Announcement

**jalbright** · 11-20-2012, 10:26 AM

Two other points of reference I think would be interesting and/or informative: WAR above 51 or 52 for a career, and your own Single Ballot HOF.

I am gratified to see that two projects I have spent a lot of time leading, the BBF HOF and BOB both did well in terms of having few outliers either in terms of guys supported by few or no other Halls other than either or both of those two; or guys left out by few or no other Halls other than either or both of those two. It also seems that Cooperstown itself has the most outliers in both directions, which doesn't shock me.

**Freakshow** · 11-20-2012, 12:54 PM

Players in 6 halls but not in HOF:

Dick Allen
Ken Boyer
Bob Caruthers
Will Clark
Bill Dahlen
Wes Ferrell
Jack Glasscock
Bobby Grich
Keith Hernandez
Sherry Magee
Tim Raines
Joe Torre
Alan Trammell
Lou Whitaker

That's a mighty fine list of the Coop's worst omissions.

**Nerdlinger** · 11-20-2012, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by jalbright View Post

Two other points of reference I think would be interesting and/or informative: WAR above 51 or 52 for a career, and your own Single Ballot HOF.

I am gratified to see that two projects I have spent a lot of time leading, the BBF HOF and BOB both did well in terms of having few outliers either in terms of guys supported by few or no other Halls other than either or both of those two; or guys left out by few or no other Halls other than either or both of those two. It also seems that Cooperstown itself has the most outliers in both directions, which doesn't shock me.

I can add in a WAR-based pseudo-Hall like mine, though between them, the Halls I've listed cover everyone with at least 50 WAR except for the following six players:

Code:

Player              Pos  From-To    tWAA   tWAR Rating 
Frank Tanana        SP  1973-1993   17.7   52.7   95
Jack Powell         SP  1897-1912   14.4   52.2   90
George Uhle         SP  1919-1936   24.0   51.0   87
Jose Cruz           LF  1970-1988   24.7   50.8   96
Jim Whitney         SP  1881-1890   20.9   50.3   90
Vada Pinson         CF  1958-1975   16.5   50.2   90

I would have included the Single Ballot Hall, but its content changes more frequently than the others, and my personal Hall (the "Hall of WAA") is my ballot for the project, so there'd be overlap. Maybe I could show what Single Ballot Hall would look like without my ballot.

I think Best of Baseball hasn't had many notable omissions or unusual inclusions in large part because it's the smallest Hall. It's pretty much just the players most highly supported by the consensus who seem to have made it in.

Originally posted by Freakshow View Post

Players in 6 halls but not in HOF:

Dick Allen
Ken Boyer
Bob Caruthers
Will Clark
Bill Dahlen
Wes Ferrell
Jack Glasscock
Bobby Grich
Keith Hernandez
Sherry Magee
Tim Raines
Joe Torre
Alan Trammell
Lou Whitaker

That's a mighty fine list of the Coop's worst omissions.

I would agree. Of those, Torre probably has the best shot of getting in, but that's only as a manager.

**Nerdlinger** · 11-20-2012, 01:47 PM

Heh. I just checked and found out that the current content of the Single Ballot HOF would not change if my ballot were removed. Somehow, I'm disappointed.

**Nerdlinger** · 11-20-2012, 02:36 PM

I revised the lists to include the current Single Ballot HOF and all players with at least 50 tWAR. Cochrane, Doby, Ewing, Koufax, and Wilhelm dropped out of the top tier due to their having fewer than 50 tWAR.

~~~~~~

tWAA = total wins above average (offensive + defensive + pitching WAA)
tWAR = total wins above replacement (offensive + defensive + pitching WAR)
Rating = Adam Darowski's "Hall Rating"
HOF = the actual Hall of Fame (207 players)
HOM = Hall of Merit (209 players)
BBF = BBF Hall of Fame (221 players)
PRG = BBF Progressive HOF (242 players)
BOB = Best of Baseball Hall (194 players)
SBH = Single Ballot BBF HOF (167 players) [as of 11/20/12]
HOS = Adam Darowski's Hall of Stats (206 players)
WAR = "Hall of WAR" (212 players) [50 or more tWAR]
WAA = Hall of WAA (215 players)

~~~~~~

9 Halls (119 players)

Code:

