The last 25, I promise, please rate them

[JR Hart]

I was going to stop at 100, but after realizing that I had forgotton Pedro, the Unit, and Raffie and then seeing the excellant thread, by DJC showing all the HOFs, I just had to add these 25 to my project . Thanks for all the feedback. I apreciate it. I especially like when posters add comments to their ratings.

I promise that I will stop at 125. thank you

Here is the rating scale:

5-Why is he not in? (if he was eligible)
4- Has a good case
3- marginal, has some merit
2-comes up short
1-are you kidding me?

the really final 25

Jack Glasscock
Sherry Magee
Pedro Martinez
Heinie Groh
Randy Johnson
Stan Hack
Rafael Palmeiro
Gene Tenace
Hardy Richardson
Rick Reuschel
Willie Randolph
Jim McCormick
Urban Shocker
Pete Browning
Babe Adams
Kevin Appier
Willie Davis
Chuck Finley
Bob Johnson
Chet Lemon
Bob Caruthers
Tony Mullane
Sal Bando
Jack Quinn
Vern Stephens

[leecemark]

Jack Glasscock - 3
Sherry Magee - 3
Pedro Martinez - 5
Heinie Groh - 4
Randy Johnson - 5
Stan Hack - 4
Rafael Palmeiro - 4
Gene Tenace - 2
Hardy Richardson - 3
Rick Reuschel - 3
Willie Randolph - 3
Jim McCormick - 2
Urban Shocker - 3
Pete Browning - 3
Babe Adams - 3
Kevin Appier - 2
Willie Davis - 2
Chuck Finley - 2
Bob Johnson - 2
Chet Lemon - 2
Bob Caruthers - 5
Babe Adams - is this a different Babe Adams than the Pirates pitcher?
Sal Bando - 2
Jack Quinn - 1
Vern Stephens - 3

[JR Hart]

Babe Adams - is this a different Babe Adams than the Pirates pitcher?

No. he is 2 HOFs according DJC's thread


.....and listed twice ooops

I meant to put Tony Mullane please rate him

[toomanyhatz]

Jack Glasscock - 4 - Versatility, top fielding. With a .300 avg. he'd be better known.
Sherry Magee - 3 - Nice peak, decent career, and by the standards of his era, quite a power hitter, but a minus fielder at two positions where there are plenty better
Pedro Martinez - 5 - Don't care about the low win total (by HoF standards) or the intimidation factor- if he was really clean he's in the top ten pitchers in history.
Heinie Groh - 4 - Knew how to get on base, fielded two positions well. Good enough for me.
Randy Johnson - 5 - Harnessed his control late, but then lasted a while for good measure. Like Glavine and Maddux, one of the last of his kind.
Stan Hack - 3- Bill James cause celebre underrated by some, overrated by James. Too many average years, but great peak.
Rafael Palmeiro - 3 - Grudgingly I give him a 3. Steroids prolonged his career or he wouldn't have the headline numbers. Steady and very very good, short of great.
Gene Tenace - 2- Good on base guy who clogged the pipes once he got on. Underrated in a way I guess, but well below Tom Haller, let alone Bill Freehan.
Hardy Richardson - 2 - Another 19th Century "power hitter." Largely unfamiliar, but the numbers don't impress. Pretty typical for the period except for the few peak years.
Rick Reuschel - 3 - The late comback's impressive, I suppose, but "slow and steady" shouldn't win the race for pitchers.
Willie Randolph - 4 - My Darrel Evans. One of the most underrated players in baseball history. Loved him as a Dodger.
Jim McCormick - 3 - Even more like Bond, only without the control.
Urban Shocker - 3 - Great for the Browns, OK for the Yanks, too little peak overall. Better than plenty (including teammates!) already in of course.
Pete Browning - 2 - Starred in inferior leagues, couldn't field worth a damn.
Babe Adams - 2 - Good but not great.
Tony Mullane - 4 - The other Irish-born player that should be in the HoF, though he was kind of a creep by all accounts.
Kevin Appier - 2 - Similar to Reuschel, not as good. Not quite enouh to impress me.
Willie Davis - 3 - Great all-around game, adjust for the era and he looks better. Still, a touch short of greatness.
Chuck Finley - 2 - Mostly remembered for wearing Tawny Kitaen's boot prints. A very good pitcher for a decent amount of time.
Bob Johnson - 3 - Indian Bob's right on the borderline. Had easily his best season at age 38. Test him!! (Kidding.)
Chet Lemon - 2 - Did a lot of things well. Not better than Tony Oliva.
Bob Caruthers - 3 - Yet another short-peaked pitcher who resembles Bond. My distrust for AA stats lessens my confidence in him.
Sal Bando - 3 - Also in the Darrel Evans mode, with less offense.
Jack Quinn - 2 - Impressive staying power, few signs of greatness.
Vern Stephens - 3 - Very underrated, great hitter and surprisingly good fielder seemingly, at multiple positions. Too little peak, but as I said on the SS thread, what a peak!

