderator is to keep Baseball Fever smoothly and to screen posts for compliance with our policy. The moderators are ALL volunteer positions, so please be patient and understanding of any delays you might experience in correspondence.

II. Comments about our policy:

Any suggestions on this policy may be made directly to the webmaster.

III. Acknowledgments:

This document was based on a similar policy used by SABR.

IV. Requirements for participation on Baseball Fever:

Participation on Baseball Fever is available to all baseball fans with a valid email address, as verified by the forum's automated system, which then in turn creates a single validated account. Multiple accounts by a single user are prohibited.

By registering, you agree to adhere to the policies outlined in this document and to conduct yourself accordingly. Abuse of the forum, by repeated failure to abide by these policies, will result in your access being blocked to the forum entirely.

V. Baseball Fever Netiquette:

Participants at Baseball Fever are required to adhere to these principles, which are outlined in this section.
a. All posts to Baseball Fever should be written in clear, concise English, with proper grammar and accurate spelling. The use of abbreviations should be kept to a minimum; when abbreviation is necessary, they should be either well-known (such as etc.), or explained on their first use in your post.

b. Conciseness is a key attribute of a good post.

c. Quote only the portion of a post to which you are responding.

d. Standard capitalization and punctuation make a large difference in the readability of a post. TYPING IN ALL CAPITALS is considered to be "shouting"; it is a good practice to limit use of all capitals to words which you wish to emphasize.

e. It is our policy NOT to transmit any defamatory or illegal materials.

f. Personal attacks of any type against Baseball Fever readers will not be tolerated. In these instances the post will be copied by a moderator and/or administrator, deleted from the site, then sent to the member who made the personal attack via a Private Message (PM) along with a single warning. Members who choose to not listen and continue personal attacks will be banned from the site.

g. It is important to remember that many contextual clues available in face-to-face discussion, such as tone of voice and facial expression, are lost in the electronic forum. As a poster, try to be alert for phrasing that might be misinterpreted by your audience to be offensive; as a reader, remember to give the benefit of the doubt and not to take umbrage too easily. There are many instances in which a particular choice of words or phrasing can come across as being a personal attack where none was intended.

h. The netiquette described above (a-g) often uses the term "posts", but applies equally to Private Messages.

VI. Baseball Fever User Signature Policy

A signature is a piece of text that some members may care to have inserted at the end of ALL of their posts, a little like the closing of a letter. You can set and / or change your signature by editing your profile in the UserCP. Since it is visible on ALL your posts, the following policy must be adhered to:

Signature Composition
Font size limit: No larger than size 2 (This policy is a size 2)
Style: Bold and italics are permissible
Character limit: No more than 500 total characters
Lines: No more than 4 lines
Colors: Most colors are permissible, but those which are hard to discern against the gray background (yellow, white, pale gray) should be avoided
Images/Graphics: Allowed, but nothing larger than 20k and Content rules must be followed

Signature Content
No advertising is permitted
Nothing political or religious
Nothing obscene, vulgar, defamatory or derogatory
Links to personal blogs/websites are permissible - with the webmaster's written consent
A Link to your Baseball Fever Blog does not require written consent and is recommended
Quotes must be attributed. Non-baseball quotes are permissible as long as they are not religious or political

Please adhere to these rules when you create your signature. Failure to do so will result in a request to comply by a moderator. If you do not comply within a reasonable amount of time, the signature will be removed and / or edited by an Administrator. Baseball Fever reserves the right to edit and / or remove any or all of your signature line at any time without contacting the account holder.

VII. Appropriate and inappropriate topics for Baseball Fever:

Most concisely, the test for whether a post is appropriate for Baseball Fever is: "Does this message discuss our national pastime in an interesting manner?" This post can be direct or indirect: posing a question, asking for assistance, providing raw data or citations, or discussing and constructively critiquing existing posts. In general, a broad interpretation of "baseball related" is used.

Baseball Fever is not a promotional environment. Advertising of products, web sites, etc., whether for profit or not-for-profit, is not permitted. At the webmaster's discretion, brief one-time announcements for products or services of legitimate baseball interest and usefulness may be allowed. If advertising is posted to the site it will be copied by a moderator and/or administrator, deleted from the site, then sent to the member who made the post via a Private Message (PM) along with a single warning. Members who choose to not listen and continue advertising will be banned from the site. If the advertising is spam-related, pornography-based, or a "visit-my-site" type post / private message, no warning at all will be provided, and the member will be banned immediately without a warning.

It is considered appropriate to post a URL to a page which specifically and directly answers a question posted on the list (for example, it would be permissible to post a link to a page containing home-road splits, even on a site which has advertising or other commercial content; however, it would not be appropriate to post the URL of the main page of the site). The site reserves the right to limit the frequency of such announcements by any individual or group.