Player              Pos  From-To    tWAA   tWAR Rating HOF  HOM  BBF  PRG  BOB  SBH  HOS  WAR  WAA
Hank Aaron          RF  1954-1976   92.6  137.2  296    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Pete Alexander      SP  1911-1930   76.9  115.8  250    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Cap Anson           1B  1876-1897   49.0   80.6  216    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Luke Appling        SS  1930-1950   41.5   69.8  144    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Richie Ashburn      CF  1948-1962   28.2   60.3  117    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Home Run Baker      3B  1908-1922   37.0   59.6  122    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Ernie Banks         1B  1953-1971   28.4   62.6  125    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Johnny Bench        C   1967-1983   46.7   72.1  180    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Yogi Berra          C   1946-1965   33.8   56.1  134    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Bert Blyleven       SP  1970-1992   48.3   89.4  185    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Wade Boggs          3B  1982-1999   57.5   88.4  185    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Lou Boudreau        SS  1938-1952   42.2   59.2  130    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
George Brett        3B  1973-1993   50.7   84.1  178    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Dan Brouthers       1B  1879-1904   53.1   75.8  179    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Mordecai Brown      SP  1903-1916   30.5   53.0  112    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Jim Bunning         SP  1955-1971   25.9   55.9  118    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Jesse Burkett       LF  1890-1905   26.7   57.5  113    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Rod Carew           1B  1967-1985   46.3   76.7  155    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Steve Carlton       SP  1965-1988   43.4   85.0  160    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Gary Carter         C   1974-1992   40.1   66.4  165    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Fred Clarke         LF  1894-1915   35.0   64.3  127    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
John Clarkson       SP  1882-1894   41.5   79.9  162    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Roberto Clemente    RF  1955-1972   56.8   89.9  188    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Ty Cobb             CF  1905-1928  101.7  144.8  317    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Eddie Collins       2B  1906-1930   78.7  118.4  252    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Roger Connor        1B  1880-1897   53.9   80.8  183    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Stan Coveleski      SP  1912-1928   28.7   55.6  122    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Sam Crawford        RF  1899-1917   34.7   69.9  131    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Joe Cronin          SS  1926-1945   35.9   62.2  124    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
George Davis        SS  1890-1909   47.9   79.9  165    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Andre Dawson        RF  1976-1996   29.3   60.6  120    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Ed Delahanty        LF  1888-1903   41.6   66.5  148    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Bill Dickey         C   1928-1946   31.5   52.5  126    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Joe DiMaggio        CF  1936-1951   54.6   75.2  167    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Don Drysdale        SP  1956-1969   33.0   63.3  113    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Dennis Eckersley    RP  1975-1998   30.7   58.5  121    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Bob Feller          SP  1936-1956   30.0   58.4  126    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Carlton Fisk        C   1969-1993   35.3   63.8  155    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Elmer Flick         RF  1898-1910   29.6   50.3  102    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Whitey Ford         SP  1950-1967   30.8   54.1  104    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Jimmie Foxx         1B  1925-1945   64.0   93.5  205    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Frankie Frisch      2B  1919-1937   39.1   67.9  137    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Charlie Gehringer   2B  1924-1942   45.4   76.5  157    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Lou Gehrig          1B  1923-1939   78.4  108.5  240    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Bob Gibson          SP  1959-1975   52.9   85.4  169    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Joe Gordon          2B  1938-1950   37.2   53.9  116    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Goose Goslin        LF  1921-1938   30.5   61.1  114    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Hank Greenberg      1B  1930-1947   37.0   55.0  117    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Lefty Grove         SP  1925-1941   63.6   97.4  229    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Tony Gwynn          RF  1982-2001   36.7   65.3  125    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Billy Hamilton      CF  1888-1901   39.2   61.0  131    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Gabby Hartnett      C   1922-1941   29.6   50.8  120    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Harry Heilmann      RF  1914-1932   38.7   67.2  135    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Rickey Henderson    LF  1979-2003   68.9  106.5  227    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Rogers Hornsby      2B  1915-1937   97.3  124.4  290    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Carl Hubbell        SP  1928-1943   36.4   65.1  135    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Reggie Jackson      RF  1967-1987   35.4   68.3  142    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Fergie Jenkins      SP  1965-1983   42.1   79.5  154    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Walter Johnson      SP  1907-1927  105.7  157.7  334    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Al Kaline           RF  1953-1974   55.4   87.5  184    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Tim Keefe           SP  1880-1893   44.3   82.3  173    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Harmon Killebrew    1B  1954-1975   28.1   55.8  110    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Nap Lajoie          2B  1896-1916   67.7  102.3  225    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Barry Larkin        SS  1986-2004   42.5   66.9  142    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Ted Lyons           SP  1923-1946   30.3   65.0  122    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Mickey Mantle       CF  1951-1968   79.0  105.7  237    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Juan Marichal       SP  1960-1975   29.4   59.1  114    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Christy Mathewson   SP  1900-1916   60.6   97.3  208    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Eddie Mathews       3B  1952-1968   58.6   91.9  190    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Willie Mays         CF  1951-1973  110.2  150.7  335    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Willie McCovey      1B  1959-1980   30.4   60.7  125    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Joe McGinnity       SP  1899-1908   26.2   54.4  112    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Joe Medwick         LF  1932-1948   28.1   52.5  103    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Johnny Mize         1B  1936-1953   44.8   67.8  144    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Paul Molitor        DH  1978-1998   37.7   72.5  140    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Joe Morgan          2B  1963-1984   63.4   97.0  202    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Eddie Murray        1B  1977-1997   27.4   63.4  121    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Stan Musial         1B  1941-1963   81.6  123.3  263    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Hal Newhouser       SP  1939-1955   38.4   58.3  126    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Kid Nichols         SP  1890-1906   69.1  111.6  239    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Phil Niekro         SP  1964-1987   47.2   90.6  184    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Mel Ott             RF  1926-1947   70.6  104.1  226    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Jim Palmer          SP  1965-1984   31.7   64.3  124    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Gaylord Perry       SP  1962-1983   39.7   84.5  167    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Eddie Plank         SP  1901-1917   46.9   85.3  168    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Old Hoss Radbourn   SP  1880-1891   33.0   70.3  139    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Pee Wee Reese       SS  1940-1958   31.7   63.1  119    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Cal Ripken          SS  1981-2001   53.5   90.6  185    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Robin Roberts       SP  1948-1966   39.7   80.2  152    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Brooks Robinson     3B  1955-1977   39.7   73.0  145    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Frank Robinson      RF  1956-1976   64.7  101.2  208    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Jackie Robinson     2B  1947-1956   39.4   58.8  125    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Amos Rusie          SP  1889-1901   33.5   65.7  132    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Babe Ruth           RF  1914-1935  135.3  178.2  401    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Nolan Ryan          SP  1966-1993   30.4   75.4  140    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Ryne Sandberg       2B  1981-1997   38.4   64.8  129    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Ron Santo           3B  1960-1974   36.8   66.7  137    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Mike Schmidt        3B  1972-1989   73.8  103.1  226    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Tom Seaver          SP  1967-1986   67.2  105.3  216    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Al Simmons          LF  1924-1944   34.7   64.0  129    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Ozzie Smith         SS  1978-1996   42.0   72.9  146    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Duke Snider         CF  1947-1964   35.4   62.8  129    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Warren Spahn        SP  1942-1965   46.5   93.4  173    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Tris Speaker        CF  1907-1928   88.3  127.8  278    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Willie Stargell     LF  1962-1982   26.6   54.1  103    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Bill Terry          1B  1923-1936   31.8   52.1  107    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Dazzy Vance         SP  1915-1935   34.9   58.0  127    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Arky Vaughan        SS  1932-1948   47.2   70.4  150    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Rube Waddell        SP  1897-1910   29.8   55.3  116    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Honus Wagner        SS  1897-1917   91.6  126.1  283    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Bobby Wallace       SS  1894-1918   37.3   71.7  143    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Ed Walsh            SP  1904-1917   35.6   61.8  130    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Paul Waner          RF  1926-1945   38.6   69.8  138    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Zack Wheat          LF  1909-1927   28.5   56.9  107    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Billy Williams      LF  1959-1976   27.1   60.0  110    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Ted Williams        LF  1939-1960   94.3  119.8  279    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Carl Yastrzemski    LF  1961-1983   50.1   90.0  181    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Cy Young            SP  1890-1911   97.9  161.0  342    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Robin Yount         SS  1974-1993   37.4   72.4  141    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Player              Pos  From-To    tWAA   tWAR Rating HOF  HOM  BBF  PRG  BOB  SBH  HOS  WAR  WAA