[leecemark]

Tony Mullane - 3

[jjpm74]

Feel free to do more after this if you want. These lists have been good conversation pieces in the forums.

Jack Glasscock - 4 (great player in his day)
Sherry Magee - 5 (One of the old timers who should be in already)
Pedro Martinez - 5 (one of the most dominant peaks ever)
Heinie Groh - 4 (dominant in his era)
Randy Johnson - 5 (one of the best pitchers in the history of baseball)
Stan Hack - 4 (would be a 5, but his career is a bit short)
Rafael Palmeiro - 2 (PEDs + compiler = no way)
Gene Tenace - 3 (has a much better case than people give him credit for)
Hardy Richardson - 4 (Dominant second baseman)
Rick Reuschel - 4 (Bert Blyleven lite)
Willie Randolph - 4 (Dominant second baseman)
Jim McCormick - 3 (Stats are a bit gaudy; the 4th best pitcher in a 12 team league. Pass)
Urban Shocker - 5 (Many of his contemporaries with lesser careers than him are in)
Pete Browning - 3 (His fielding prevents him from being a 4)
Babe Adams - 3 (Solid pitcher with a good WHIP, but his career falls a bit short)
Kevin Appier - 3 (Great for a short period, but not enough)
Willie Davis - 1 (No way)
Chuck Finley - 2 (Career was too short)
Bob Johnson - 4 (Indian Bob was a great hitter)
Chet Lemon - 2 (better than he gets credit for, but not a HoFer)
Bob Caruthers - 5 (pitching + hitting)
Tony Mullane - 3 (pitched in a weak league)
Sal Bando - 4 (the cornerstone of a franchise during one of its most successful eras)
Jack Quinn - 4 (Length of career + sustained durability and productivity)
Vern Stephens - 3 (Playing during WWII hurts his case; Phil Rizzuto was much better than him)

[dgarza]

Jack Glasscock - 2
Sherry Magee - 5
Pedro Martinez - 5
Heinie Groh - 2
Randy Johnson - 5
Stan Hack - 4
Rafael Palmeiro - 5
Gene Tenace - 1
Hardy Richardson - 3
Rick Reuschel - 1
Willie Randolph - 2
Jim McCormick - 5
Urban Shocker - 2
Pete Browning - 5
Babe Adams - 1
Kevin Appier - 1
Willie Davis - 1
Chuck Finley - 1
Bob Johnson - 4
Chet Lemon - 1
Bob Caruthers - 5
Tony Mullane - 4
Sal Bando - 1
Jack Quinn - 1
Vern Stephens - 4

[Bothrops Atrox]

Jack Glasscock - 3
Sherry Magee - 4
Pedro Martinez - 5
Heinie Groh - 2
Randy Johnson - 5
Stan Hack - 3
Rafael Palmeiro - 4
Gene Tenace - 3
Hardy Richardson - 2
Rick Reuschel - 3
Willie Randolph - 3
Jim McCormick - 3
Urban Shocker - 3
Pete Browning - 2
Babe Adams - 2
Kevin Appier - 3
Willie Davis - 3
Chuck Finley - 2
Bob Johnson - 3
Chet Lemon - 2
Bob Caruthers - 4
Tony Mullane - 3
Sal Bando - 4
Jack Quinn - 2
Vern Stephens-2

[PVNICK]

Jack Glasscock - 4
Sherry Magee - 4
Pedro Martinez - 5
Heinie Groh - 4
Randy Johnson - 5
Stan Hack - 4
Rafael Palmeiro - 1
Gene Tenace - 1
Hardy Richardson - 3
Rick Reuschel - 2
Willie Randolph - 3
Jim McCormick - 1
Urban Shocker - 3
Pete Browning - 3
Babe Adams - 2
Kevin Appier - 2
Willie Davis - 2
Chuck Finley - 2
Bob Johnson - 2
Chet Lemon - 2
Bob Caruthers - 4
Tony Mullane - 2
Sal Bando - 3
Jack Quinn - 1
Vern Stephens - 2

