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The Really Big Hall of Fame: 1900

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  • The Really Big Hall of Fame: 1900

    Welcome to the Really Big Hall of Fame, a project dedicated to developing a much more inclusive Hall of Fame. We're all "big Hall" guys here.

    This is like the Progressive Hall of Fame, but with one catch. You MUST vote for 12 players in each election. It doesn't matter if you wouldn't vote for them "in real life." This is the Really Big Hall of Fame. We want a lot of inductees.

    But please take the voting seriously. Please do not just vote ten random players--consider who is on the ballot and vote for the ten who you think were the best, who are most deserving for election.

    To ensure that people follow the "12 player rule", I will be requiring that participating members submit their ballots as posts, rather than via a poll. That way I can ensure accountability.

    Rules and information

    1. A player is eligible five years from the date of his final major league game.
    2. A player may appear on the ballot as many as 15 times.
    3. A player must receive 65% of the vote to be elected.
    4. A player must receive at least 5% of the vote to remain on the ballot.
    5. Elections will last seven days (one week).
    6. Usually, a player must have played 10 seasons to be eligible. But since this is the Really Big Hall of Fame, (admittedly arbitrary) exceptions will made.
    7. For the time being, only major league players will be considered, including NA players. Negro League votes will come later on.

    This first ballot consists of players who retired between 1871 and 1895. Normally, you will be required to choose 10 players, but due to the size of this first ballot, you must choose 18 players.

    Select your best 18 from this list. You must vote for 18 players. To save players from ballot elimination, you are also allowed a "would have voted for" list--a list of up to three players you would have voted for had you enough room. This will save them from dropping off the ballot even if they do not receive a vote.

    Mark Baldwin
    Ross Barnes
    Charlie Bennett
    Tommy Bond
    George Bradley
    Pete Browning
    Charlie Buffinton
    Tom Burns
    Oyster Burns
    Bob Caruthers
    John Clarkson
    Charlie Comiskey
    Larry Corcoran
    Candy Cummings
    Abner Dalrymple
    Jerry Denny
    Fred Dunlap
    Jack Farrell
    Bob Ferguson
    Silver Flint
    Davy Force
    Pud Galvin
    Jack Glasscock
    George Gore
    Ned Hanlon
    Guy Hecker
    Paul Hines
    Joe Hornung
    Charley Jones
    Tim Keefe
    King Kelly
    Henry Larkin
    Bobby Mathews
    Dick McBride
    Jim McCormick
    Cal McVey
    Levi Meyerle
    John Morrill
    Ed Morris
    Tony Mullane
    Tip O'Neill
    Dave Orr
    Dickey Pearce
    Old Hoss Radbourn
    Paul Radford
    John Reilly
    Hardy Richardson
    Yank Robinson
    Jack Rowe
    Al Spalding
    Harry Staley
    Joe Start
    Harry Stovey
    Ezra Sutton
    Monte Ward
    Curt Welch
    Deacon White
    Will White
    Jim Whitney
    Ned Williamson
    Sam Wise
    George Wood
    Harry Wright
    George Wright
    Tommy York
    George Zettlein
    Last edited by Cowtipper; 11-30-2012, 08:37 AM.

  • #2
    Tommy Bond
    Pete Browning
    Charlie Buffinton
    Bob Caruthers
    John Clarkson
    Pud Galvin
    Jack Glasscock
    Paul Hines
    Tim Keefe
    King Kelly
    Bobby Mathews
    Jim McCormick
    Tony Mullane
    Old Hoss Radbourn
    Al Spalding
    Ezra Sutton
    Monte Ward
    George Wright

    Would have voted for:

    Tip O'Neill
    Monte Ward
    George Gore

    Perhaps others.
    Last edited by Cowtipper; 11-30-2012, 07:13 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      1. Ross Barnes
      2. Charlie Bennett
      3. Bob Caruthers
      4. John Clarkson
      5. Larry Corcoran
      6. Pud Galvin
      7. Jack Glasscock
      8. George Gore
      9. Paul Hines
      10. Charley Jones
      11. Tim Keefe
      12. King Kelly
      13. Old Hoss Radbourn
      14. Al Spalding
      15. Joe Start
      16. Ezra Sutton
      17. Deacon White
      18. George Wright