8 Halls (22 players)

Code:

Player              Pos  From-To    tWAA   tWAR Rating HOF  HOM  BBF  PRG  BOB  SBH  HOS  WAR  WAA
Pud Galvin          SP  1879-1892   21.0   68.7  137    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x     
George Sisler       1B  1915-1930   24.6   53.8  111    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x     
Don Sutton          SP  1966-1988   19.0   61.6  107    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x     
Monte Ward          SS  1878-1894   18.1   60.8  103    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x     
Dave Winfield       RF  1973-1995   24.1   59.4  111    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x     
Early Wynn          SP  1939-1963   24.0   56.2  103    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x     
Mickey Cochrane     C   1925-1937   29.5   48.9  118    x    x    x    x    x    x    x         x
Larry Doby          CF  1947-1959   30.5   47.2  101    x    x    x    x    x    x    x         x
Buck Ewing          C   1880-1897   27.7   45.5  115    x    x    x    x    x    x    x         x
Sandy Koufax        SP  1955-1966   25.4   46.0  101    x    x    x    x    x    x    x         x
Hoyt Wilhelm        RP  1952-1972   26.1   44.5  106    x    x    x    x    x    x    x         x
Jimmy Collins       3B  1895-1908   26.3   50.1   99    x    x    x    x    x    x         x    x
Billy Herman        2B  1931-1947   26.6   52.5   98    x    x    x    x    x    x         x    x
Red Ruffing         SP  1924-1947   27.3   63.1   99    x    x    x    x    x    x         x    x
Roberto Alomar      2B  1988-2004   32.6   63.0  124    x    x    x    x         x    x    x    x
Dick Allen          1B  1963-1977   32.9   55.8  114         x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Bob Caruthers       SP  1884-1893   38.0   58.7  118         x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Bill Dahlen         SS  1891-1911   39.4   70.9  143         x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Sherry Magee        LF  1904-1919   30.9   55.7  109         x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Tim Raines          LF  1979-2002   35.4   66.0  127         x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Alan Trammell       SS  1977-1996   40.4   67.1  141         x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Lou Whitaker        2B  1977-1995   42.8   71.2  142         x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Player              Pos  From-To    tWAA   tWAR Rating HOF  HOM  BBF  PRG  BOB  SBH  HOS  WAR  WAA