[Cougar]

Here is the rating scale:

5-Why is he not in? (if he was eligible)
4- Has a good case
3- marginal, has some merit
2-comes up short
1-are you kidding me?

the really final 25

Jack Glasscock - 3 - Great fielder, 2000+ hits...that usually gets a shortstop over the line.
Sherry Magee - 4 - Dominant dead ball hitter
Pedro Martinez - 5 - More dominant than Koufax in his prime.
Heinie Groh - 3 - Great deadball on base man -- best player on 1919 Reds WS winners*
Randy Johnson - 5 - Was Big Unit the best lefty ever? You could make a case.
Stan Hack - 5 - Prime example of the chronic shortchanging of third basemen and leadoff men.
Rafael Palmeiro - 5 - Finger wag is only argument against. Not that it's a bad one.
Gene Tenace - 2 - A classic TTO guy, but only eight full time seasons, and not much of a catcher.
Hardy Richardson - 3 - Very borderline 19th century player; would prefer 2.5
Rick Reuschel - 3 - Great pitcher on awful Cubs teams.
Willie Randolph - 4 - underrated due to lack of power; classy player also overshadowed by Bronx Zoo.
Jim McCormick - 3 - Very good 19th century pitcher...question with this and others is how deep do we go in 19th century?
Urban Shocker - 4 - Better than several HOF pitchers; odd oversight on great Yankee teams
Pete Browning - 3 - Wonderful hitter, awful fielder
Babe Adams - 2 - Pirates have a bunch of good pitchers in the deadball era.
Kevin Appier - 2 - Very good run with Royals in 1990s
Willie Davis - 2 - Better than his reputation, but falls just short.
Chuck Finley - 2 - A very good pitcher for a long time.
Bob Johnson - 4 - Great hitter on awful A's teams
Chet Lemon - 2 - Solid but unspectacular centerfielder
Bob Caruthers - 4 - Short but spectacular career; great hitting pitcher won an OPS title
Tony Mullane - 3 - Flamboyant 19th century pitcher with 280+ wins
Sal Bando - 3 - Captain of the 1970s A's dynasty
Jack Quinn - 2 - One of the last spitballers; had best season in Federal League
Vern Stephens - 4 - Great bat and solid glove at SS; lost amidst star-laden Red Sox teams of 1940s.

[Yankillaz]

Jack Glasscock - 3
Sherry Magee - 4
Pedro Martinez - 5
Heinie Groh - 3
Randy Johnson - 5
Stan Hack - 4
Rafael Palmeiro - 4
Gene Tenace - 2
Hardy Richardson - 3
Rick Reuschel - 2
Willie Randolph - 2
Jim McCormick - 4
Urban Shocker - 3
Pete Browning - 3
Babe Adams - 3
Kevin Appier - 2
Willie Davis - 3
Chuck Finley - 2
Bob Johnson - 3
Chet Lemon - 2
Bob Caruthers - 4
Tony Mullane - 4
Sal Bando - 2
Jack Quinn
Vern Stephens

[J W]

Jack Glasscock - 3
Sherry Magee - 4
Pedro Martinez - 5
Heinie Groh - 4
Randy Johnson - 5
Stan Hack - 4
Rafael Palmeiro - 5
Gene Tenace - 3
Hardy Richardson - 3
Rick Reuschel - 2
Willie Randolph - 3
Jim McCormick - 2
Urban Shocker - 3
Pete Browning - 3
Babe Adams - 2
Kevin Appier - 2
Willie Davis - 2
Chuck Finley - 2
Bob Johnson - 3
Chet Lemon - 2
Bob Caruthers - 4
Tony Mullane - 3
Sal Bando - 3
Jack Quinn - 3
Vern Stephens - 3

[JR Hart]

