The Really Big Hall of Fame: 1900

[Cowtipper]

Welcome to the Really Big Hall of Fame, a project dedicated to developing a much more inclusive Hall of Fame. We're all "big Hall" guys here.

This is like the Progressive Hall of Fame, but with one catch. You MUST vote for 12 players in each election. It doesn't matter if you wouldn't vote for them "in real life." This is the Really Big Hall of Fame. We want a lot of inductees.

But please take the voting seriously. Please do not just vote ten random players--consider who is on the ballot and vote for the ten who you think were the best, who are most deserving for election.

To ensure that people follow the "12 player rule", I will be requiring that participating members submit their ballots as posts, rather than via a poll. That way I can ensure accountability.

Rules and information

1. A player is eligible five years from the date of his final major league game.
2. A player may appear on the ballot as many as 15 times.
3. A player must receive 65% of the vote to be elected.
4. A player must receive at least 5% of the vote to remain on the ballot.
5. Elections will last seven days (one week).
6. Usually, a player must have played 10 seasons to be eligible. But since this is the Really Big Hall of Fame, (admittedly arbitrary) exceptions will made.
7. For the time being, only major league players will be considered, including NA players. Negro League votes will come later on.

This first ballot consists of players who retired between 1871 and 1895. Normally, you will be required to choose 10 players, but due to the size of this first ballot, you must choose 18 players.

Select your best 18 from this list. You must vote for 18 players. To save players from ballot elimination, you are also allowed a "would have voted for" list--a list of up to three players you would have voted for had you enough room. This will save them from dropping off the ballot even if they do not receive a vote.

Mark Baldwin
Ross Barnes
Charlie Bennett
Tommy Bond
George Bradley
Pete Browning
Charlie Buffinton
Tom Burns
Oyster Burns
Bob Caruthers
John Clarkson
Charlie Comiskey
Larry Corcoran
Candy Cummings
Abner Dalrymple
Jerry Denny
Fred Dunlap
Jack Farrell
Bob Ferguson
Silver Flint
Davy Force
Pud Galvin
Jack Glasscock
George Gore
Ned Hanlon
Guy Hecker
Paul Hines
Joe Hornung
Charley Jones
Tim Keefe
King Kelly
Henry Larkin
Bobby Mathews
Dick McBride
Jim McCormick
Cal McVey
Levi Meyerle
John Morrill
Ed Morris
Tony Mullane
Tip O'Neill
Dave Orr
Dickey Pearce
Old Hoss Radbourn
Paul Radford
John Reilly
Hardy Richardson
Yank Robinson
Jack Rowe
Al Spalding
Harry Staley
Joe Start
Harry Stovey
Ezra Sutton
Monte Ward
Curt Welch
Deacon White
Will White
Jim Whitney
Ned Williamson
Sam Wise
George Wood
Harry Wright
George Wright
Tommy York
George Zettlein

[Cowtipper]

Tommy Bond
Pete Browning
Charlie Buffinton
Bob Caruthers
John Clarkson
Pud Galvin
Jack Glasscock
Paul Hines
Tim Keefe
King Kelly
Bobby Mathews
Jim McCormick
Tony Mullane
Old Hoss Radbourn
Al Spalding
Ezra Sutton
Monte Ward
George Wright

Would have voted for:

Tip O'Neill
Monte Ward
George Gore

Perhaps others.

[jjpm74]

1. Ross Barnes
2. Charlie Bennett
3. Bob Caruthers
4. John Clarkson
5. Larry Corcoran
6. Pud Galvin
7. Jack Glasscock
8. George Gore
9. Paul Hines
10. Charley Jones
11. Tim Keefe
12. King Kelly
13. Old Hoss Radbourn
14. Al Spalding
15. Joe Start
16. Ezra Sutton
17. Deacon White
18. George Wright

Potentially will vote for:

Tommy Bond
Charlie Buffinton
Candy Cummings
Bobby Mathews
Dick McBride
Jim McCormick
Cal McVey
Tony Mullane
Tip O'Neill
Dave Orr
Dickey Pearce
Hardy Richardson
Jack Rowe
Harry Stovey
Monte Ward

[leecemark]

--I actually had a hard time cutting down to 15
Ross Barnes
Charlie Bennett
Bob Caruthers
John Clarkson
Pud Galvin
George Gore
Paul Hines
Tim Keefe
King Kelly
Dickey Pearce
Old Hoss Radbourn
Al Spalding
Monte Ward
Deacon White
George Wright

[Freakshow]

Since this is now 1900, Jim O'Rourke should be on the ballot since he's been out of MLB since 1893.

Lip Pike is also conspicuously absent from the ballot. And Mickey Welch.

[Freakshow]

Barnes
Clarkson
Galvin
Glasscock
Gore
Hines
Keefe
Kelly
Radbourn
Richardson
Spalding
Start
Ward
White D
Wright G

...and three more
Pearce
Stovey H
Sutton

...and would have voted for
Bennett
Caruthers
McVey

[Cowtipper]

Since this is now 1900, Jim O'Rourke should be on the ballot since he's been out of MLB since 1893.

Lip Pike is also conspicuously absent from the ballot. And Mickey Welch.