7 Halls (22 players)

Code:

Player              Pos  From-To    tWAA   tWAR Rating HOF  HOM  BBF  PRG  BOB  SBH  HOS  WAR  WAA
King Kelly          C   1878-1893   21.4   41.3  100    x    x    x    x    x    x    x          
Jim O'Rourke        LF  1876-1904   17.5   42.1  108    x    x    x    x    x    x    x          
Willie Keeler       RF  1892-1910   20.5   50.6   97    x    x    x    x    x    x         x     
Enos Slaughter      RF  1938-1959   22.1   51.2   92    x    x    x    x    x    x         x     
Bobby Doerr         2B  1937-1951   27.0   47.4   96    x    x    x    x    x    x              x
Ralph Kiner         LF  1946-1955   25.7   46.3   91    x    x    x    x    x    x              x
Red Faber           SP  1914-1933   22.6   58.3  115    x    x    x    x    x         x    x     
Jake Beckley        1B  1888-1907   25.9   56.9  107    x    x    x    x              x    x    x
Ken Boyer           3B  1955-1969   31.5   58.7  115         x    x    x    x         x    x    x
Will Clark          1B  1986-2000   29.1   52.9  101         x    x    x    x         x    x    x
Wes Ferrell         SP  1927-1941   34.4   57.1  108         x    x    x    x         x    x    x
Jack Glasscock      SS  1879-1895   35.4   58.6  133         x    x    x    x         x    x    x
Bobby Grich         2B  1970-1986   43.6   67.3  139         x    x    x    x         x    x    x
Keith Hernandez     1B  1974-1990   31.9   57.1  114         x    x    x    x         x    x    x
Joe Torre           C   1960-1977   26.8   54.2  111         x    x    x    x         x    x    x
Jeff Bagwell        1B  1991-2005   52.0   76.8  162         x    x    x         x    x    x    x
Edgar Martinez      DH  1987-2004   38.6   64.5  132         x    x    x         x    x    x    x
Pete Rose           1B  1963-1986   29.2   76.9  149         x    x         x    x    x    x    x
Dwight Evans        RF  1972-1991   33.0   63.0  120         x         x    x    x    x    x    x
Craig Biggio        2B  1988-2007   29.1   62.2  125              x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Barry Bonds         LF  1986-2007  123.9  157.9  362              x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Curt Schilling      SP  1988-2007   50.9   76.0  171              x    x    x    x    x    x    x
Player              Pos  From-To    tWAA   tWAR Rating HOF  HOM  BBF  PRG  BOB  SBH  HOS  WAR  WAA

6 Halls (18 players)

Code:

Player              Pos  From-To    tWAA   tWAR Rating HOF  HOM  BBF  PRG  BOB  SBH  HOS  WAR  WAA
Roy Campanella      C   1948-1957   15.6   31.6   76    x    x    x    x    x    x               
Rich Gossage        RP  1972-1994   23.7   39.5   88    x    x    x    x    x    x               
Hughie Jennings     SS  1891-1918   23.2   39.8   86    x    x    x    x    x    x               
Joe Kelley          LF  1891-1908   22.9   47.5   97    x    x    x    x    x    x               
Bob Lemon           SP  1941-1958   25.3   46.0   75    x    x    x    x    x    x               
Bid McPhee          2B  1882-1899   24.8   48.4   95    x    x    x    x    x    x               
Max Carey           CF  1910-1929   21.0   51.4   94    x    x    x    x    x              x     
Dizzy Dean          SP  1930-1947   28.0   43.6   93    x         x    x    x    x              x
Vic Willis          SP  1898-1910   27.3   59.1  122    x         x    x              x    x    x
Ted Simmons         C   1968-1988   19.0   46.5  111         x    x    x    x    x    x          
Minnie Minoso       LF  1949-1980   26.9   47.6   99         x    x    x    x    x              x
Graig Nettles       3B  1967-1988   32.8   63.2  123         x    x    x              x    x    x
Joe Jackson         LF  1908-1920   40.2   59.5  129         x    x         x         x    x    x
Larry Walker        RF  1989-2005   48.3   69.6  150         x    x              x    x    x    x
Reggie Smith        RF  1966-1982   37.5   61.0  123         x         x    x         x    x    x
Jim Wynn            CF  1963-1977   28.8   53.3  109         x         x    x         x    x    x
Roger Clemens       SP  1984-2007   91.8  133.4  291              x    x         x    x    x    x
Mike Piazza         C   1992-2007   35.9   56.4  144              x    x         x    x    x    x
Player              Pos  From-To    tWAA   tWAR Rating HOF  HOM  BBF  PRG  BOB  SBH  HOS  WAR  WAA

5 Halls (20 players)

Code:

Player              Pos  From-To    tWAA   tWAR Rating HOF  HOM  BBF  PRG  BOB  SBH  HOS  WAR  WAA
Earl Averill        CF  1929-1941   22.8   45.1   87    x    x    x    x    x                    
Roger Bresnahan     C   1897-1915   23.4   39.9   92    x    x    x    x    x                    
Nellie Fox          2B  1947-1965   18.5   46.4   88    x    x    x    x    x                    
Edd Roush           CF  1913-1931   20.9   42.9   85    x    x    x    x    x                    
Sam Thompson        RF  1885-1906   22.1   42.2   84    x    x    x    x    x                    
Eppa Rixey          SP  1912-1933   17.6   52.1   98    x    x    x    x                   x     
Kirby Puckett       CF  1984-1995   25.7   48.1   92    x         x    x         x              x
Charlie Bennett     C   1878-1893   23.5   37.2  101         x    x    x    x         x          
Deacon White        3B  1876-1890   15.0   32.5  116         x    x    x    x         x          
Stan Hack           3B  1932-1947   24.8   50.6   94         x    x    x    x              x     
Heinie Groh         3B  1912-1927   26.2   46.2   93         x    x    x    x                   x
Harry Stovey        1B  1880-1893   26.3   41.8   94         x    x    x    x                   x
Mark McGwire        1B  1986-2001   37.2   58.8  122         x    x                   x    x    x
Clark Griffith      SP  1891-1914   29.7   58.1  113         x         x              x    x    x
Billy Pierce        SP  1945-1964   25.4   50.2  100         x         x              x    x    x
Willie Randolph     2B  1975-1992   36.2   63.0  123         x         x              x    x    x
Rick Reuschel       SP  1972-1991   38.3   66.4  133         x              x         x    x    x
Wilbur Cooper       SP  1912-1926   25.6   51.9  101              x    x              x    x    x
Tony Mullane        SP  1881-1894   33.0   61.6  124              x    x              x    x    x
Luis Tiant          SP  1964-1982   33.6   61.9  127                   x    x         x    x    x
Player              Pos  From-To    tWAA   tWAR Rating HOF  HOM  BBF  PRG  BOB  SBH  HOS  WAR  WAA

4 Halls (25 players)

Code:

Player              Pos  From-To    tWAA   tWAR Rating HOF  HOM  BBF  PRG  BOB  SBH  HOS  WAR  WAA
Joe Sewell          SS  1920-1933   23.1   49.0   89    x    x    x    x                         
Lou Brock           LF  1961-1979    8.4   42.7   70    x         x    x    x                    
Pie Traynor         3B  1920-1937   10.2   33.9   59    x         x    x    x                    
Luis Aparicio       SS  1956-1973   20.5   51.7   92    x         x    x                   x     
Burleigh Grimes     SP  1916-1934   17.9   50.2   93    x         x    x                   x     
Tony Perez          1B  1964-1986   18.1   50.4   94    x         x    x                   x     
Frank Chance        1B  1898-1914   28.3   43.6   93    x         x    x                        x
Mickey Welch        SP  1880-1892   18.2   58.8  112    x              x              x    x     
Joe Tinker          SS  1902-1916   30.5   50.5  102    x                             x    x    x
Cupid Childs        2B  1888-1901   22.1   41.8   85         x    x    x    x                    
Bill Freehan        C   1961-1976   21.2   41.2   92         x    x    x    x                    
George Gore         CF  1879-1892   19.7   38.3   82         x    x    x    x                    
Paul Hines          CF  1876-1891   17.2   38.0   97         x    x    x    x                    
Ezra Sutton         3B  1876-1888    9.6   23.9   72         x    x    x    x                    
Darrell Evans       3B  1969-1989   24.3   55.1  104         x    x                   x    x     
Kevin Brown         SP  1986-2005   37.9   64.1  136         x                        x    x    x
David Cone          SP  1986-2003   34.6   58.8  127         x                        x    x    x
Rafael Palmeiro     1B  1986-2005   30.4   66.3  121         x                        x    x    x
Bret Saberhagen     SP  1984-2001   35.2   56.1  120         x                        x    x    x
Dave Stieb          SP  1979-1998   29.4   53.3  111         x                        x    x    x
Sal Bando           3B  1966-1981   32.7   57.1  115                   x              x    x    x
Buddy Bell          3B  1972-1989   32.6   61.5  121                   x              x    x    x
Bobby Bonds         RF  1968-1981   32.0   55.7  111                   x              x    x    x
Jim McCormick       SP  1878-1887   38.3   72.7  130                   x              x    x    x
Urban Shocker       SP  1916-1928   31.5   54.8  108                   x              x    x    x
Player              Pos  From-To    tWAA   tWAR Rating HOF  HOM  BBF  PRG  BOB  SBH  HOS  WAR  WAA