Jack Glasscock 4- as far as SS go, yeah he’s a HOFer
Sherry Magee 4- very overlooked
Pedro Martinez 4- fantastic peak and certainly a HOFer, but he doesn’t have the sustained excellence for me to give him a 5
Heinie Groh 2 – great glove 1774 hits don’t cut it
Randy Johnson 5- the Unit was just incredible
Stan Hack 3- wouldn’t be the worst guy in great OBP, If Kell is in he should be, but Kell shouldn’t be.
Rafael Palmeiro 4 – HOF career, but not upper elite
Gene Tenace 1- I watched him play for 3 years, just no
Hardy Richardson 3- certainly a slugger for his time, just 1688 hits, just not enough
Rick Reuschel 4 - I love Big Daddy, pitched well for bad teams
Willie Randolph 4- 5x all-star championships, consistency, OBP, he rates
Jim McCormick 4- Overlooked, this guy makes the grade. He won big.
Urban Shocker 3- 187-117, a good ERA+ 124 just not there
Pete Browning 2 - OPS+ king, he just didn’t play very long
Babe Adams 2- started out well and fizzled
Kevin Appier 2- not enough for long enough
Willie Davis 4 – great outfielder, base runner and hitter, played on championship teams
Chuck Finley 3- borderline, Appier with more longevity
Bob Johnson 3 -a real masher, falls in with the Frank Howards as just not there
Chet Lemon 3- the real glue to some good Tiger teams
Bob Caruthers -4 just 9 years, but 218-99 .688
Tony Mullane 4- I’m a sucker for 19th Cent pitchers 284-224
Sal Bando 3 -3 rings holds a lot of water, but the numbers are’t there
Jack Quinn 3- longevity award, but nothing spectacular
Vern Stephens 4 – The Tulo of his time

[PVNICK]

Jack Glasscock 4- as far as SS go, yeah he’s a HOFer
Sherry Magee 4- very overlooked
Pedro Martinez 4- fantastic peak and certainly a HOFer, but he doesn’t have the sustained excellence for me to give him a 5
Heinie Groh 2 – great glove 1774 hits don’t cut it
Randy Johnson 5- the Unit was just incredible
Stan Hack 3- wouldn’t be the worst guy in great OBP, If Kell is in he should be, but Kell shouldn’t be.
Rafael Palmeiro 4 – HOF career, but not upper elite
Gene Tenace 1- I watched him play for 3 years, just no
Hardy Richardson 3- certainly a slugger for his time, just 1688 hits, just not enough
Rick Reuschel 4 - I love Big Daddy, pitched well for bad teams
Willie Randolph 4- 5x all-star championships, consistency, OBP, he rates
Jim McCormick 4- Overlooked, this guy makes the grade. He won big.
Urban Shocker 3- 187-117, a good ERA+ 124 just not there
Pete Browning 2 - OPS+ king, he just didn’t play very long
Babe Adams 2- started out well and fizzled
Kevin Appier 2- not enough for long enough
Willie Davis 4 – great outfielder, base runner and hitter, played on championship teams
Chuck Finley 3- borderline, Appier with more longevity
Bob Johnson 3 -a real masher, falls in with the Frank Howards as just not there
Chet Lemon 3- the real glue to some good Tiger teams
Bob Caruthers -4 just 9 years, but 218-99 .688
Tony Mullane 4- I’m a sucker for 19th Cent pitchers 284-224
Sal Bando 3 -3 rings holds a lot of water, but the numbers are’t there
Jack Quinn 3- longevity award, but nothing spectacular
Vern Stephens 4 – The Tulo of his time

you know for a guy that presents himself as a curmudgeon you actually are pretty generous. I mean that in a good way.

[JR Hart]

you know for a guy that presents himself as a curmudgeon you actually are pretty generous. I mean that in a good way.

Thanks, I'll take it in a good way. I actually had to look up the word curmudgeon ( I only had an English minor [laugh]). It means a "surly or miserly person." Wow, I'll try to present myself better. I'm actually very satirical, but that doesn't come across well in print.

As for my rankings, yes this is the most generous that I've been. I found myself going back and upgrading a few times to adjust the relative scores. I've enjoyed this list the most, because the idea for these guys from the HOF comparision thread, which is awesome.

I really like doing this project. I hope that people are reading the ranking that I put out, when the voting for each group has run it's course. It's a simple process, but I hope that it adds to some good discussion. The rankings are different from some of the other rankings here. Keith Hernandez recieved light support here. Someone noted on this thread, that I should keep posting lists of players, that would be my pleasure.

Thanks to everyone for the input and please keep rating this group. I especially like when posters make comments.