I understand what you're saying about Rourke, but he reappeared in 1904 so I'm going to include him on the 1909 ballot. I've amended the rules slightly above to be more clear about that. Lip Pike was on the list but for some reason didn't copy. Same with Welch. I'll include them next year.

[PVNICK]

Ross Barnes
Pete Browning
John Clarkson
Tim Keefe
King Kelly
Cal McVey
Levi Meyerle
Dickey Pearce
Old Hoss Radbourn
Al Spalding
Joe Start
Monte Ward
Deacon White
Harry Wright
George Wright

I had a hard time with 15. I always twin Gore and Hines so I let them be and gave the last spot to The Louisville Slugger over Caruthers, Bond, Glasscock and Corcoran to name a few.

Edit: My would have voted for if I had room pecking order
1-Glasscock 2-Hines 3-Gore
if there is room for more 4-Caruthers 5-Corcoran 6-Bennett 7-Bond

others but not all that if there is room would get my vote: Flint, Jones, O'Neill, Orr

[Nerdlinger]

I'd like to participate, but I have a couple questions first. When we get around to the Negro Leaguers, will they be grouped together with MLB players or will there be separate elections held? I'm aware of the irony in doing that, but I have trouble ranking Negro Leaguers due to the lack of reliable statistics. Also, just curious, but why is there a 5-year delay instead of the current 6-year one? (It's 5 full seasons, which works out to 6 years.)

[DoubleX]

I understand what you're saying about Rourke, but he reappeared in 1904 so I'm going to include him on the 1909 ballot. I've amended the rules slightly above to be more clear about that. Lip Pike was on the list but for some reason didn't copy. Same with Welch. I'll include them next year.

Fun project, though in 1900, no one would have known that Rourke would briefly appear again in 1904, at age 53 and 11 years after his last appearance. I know from experience it can be hard to track these players, but I think it would be better to have O'Rourke (and others who were effectively done by 1895) eligible in this election.

Also, will there be VC elections?

[Nerdlinger]

Fun project, though in 1900, no one would have known that Rourke would briefly appear again in 1904, at age 53 and 11 years after his last appearance. I know from experience it can be hard to track these players, but I think it would be better to have O'Rourke (and others who were effectively done by 1895) eligible in this election.

Also, will there be VC elections?

But even if we pretend we were voting in the year 1900, we all have knowledge of the sport up to the present, which makes our opinions different than they really would have been in 1900. Since we're acting with this foreknowledge anyway, I don't see the problem with including in this foreknowledge the fact that some players made cameos after they became eligible for the Hall. As such, I would support Cowtipper's approach so as to consider each player's entire career.

[leecemark]

--The ballot is pretty crowded as it is, so the omissions probably aren't that big a deal. It should be many years before anyone is "forced" to vote for someone they don't actually support. My first cut this time (where I only deleted definate Nos) left 25 names on the ballot and the last few cuts to get to 15 were guys who I consider solid Hall of Famers. Curious to see how many guys are consensus enough to make 75% off this long list and how long it takes to clear the logjam of first generation players.

[Freakshow]

Fun project, though in 1900, no one would have known that Rourke would briefly appear again in 1904, at age 53 and 11 years after his last appearance. I know from experience it can be hard to track these players, but I think it would be better to have O'Rourke (and others who were effectively done by 1895) eligible in this election.

I agree with this, and yes it can be hard to track them. Fortunately, I did all that tracking in the Hall of Merit project at Baseballthinkfactory. I can send you a file with each year's list of new eligibles starting with 1903 (Anson and Connor the headliners).

In the HoM we started with the election of 1898, so players who last played significantly in 1892 were eligible for that first election. (O'Rourke was eligible the next year.) Note that I didn't say "retirement". Here was the rule we used:

Our default rule is eligibility after five years from the first time a player appears in less than ten games or pitches in less than five. This is not a strict rule, but a general guideline.

The spirit of the rule is really more important, along the lines of eligibility five years after "regular" play ends, such that subsequent appearances do not significantly alter an assessment of his career.

Eventually, for each election, at the top of the Ballot Discussion Thread we would have the official list of newly eligible players. Here is the election of 1900 Discussion Thread.

[Nerdlinger]

Anywho, here's my ballot.

First 15
Charlie Bennett
Tommy Bond
Pete Browning
Charlie Buffinton
Bob Caruthers
John Clarkson
Fred Dunlap
Jack Glasscock
Tim Keefe
King Kelly
Jim McCormick
Tony Mullane
Old Hoss Radbourn
Al Spalding
Harry Stovey
------
+3 for 18
Hardy Richardson
Deacon White
Jim Whitney
------
If I had more room
Pud Galvin
George Gore
Ed Morris

[Cowtipper]

I'd like to participate, but I have a couple questions first. When we get around to the Negro Leaguers, will they be grouped together with MLB players or will there be separate elections held? I'm aware of the irony in doing that, but I have trouble ranking Negro Leaguers due to the lack of reliable statistics. Also, just curious, but why is there a 5-year delay instead of the current 6-year one? (It's 5 full seasons, which works out to 6 years.)

I'm not entirely sure how I'll do the Negro Leaguers yet. I can see the positives of grouping them with the MLB guys and having them on their own, so it's still up in the air. I'll have to think about it.

In regards to the five year wait...I just thought I'd change it up a bit.