3 Halls (22 players)

Code:

Player              Pos  From-To    tWAA   tWAR Rating HOF  HOM  BBF  PRG  BOB  SBH  HOS  WAR  WAA
Rollie Fingers      RP  1968-1985    9.2   23.9   50    x    x    x                              
Orlando Cepeda      1B  1958-1974   18.2   46.2   81    x         x    x                         
Hugh Duffy          CF  1888-1906   17.8   40.2   75    x         x    x                         
Rabbit Maranville   SS  1912-1935    7.6   39.5   71    x         x    x                         
Hack Wilson         CF  1923-1934   21.4   37.2   76    x         x    x                         
Addie Joss          SP  1902-1910   21.1   41.4   84    x              x    x                    
Hardy Richardson    2B  1879-1892   20.6   38.7   83         x    x    x                         
Jimmy Sheckard      LF  1897-1913   19.7   46.6   85         x         x    x                    
Pete Browning       CF  1882-1894   26.9   37.9   91         x         x                        x
John McGraw         3B  1891-1906   29.2   44.1   97         x         x                        x
Charlie Keller      LF  1939-1952   29.0   40.4   89         x              x                   x
Babe Adams          SP  1906-1926   27.6   50.1  110                                  x    x    x
Kevin Appier        SP  1989-2004   28.7   51.4  110                                  x    x    x
Charlie Buffinton   SP  1882-1892   29.6   58.2  126                                  x    x    x
Eddie Cicotte       SP  1905-1920   25.7   54.5  108                                  x    x    x
Willie Davis        CF  1960-1979   26.2   56.7  101                                  x    x    x
Chuck Finley        SP  1986-2002   26.1   54.0  106                                  x    x    x
Orel Hershiser      SP  1983-2000   28.0   53.0  100                                  x    x    x
Bob Johnson         LF  1933-1945   30.9   52.8  105                                  x    x    x
Chet Lemon          CF  1975-1990   29.8   52.1  107                                  x    x    x
Kenny Lofton        CF  1991-2007   38.4   65.0  130                                  x    x    x
Sammy Sosa          RF  1989-2007   28.1   54.9  114                                  x    x    x
Player              Pos  From-To    tWAA   tWAR Rating HOF  HOM  BBF  PRG  BOB  SBH  HOS  WAR  WAA

2 Halls (20 players)

Code:

Player              Pos  From-To    tWAA   tWAR Rating HOF  HOM  BBF  PRG  BOB  SBH  HOS  WAR  WAA
Bruce Sutter        RP  1976-1988   14.3   23.1   53    x         x                              
Lefty Gomez         SP  1930-1943   13.6   34.7   74    x              x                         
Tony Lazzeri        2B  1926-1939   23.5   46.3   86    x              x                         
Ernie Lombardi      C   1931-1947   24.4   43.8   99    x              x                         
Sam Rice            RF  1915-1934   15.5   48.2   79    x              x                         
Phil Rizzuto        SS  1941-1956   20.7   37.9   75    x              x                         
Charley Jones       LF  1876-1888   15.8   25.0   63         x         x                         
Brian Downing       DH  1973-1992   21.1   47.8   90              x    x                         
Carl Mays           SP  1915-1929   21.1   46.9   80              x    x                         
Dale Murphy         CF  1976-1993   16.3   42.7   84              x    x                         
George Van Haltren  CF  1887-1903    9.6   40.6   72              x    x                         
Bucky Walters       SP  1931-1950   23.8   51.9   92                   x                   x     
Tommy John          SP  1963-1989   19.0   56.4  102                                  x    x     
Jack Quinn          SP  1909-1933   21.5   52.7  106                                  x    x     
Silver King         SP  1886-1897   27.7   47.9  103                                  x         x
Thurman Munson      C   1969-1979   25.6   43.3  101                                  x         x
Gene Tenace         C   1969-1983   27.9   44.3  103                                  x         x
Ron Cey             3B  1971-1987   26.2   50.5   98                                       x    x
John Olerud         1B  1989-2005   27.4   53.8   99.8                                     x    x
Robin Ventura       3B  1989-2004   28.4   52.4   99.5                                     x    x
Player              Pos  From-To    tWAA   tWAR Rating HOF  HOM  BBF  PRG  BOB  SBH  HOS  WAR  WAA