      Potentially will vote for:

      Tommy Bond
      Charlie Buffinton
      Candy Cummings
      Bobby Mathews
      Dick McBride
      Jim McCormick
      Cal McVey
      Tony Mullane
      Tip O'Neill
      Dave Orr
      Dickey Pearce
      Hardy Richardson
      Jack Rowe
      Harry Stovey
      Monte Ward
      Last edited by jjpm74; 11-30-2012, 08:38 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        --I actually had a hard time cutting down to 15
        Ross Barnes
        Charlie Bennett
        Bob Caruthers
        John Clarkson
        Pud Galvin
        George Gore
        Paul Hines
        Tim Keefe
        King Kelly
        Dickey Pearce
        Old Hoss Radbourn
        Al Spalding
        Monte Ward
        Deacon White
        George Wright

        Comment


        • #5
          Since this is now 1900, Jim O'Rourke should be on the ballot since he's been out of MLB since 1893.

          Lip Pike is also conspicuously absent from the ballot. And Mickey Welch.
          Last edited by Freakshow; 11-28-2012, 11:31 PM.
          Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

          Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

          Comment


          • #6
            Barnes
            Clarkson
            Galvin
            Glasscock
            Gore
            Hines
            Keefe
            Kelly
            Radbourn
            Richardson
            Spalding
            Start
            Ward
            White D
            Wright G

            ...and three more
            Pearce
            Stovey H
            Sutton

            ...and would have voted for
            Bennett
            Caruthers
            McVey
            Last edited by Freakshow; 12-04-2012, 10:20 AM.
            Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

            Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Freakshow View Post
              Since this is now 1900, Jim O'Rourke should be on the ballot since he's been out of MLB since 1893.

              Lip Pike is also conspicuously absent from the ballot. And Mickey Welch.
              I understand what you're saying about Rourke, but he reappeared in 1904 so I'm going to include him on the 1909 ballot. I've amended the rules slightly above to be more clear about that. Lip Pike was on the list but for some reason didn't copy. Same with Welch. I'll include them next year.
              Last edited by Cowtipper; 11-29-2012, 03:30 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Ross Barnes
                Pete Browning
                John Clarkson
                Tim Keefe
                King Kelly
                Cal McVey
                Levi Meyerle
                Dickey Pearce
                Old Hoss Radbourn
                Al Spalding
                Joe Start
                Monte Ward
                Deacon White
                Harry Wright
                George Wright

                I had a hard time with 15. I always twin Gore and Hines so I let them be and gave the last spot to The Louisville Slugger over Caruthers, Bond, Glasscock and Corcoran to name a few.

                Edit: My would have voted for if I had room pecking order
                1-Glasscock 2-Hines 3-Gore
                if there is room for more 4-Caruthers 5-Corcoran 6-Bennett 7-Bond

                others but not all that if there is room would get my vote: Flint, Jones, O'Neill, Orr
                Last edited by PVNICK; 11-30-2012, 08:48 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'd like to participate, but I have a couple questions first. When we get around to the Negro Leaguers, will they be grouped together with MLB players or will there be separate elections held? I'm aware of the irony in doing that, but I have trouble ranking Negro Leaguers due to the lack of reliable statistics. Also, just curious, but why is there a 5-year delay instead of the current 6-year one? (It's 5 full seasons, which works out to 6 years.)
                  *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Cowtipper View Post
                    I understand what you're saying about Rourke, but he reappeared in 1904 so I'm going to include him on the 1909 ballot. I've amended the rules slightly above to be more clear about that. Lip Pike was on the list but for some reason didn't copy. Same with Welch. I'll include them next year.
                    Fun project, though in 1900, no one would have known that Rourke would briefly appear again in 1904, at age 53 and 11 years after his last appearance. I know from experience it can be hard to track these players, but I think it would be better to have O'Rourke (and others who were effectively done by 1895) eligible in this election.