In keeping with our test for a proper topic, posting to Baseball Fever should be treated as if you truly do care. This includes posting information that is, to the best of your knowledge, complete and accurate at the time you post. Any errors or ambiguities you catch later should be acknowledged and corrected in the thread, since Baseball Fever is sometimes considered to be a valuable reference for research information.

VIII. Role of the moderator:

When a post is submitted to Baseball Fever, it is forwarded by the server automatically and seen immediately. The moderator may:
a. Leave the thread exactly like it was submitted. This is the case 95% of the time.

b. Immediately delete the thread as inappropriate for Baseball Fever. Examples include advertising, personal attacks, or spam. This is the case 1% of the time.

c. Move the thread. If a member makes a post about the Marlins in the Yankees forum it will be moved to the appropriate forum. This is the case 3% of the time.

d. Edit the message due to an inappropriate item. This is the case 1% of the time. There have been new users who will make a wonderful post, then add to their signature line (where your name / handle appears) a tagline that is a pure advertisement. This tagline will be removed, a note will be left in the message so he/she is aware of the edit, and personal contact will be made to the poster telling them what has been edited and what actions need to be taken to prevent further edits.

The moderators perform no checks on posts to verify factual or logical accuracy. While he/she may point out gross errors in factual data in replies to the thread, the moderator does not act as an "accuracy" editor. Also moderation is not a vehicle for censorship of individuals and/or opinions, and the moderator's decisions should not be taken personally.

IX. Legal aspects of participation in Baseball Fever:

By submitting a post to Baseball Fever, you grant Baseball Fever permission to distribute your message to the forum. Other rights pertaining to the post remain with the ORIGINAL author, and you may not redistribute or retransmit any posts by any others, in whole or in part, without the express consent of the original author.

The messages appearing on Baseball Fever contain the opinions and views of their respective authors and are not necessarily those of Baseball Fever, or of the Baseball Almanac family of sites.

Sincerely,

Sean Holtz, Webmaster of Baseball Almanac & Baseball Fever
www.baseball-almanac.com | www.baseball-fever.com
"Baseball Almanac: Sharing Baseball. Sharing History."
See more
See less

How many players received 45% of the Writers' vote but never got in?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • How many players received 45% of the Writers' vote but never got in?

    How many players have received 45% (or more) of the BBWAA vote for the Hall in any one year without ever making it in? (Either by a later vote of the Writers or via the Veteran's Committee.)

    (This is not intended as a trivia question, I'm really wondering how often this has happened.)
    Last edited by westsidegrounds; 11-08-2012, 05:08 PM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by westsidegrounds View Post
    How many players have received 45% (or more) of the BBWAA vote for the Hall in any one year without ever making it in? (Either by a later vote of the Writers or via the Veteran's Committee.)

    (This is not intended as a trivia question, I'm really wondering how often this has happened.)
    Off the top of my head, Gil Hodges. I think he got as high as 62% or so, IIRC. [Edit: He peaked at 63.4%; he got better than 45% thirteen out of fifteen years on the ballot]

    There's also guys like Jack Morris and Lee Smith, who are still on the ballot.
    Last edited by Cougar; 11-08-2012, 05:34 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      http://www.baseball-reference.com/aw...-history.shtml

      This will give you the top 8 for each year, usually digging down below 45%. Click on the year link for the full ballot when the top 8 is insufficient.
      Indeed the first step toward finding out is to acknowledge you do not satisfactorily know already; so that no blight can so surely arrest all intellectual growth as the blight of cocksureness.--CS Peirce

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Jackaroo Dave View Post
        http://www.baseball-reference.com/aw...-history.shtml

        This will give you the top 8 for each year, usually digging down below 45%. Click on the year link for the full ballot when the top 8 is insufficient.
        Man, I was looking for something like that...
        46 wins to match last year's total

        Comment


        • #5
          There are two that have exhausted their BBWAA eligibility that I see from that source: Hodges and Oliva. There are four I see who are still on the BBWAA ballot: Raines, Lee Smith, Bagwell and Jack Morris.
          Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
          Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
          A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

          Comment


          • #6
            Here's a question...

            Miller Huggins received over 45% a few times (1942 & 1945). But was he being considered for total contributions here? Or just as a player at time?

            If he was just being voted on as a player only (which I kind of doubt), then he would be an example of a player who received 45% but never never got in as a player.