1 Hall (58 players)

Code:

Player              Pos  From-To    tWAA   tWAR Rating HOF  HOM  BBF  PRG  BOB  SBH  HOS  WAR  WAA
Dave Bancroft       SS  1915-1930   23.2   46.7   93    x                                        
Chief Bender        SP  1903-1925   20.8   46.3   90    x                                        
Jim Bottomley       1B  1922-1937    9.0   33.0   60    x                                        
Jack Chesbro        SP  1899-1909   14.3   38.9   75    x                                        
Earle Combs         CF  1924-1935   19.6   39.9   74    x                                        
Kiki Cuyler         RF  1921-1938   21.3   44.4   87    x                                        
Johnny Evers        2B  1902-1929   24.2   45.2   87    x                                        
Rick Ferrell        C   1929-1947    5.9   26.3   49    x                                        
Chick Hafey         LF  1924-1937   13.7   28.4   56    x                                        
Jesse Haines        SP  1918-1937    5.4   30.7   56    x                                        
Harry Hooper        RF  1909-1925   15.7   49.6   82    x                                        
Waite Hoyt          SP  1918-1938   14.7   46.8   92    x                                        
Catfish Hunter      SP  1965-1979    8.7   36.7   61    x                                        
Travis Jackson      SS  1922-1936   22.7   41.8   87    x                                        
George Kell         3B  1943-1957   15.3   34.4   64    x                                        
High Pockets Kelly  1B  1915-1932    4.8   23.7   41    x                                        
Chuck Klein         RF  1928-1944   20.5   41.3   85    x                                        
Freddie Lindstrom   3B  1924-1936    9.2   26.6   50    x                                        
Heinie Manush       LF  1923-1939   15.4   41.6   76    x                                        
Rube Marquard       SP  1908-1925    4.2   29.2   63    x                                        
Bill Mazeroski      2B  1956-1972    4.7   32.3   50    x                                        
Tommy McCarthy      RF  1884-1896   -1.4   12.5   26    x                                        
Herb Pennock        SP  1912-1934    8.5   39.7   78    x                                        
Jim Rice            LF  1974-1989   18.9   44.4   82    x                                        
Ray Schalk          C   1912-1929    4.4   25.1   48    x                                        
Red Schoendienst    2B  1945-1963    8.5   39.0   65    x                                        
Lloyd Waner         CF  1927-1945   -2.1   22.0   33    x                                        
Ross Youngs         RF  1917-1926   15.7   30.9   60    x                                        
Albert Belle        LF  1989-2000   17.2   37.0   71              x                              
Fred McGriff        1B  1986-2004   19.9   48.2   91              x                              
Dave Parker         RF  1973-1991    6.7   36.5   76              x                              
Dan Quisenberry     RP  1979-1990   14.7   23.7   56              x                              
Wally Berger        CF  1930-1940   23.6   39.8   80                   x                         
Tommy Bridges       SP  1930-1946   23.8   46.5   96                   x                         
Bob Elliott         3B  1939-1953   21.2   47.7   86                   x                         
Tommy Leach         CF  1898-1918   17.3   43.8   80                   x                         
Herman Long         SS  1889-1904    8.8   33.6   56                   x                         
Jimmy Ryan          CF  1885-1903   12.7   41.2   72                   x                         
Wally Schang        C   1913-1931   20.4   41.4   92                   x                         
Vern Stephens       SS  1941-1955   24.1   41.8   83                   x                         
Tommy Bond          SP  1876-1884   25.1   47.1  131                                  x          
Wilbur Wood         RP  1961-1978   24.4   47.0  101                                  x          
Jose Cruz           LF  1970-1988   24.7   50.8   96                                       x     
Vada Pinson         CF  1958-1975   16.5   50.2   90                                       x     
Jack Powell         SP  1897-1912   14.4   52.2   90                                       x     
Frank Tanana        SP  1973-1993   17.7   52.7   95                                       x     
George Uhle         SP  1919-1936   24.0   51.0   87                                       x     
Jim Whitney         SP  1881-1890   20.9   50.3   90                                       x     
Norm Cash           1B  1958-1974   25.9   48.3   92                                            x
Cesar Cedeno        CF  1970-1986   26.3   49.8   99.4                                          x
Jack Clark          RF  1975-1992   25.8   49.9   94                                            x
Lenny Dykstra       CF  1985-1996   26.3   41.1   84                                            x
Art Fletcher        SS  1909-1922   27.7   44.8   96                                            x
Dwight Gooden       SP  1984-2000   27.3   49.8   94                                            x
Ron Guidry          SP  1975-1988   25.5   45.3   92                                            x
Noodles Hahn        SP  1899-1906   26.5   42.7   94                                            x
Nap Rucker          SP  1907-1916   27.7   45.6   99.6                                          x
Dizzy Trout         SP  1939-1957   27.9   46.3   93                                            x
Player              Pos  From-To    tWAA   tWAR Rating HOF  HOM  BBF  PRG  BOB  SBH  HOS  WAR  WAA