                    Also, will there be VC elections?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DoubleX View Post
                      Fun project, though in 1900, no one would have known that Rourke would briefly appear again in 1904, at age 53 and 11 years after his last appearance. I know from experience it can be hard to track these players, but I think it would be better to have O'Rourke (and others who were effectively done by 1895) eligible in this election.

                      Also, will there be VC elections?
                      But even if we pretend we were voting in the year 1900, we all have knowledge of the sport up to the present, which makes our opinions different than they really would have been in 1900. Since we're acting with this foreknowledge anyway, I don't see the problem with including in this foreknowledge the fact that some players made cameos after they became eligible for the Hall. As such, I would support Cowtipper's approach so as to consider each player's entire career.
                      *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        --The ballot is pretty crowded as it is, so the omissions probably aren't that big a deal. It should be many years before anyone is "forced" to vote for someone they don't actually support. My first cut this time (where I only deleted definate Nos) left 25 names on the ballot and the last few cuts to get to 15 were guys who I consider solid Hall of Famers. Curious to see how many guys are consensus enough to make 75% off this long list and how long it takes to clear the logjam of first generation players.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DoubleX View Post
                          Fun project, though in 1900, no one would have known that Rourke would briefly appear again in 1904, at age 53 and 11 years after his last appearance. I know from experience it can be hard to track these players, but I think it would be better to have O'Rourke (and others who were effectively done by 1895) eligible in this election.
                          I agree with this, and yes it can be hard to track them. Fortunately, I did all that tracking in the Hall of Merit project at Baseballthinkfactory. I can send you a file with each year's list of new eligibles starting with 1903 (Anson and Connor the headliners).

                          In the HoM we started with the election of 1898, so players who last played significantly in 1892 were eligible for that first election. (O'Rourke was eligible the next year.) Note that I didn't say "retirement". Here was the rule we used:

                          Our default rule is eligibility after five years from the first time a player appears in less than ten games or pitches in less than five. This is not a strict rule, but a general guideline.

                          The spirit of the rule is really more important, along the lines of eligibility five years after "regular" play ends, such that subsequent appearances do not significantly alter an assessment of his career.
                          Eventually, for each election, at the top of the Ballot Discussion Thread we would have the official list of newly eligible players. Here is the election of 1900 Discussion Thread.
                          Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

                          Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Anywho, here's my ballot.

                            First 15
                            Charlie Bennett
                            Tommy Bond
                            Pete Browning
                            Charlie Buffinton
                            Bob Caruthers
                            John Clarkson
                            Fred Dunlap
                            Jack Glasscock
                            Tim Keefe
                            King Kelly
                            Jim McCormick
                            Tony Mullane
                            Old Hoss Radbourn
                            Al Spalding
                            Harry Stovey
                            ------
                            +3 for 18
                            Hardy Richardson
                            Deacon White
                            Jim Whitney
                            ------
                            If I had more room
                            Pud Galvin
                            George Gore
                            Ed Morris
                            Last edited by Nerdlinger; 11-30-2012, 10:41 AM.
                            *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DJC View Post
                              I'd like to participate, but I have a couple questions first. When we get around to the Negro Leaguers, will they be grouped together with MLB players or will there be separate elections held? I'm aware of the irony in doing that, but I have trouble ranking Negro Leaguers due to the lack of reliable statistics. Also, just curious, but why is there a 5-year delay instead of the current 6-year one? (It's 5 full seasons, which works out to 6 years.)
                              I'm not entirely sure how I'll do the Negro Leaguers yet. I can see the positives of grouping them with the MLB guys and having them on their own, so it's still up in the air. I'll have to think about it.

                              In regards to the five year wait...I just thought I'd change it up a bit.

                              Comment

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