            Comment


            • #7
              Okay, looks like I've found the answer, in a Hardball Times article by Don Malcolm dated 01/07/2009: Hall of Fame, Hall of Mirrors. Players not enshrined despite at least once receiving 45% or more of the BBWAA vote are Hodges (max 63%), Oliva (max 47%), and Lee Smith (max 45%).
              Last edited by westsidegrounds; 11-10-2012, 08:10 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by westsidegrounds View Post
                Okay, looks like I've found the answer, in a Hardball Times article by Don Malcolm dated 01/07/2009: Hall of Fame, Hall of Mirrors. Players not enshrined despite at least once receiving 45% or more of the BBWAA vote are Hodges (max 63%), Oliva (max 47%), and Lee Smith (max 45%).
                Since '09, Raines (49), Bagwell (56) and Morris (67) (Smith (51)). I suppose some of these will make it eventually, but Smith might be one of them.
                Indeed the first step toward finding out is to acknowledge you do not satisfactorily know already; so that no blight can so surely arrest all intellectual growth as the blight of cocksureness.--CS Peirce

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jackaroo Dave View Post
                  Since '09, Raines (49), Bagwell (56) and Morris (67) (Smith (51)). I suppose some of these will make it eventually, but Smith might be one of them.
                  Right.

                  Basically, every player - except Tony Oliva - who has received 45% or more of the Writers' vote is either (1) in already or (2) still under active consideration. (Hodges is due to be considered again by the Golden Era VC in 2014.)
                  Last edited by westsidegrounds; 11-12-2012, 02:31 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Does this means that Oliva deserves to be in the HOF? He was equal to Clemente in hitting stats, although with a shorter career. And he didn't have the defense to boot. I think his case is more of a feel good story about the 60's Twins.
                    "I am not too serious about anything. I believe you have to enjoy yourself to get the most out of your ability."-
                    George Brett

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by yankillaz View Post
                      Does this means that Oliva deserves to be in the HOF? He was equal to Clemente in hitting stats, although with a shorter career. And he didn't have the defense to boot. I think his case is more of a feel good story about the 60's Twins.
                      His case is a feel terrible story. I was an old school fan at the time, and when Tony came along, I thought, "Here's a guy who not only does it right, but does it so well that others are going to start doing it the same way." I was young and naive, but when he tore up his knee it broke my heart.
                      Indeed the first step toward finding out is to acknowledge you do not satisfactorily know already; so that no blight can so surely arrest all intellectual growth as the blight of cocksureness.--CS Peirce

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Tony Oliva should be in the HOF and it's ridiculous that he isn't. He had a devastating knee injury in 1972, and played 4 more seasons that soured his career stats. Before the injury, he was simply sensational.

                        From 1964-71 he was .313/.361/.507 OPS+ 141 8 straight all-star games , 2X MVP runnerup, 2 more top 6 finishes, ROY (should have been 64 MVP), GG, 3X batting leader, 5X hits leader, 4X doubles leader, 71 slugging leader, and 64 TB leader.

                        I grew up watching this guy on TV, he just ripped.
                        This week's Giant

                        #5 in games played as a Giant with 1721 , Bill Terry

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by JR Hart View Post
                          Tony Oliva should be in the HOF and it's ridiculous that he isn't. He had a devastating knee injury in 1972, and played 4 more seasons that soured his career stats. Before the injury, he was simply sensational.

                          From 1964-71 he was .313/.361/.507 OPS+ 141 8 straight all-star games , 2X MVP runnerup, 2 more top 6 finishes, ROY (should have been 64 MVP), GG, 3X batting leader, 5X hits leader, 4X doubles leader, 71 slugging leader, and 64 TB leader.

                          I grew up watching this guy on TV, he just ripped.
                          The Hall of Fame is not kind to corner outfielders with short careers, probably because there are so many already in with long careers. If Tony got in, he'd be comparable to Chick Hafey and Ross Youngs.

                          If he got in, well, it would be about time that he caught a break. He didn't get going until he was 25 and turned into Sean Casey at 32, and it seemed like all the way along he was met with frustrations and disappointment, which he bore stoically. (See his SABR biography.) But for those eight years he was something.
                          Indeed the first step toward finding out is to acknowledge you do not satisfactorily know already; so that no blight can so surely arrest all intellectual growth as the blight of cocksureness.--CS Peirce

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Jackaroo Dave View Post
                            The Hall of Fame is not kind to corner outfielders with short careers, probably because there are so many already in with long careers. If Tony got in, he'd be comparable to Chick Hafey and Ross Youngs.

                            If he got in, well, it would be about time that he caught a break. He didn't get going until he was 25 and turned into Sean Casey at 32, and it seemed like all the way along he was met with frustrations and disappointment, which he bore stoically. (See his SABR biography.) But for those eight years he was something.
                            Every case should be looked at individually. Oliva belongs
                            This week's Giant

                            #5 in games played as a Giant with 1721 , Bill Terry

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by JR Hart View Post
                              Every case should be looked at individually.
                              Unfortunately, many actual HOF voters share this mindset of ignoring precedent.
                              Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

                              Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X