**Bothrops Atrox** · 11-20-2012, 02:51 PM

How are Adam D's "Hall rating" and Hall of stats different? Is the "hall rating" his old wWAR? Also, tWAA is just WAA with combining pitcher pitching with pitcher offense, right? If so, would be need just WAA? Same with WAR and tWAR?

**Nerdlinger** · 11-20-2012, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by Matthew C. View Post

How are Adam D's "Hall rating" and Hall of stats different? Is the "hall rating" his old wWAR? Also, tWAA is just WAA with combining pitcher pitching with pitcher offense, right? If so, would be need just WAA? Same with WAR and tWAR?

He's got a new Hall which evolved from his Hall of wWAR and uses the Hall Rating as its ranking system. I specify that it's total WAA/R because I've seen instances where people use only pitching Wins for pitchers and only position player Wins for position players. Monte Ward really gets the shaft that way.

**Jackaroo Dave** · 11-20-2012, 03:16 PM

Thank you for doing this. It's wonderfully informative.

**Nerdlinger** · 11-20-2012, 03:24 PM

Originally posted by Jackaroo Dave View Post

Thank you for doing this. It's wonderfully informative.

You're welcome. Glad you like it.

**Bothrops Atrox** · 11-20-2012, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by DJC View Post

He's got a new Hall which evolved from his Hall of wWAR and uses the Hall Rating as its ranking system. I specify that it's total WAA/R because I've seen instances where people use only pitching Wins for pitchers and only position player Wins for position players. Monte Ward really gets the shaft that way.

Yeah, that is the Hall of Stats that you referenced, I have poured through it a lot the past 2 weeks. I was wondering about the "Hall Rating" that you cited six spots above the HOS. Is that his wWAR Hall of Fame? It looks like the number is the "HOF Rating", but he is using that number to put guys in the "Hall of Stats". Isn't that just one HOF and not two? Sorry, I am really confused.

BTW - I am always in favor of including pitcher offense in HOF criteria, to not do so is crazy, IMO. Thank you for including it!

**Nerdlinger** · 11-20-2012, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by Matthew C. View Post

Yeah, that is the Hall of Stats that you referenced, I have poured through it a lot the past 2 weeks. I was wondering about the "Hall Rating" that you cited six spots above the HOS. Is that his wWAR Hall of Fame? It looks like the number is the "HOF Rating", but he is using that number to put guys in the "Hall of Stats". Isn't that just one HOF and not two? Sorry, I am really confused.

BTW - I am always in favor of including pitcher offense in HOF criteria, to not do so is crazy, IMO. Thank you for including it!

I just included his Hall Rating for reference, like I did with tWAA and tWAR -- it's not a separate Hall or anything here, if that's what you're asking. I didn't include his Hall of wWAR here because the Hall of Stats is basically an updated version of it.

**Bothrops Atrox** · 11-20-2012, 06:46 PM

Originally posted by DJC View Post

I just included his Hall Rating for reference, like I did with tWAA and tWAR -- it's not a separate Hall or anything here, if that's what you're asking. I didn't include his Hall of wWAR here because the Hall of Stats is basically an updated version of it.

Got it. All making sense to me now!

Is 25 the cutoff for the WAA HOF?

**Nerdlinger** · 11-20-2012, 07:30 PM

Originally posted by Matthew C. View Post

Got it. All making sense to me now!

Is 25 the cutoff for the WAA HOF?

Not quite. I decided to set the cutoff at a player (Sandy Koufax) rather than a number.

**adarowski** · 11-26-2012, 07:59 PM

Oh, wow. This thread is great. Thanks for this comparison.

By the way… I'm Adam, the guy who did the Hall of Stats. Glad to see it holding up well!

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