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Future Hall of Famers #6: Players Born 1967-68 (vote for 8)

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  • Future Hall of Famers #6: Players Born 1967-68 (vote for 8)

    Note that we are voting for eight this time because the new class (born in 1968) is the best we'll see in this project, possibly the best in history.

    This is the sixth poll to survey the BBF scholars as to who among recent players we think will be in the Hall of Fame 50 years from now. From the list of players provided, vote for the eight (8) players you think are most likely to be enshrined in the Hall by the year 2062. So it’s not the guys you think are most deserving; it’s who you think the voters are most likely to elect. For more background and links to all elections go here: A New Project: Future Hall of Famers.

    One thing you need to do is to predict what the voters of the next two generations will do regarding players from the “steroids era”. Will a future Veterans Committee have a more favorable view of players like Sheffield, Sosa, et al? Or will the “known cheaters” be pariahs forever?

    A few notes on the stats below:
    --Roberto Alomar is already in the Hall so he is not included in the poll.
    --For pitchers career WAR includes their offense.
    --“4.5 Yrs” is the number of years a guy performed at an all-star level, at least 4.5 WAR. This has not been adjusted for the 1994-95 short seasons. For pitchers it does not include offense, so someone like Glavine get short-changed.
    --”WS” is career Win Shares from the annual Bill James Handbooks. For pitchers I have increased their total by 25% in an attempt to put them on the same scale as hitters. If you disagree with this, simply multiply the number shown by .80 and you will get pitchers’ “book total” of win shares.
    --”oHOFm” is the old Hall of Fame Monitor number from BB-Ref, where 70 signifies a candidate, 100 signifies a likely election and 130 signifies almost certain election.
    --”nHOFm” is the recalibration by Bill James of the Hall of Fame Monitor, where 100 signifies almost certain election.
    --Omar Vizquel was the second oldest player active in 2012.
    Code:
               Player	WAR/pos	Born	PA/IP  4.5 Yrs	 WS	oHOFm	nHOFm
         Jeff Bagwell	76.8	1968	 9431	11	388	150	107
         Frank Thomas	69.8	1968	10075	 8	405	194	121
         Kenny Lofton	64.9	1967	 9235	 7	288	 91	
       Roberto Alomar	63.1	1968	10400	 6	376	194	105
          Mike Piazza	56.5	1968	 7745	 6	325	207	120
       Gary Sheffield	56.1	1968	10947	 4	430	158	101
           Sammy Sosa	54.8	1968	 9896	 7	322	202	100
            Jeff Kent	53.9	1968	 9537	 3	339	122	 77
          John Olerud	53.5	1968	 9063	 5	301	 68	 59
        Robin Ventura	52.1	1967	 8271	 6	272	 34	
        Luis Gonzalez	48.0	1967	10531	 3	318	103	
      Bernie Williams	45.9	1968	 9053	 6	311	134	 83
      Chuck Knoblauch	42.0	1968	 7387	 4	231	 68	
         Omar Vizquel	40.5	1967	12013	 1	282	120	 48
         Mike Mussina	78.2	1968	3562.2	10	338	121	 60
          John Smoltz	65.9	1967	3473.0	 5	361	167	
         Kevin Appier	51.5	1967	2595.1	 5	236	 32	
       Trevor Hoffman	27.0	1967	1089.1	 0	235	176	112
    You are encouraged to go beyond the stats offered here in researching these players. BB-Ref provides sortable lists for players born in 1967 and 1968.
    127
    Kevin Appier
    0.00%
    0
    Jeff Bagwell
    13.39%
    17
    Luis Gonzalez
    0.00%
    0
    Trevor Hoffman
    11.02%
    14
    Jeff Kent
    9.45%
    12
    Chuck Knoblauch
    0.00%
    0
    Kenny Lofton
    0.00%
    0
    Mike Mussina
    11.02%
    14
    John Olerud
    0.00%
    0
    Mike Piazza
    13.39%
    17
    Gary Sheffield
    3.94%
    5
    John Smoltz
    12.60%
    16
    Sammy Sosa
    3.15%
    4
    Frank Thomas
    12.60%
    16
    Robin Ventura
    0.00%
    0
    Omar Vizquel
    7.09%
    9
    Bernie Williams
    2.36%
    3
    Other (please specify)
    0.00%
    0

    The poll is expired.

    Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

    Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

  • #2
    My ranking of selected players:

    1. Frank Thomas - WILL MAKE IT
    2. Jeff Bagwell - WILL MAKE IT
    3. Mike Piazza - WILL MAKE IT
    4. Roberto Alomar - already made it
    5. Gary Sheffield - tough call - looks like an uphill battle right now...
    6. Sammy Sosa - tough call - looks like an uphill battle right now...
    7. John Smoltz - WILL MAKE IT
    8. Mike Mussina - WILL MAKE IT - but it will not come quick
    9. Trevor Hoffman - WILL MAKE IT - will take some time, at least as long as it took Gossage, but probably longer
    10. Jeff Kent - WILL MAKE IT
    11. Bernie Williams - seems like a VC pick at the soonest
    12. Tom Gordon
    ------HOF---------
    13. Luis Gonzalez
    ------Tolerable----
    14. Kenny Lofton
    15. John Olerud
    16. Chuck Knoblauch
    17. Rod Beck
    18. Robin Ventura
    19. Omar Vizquel - I really have a strong feeling he'll make the Hall someday, but when I don't know.... He'll at least have a significant run for the Hall...
    20. Mo Vaughn
    21. Todd Jones
    22. Vinny Castilla
    23. Kevin Appier
    24. Tim Salmon

    I was left with Vizqul, Sheffield, and Sosa for my 8th spot. The temperature of the water right now seems to be in Vizquel's favor. Sheffield seems like he's in a slightly better position than Sosa.
    Last edited by dgarza; 11-29-2012, 02:31 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by dgarza View Post
      The temperature of the water right now seems to be in Vizquel's favor.
      Perhaps "right now", but in the long run I don't see election happening for Omar. I know there are a few loud voices supporting him at present, but I don’t see any widespread presumption that he’ll go in as you typically find with future electees. That’s exactly why his supporters feel compelled to speak out, because they know he’ll need all their pushing to make a serious run.

      This is based on several factors:
      1) Advanced metrics show him well short of HOF caliber. As time goes on this will carry more and more weight among the electorate, so that by his later years on the ballot (in the early 2030’s) I think he’ll be lucky to be drawing at a Dale Murphy level of support.
      2) He doesn’t have the Jack Morris kickers. He was not seen as the best at his position in his time and his postseason record is not strong.
      3) He was a compiler in the Harold Baines mode, never a major star. This is clear from his lack of all-star games (3, none starting) and almost nonexistent MVP support. It’s also indicated by his salary, which topped out at $6 million in one season. Black Ink: zero.
      4) When Omar hits the ballot it will be really crowded with quality candidates, making it hard to gain traction towards election.
      5) He did have extraordinary longevity, setting the record for games at SS. This may not last, with Jeter now trailing him by 178 games. Rollins has a shot also, about seven seasons away after his age-33 season.

      All Vizquel really has to sell is those 11 gold gloves. This makes him the presumptive best fielding SS of his generation. He might have a better case than Belanger or Boone, but I don’t really think he’s much closer to the Hall than they are.
      Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

      Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Freakshow View Post
        Perhaps "right now", but in the long run I don't see election happening for Omar. I know there are a few loud voices supporting him at present, but I don’t see any widespread presumption that he’ll go in as you typically find with future electees. That’s exactly why his supporters feel compelled to speak out, because they know he’ll need all their pushing to make a serious run.
        I think his "right now" will be long enough to get him many votes, at least through his 1st 5 years of eligibility. It may wane after that, but I think it's enough for warrant him an 8th spot in this poll.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by dgarza View Post
          I think his "right now" will be long enough to get him many votes, at least through his 1st 5 years of eligibility. It may wane after that, but I think it's enough for warrant him an 8th spot in this poll.
          I can easily see Vizquel becoming the next Gil Hodges (someone who gets very close without being elected). I'm hoping for more of the Harold Baines level of support, but I doubt that will happen even with the current glut of talent hitting the ballot over the next 5 years.

          Comment

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