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Johnny Sain

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  • Johnny Sain

    Johnny Sain spent 11 years in the big leagues, going 149-116 with 140 complete games, 16 shutouts, a 3.49 ERA and a 107 ERA+ in 412 games (245 starts). The hurler won 20 or more games four times and he completed 15 or more games four times as well. He was an All-Star three times and he received MVP votes four times, finishing second in voting in 1948 and fifth in 1946.

    The 1948 TSN Pitcher of the Year led the league in wins once, innings pitched once, games finished once, saves once, complete games twice, games started once and K/BB ratio once. At the dish, he led the league in sacrifice hits once and defensively, he paced the loop in pitcher putouts twice, pitcher assists once and pitcher fielding percentage once.

    He was a pretty good hitter, for a pitcher, posting a .245 batting average with three home runs and 101 RBI in 774 at-bats. He batted over .345 twice, including 1947 when he hit .346 with 37 hits, seven doubles, 13 runs scored and 18 RBI. He had 15 RBI or more in a season four times.

    In the postseason, he was also impressive, going 2-2 with a 2.64 ERA in 6 games (2 starts). He completed both the games he started in the 1948 World Series, tossing a shutout in one of the matches. He walked away with three World Series rings in his career.

    Statistically, Sain is similar to Dock Ellis, Frank Lary, Steve Gromek, Harry Gumbert, Nelson Briles, Howie Pollet, Harvey Haddix, Rip Sewell, Joe Dobson and Bob Purkey. He is ranked #214 on the Fan EloRater, ahead of General Crowder, Allie Reynolds and Danny Darwin, but behind Dan Quisenberry, Lee Meadows and Cliff Lee.

    He received votes for the Hall of Fame in 10 elections, normally toiling under 5%,though in 1975 he for some reason received a really big push and earned 34% of the vote.

    What do you think about Johnny Sain? Should he be in the Hall of Fame? Did he have Hall of Fame potential?
    9
    Yes
    11.11%
    1
    No
    33.33%
    3
    Maybe
    33.33%
    3
    Not a Hall of Famer, but he had Hall of Fame potential
    22.22%
    2

  • #2
    Sain has received some support as a contributor...he was a legendary pitching coach in addition to his better-than-average career as a player.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Cougar View Post
      Sain has received some support as a contributor...he was a legendary pitching coach in addition to his better-than-average career as a player.
      Man, that's inSAIN.

      http://instantrimshot.com/index.php?...shot&play=true

      Comment


      • #4
        We had some discussion of Sain in The Ultimate Quest for Candidates: Round 1 – The 1940’s. We named him as the 11th best HOF candidate among players whose careers centered in the 1940's. The Hall's election of Joe Gordon moves Sain into the top 10:

        Stan Hack
        Vern Stephens
        Bucky Walters
        Bob Elliott
        Charlie Keller
        Mickey Vernon
        Dom DiMaggio
        Johnny Pesky
        Cecil Travis
        Johnny Sain
        Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

        Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

        Comment


        • #5
          Kind of in the Stieb-Saberhagen mold (dominant but for too short a period and with too little an impact left in counting stat totals), for me.

          Including his tremendously influential career as a PC (Leo Mazzone's program was modeled closely on Sain's) gets him close, at least for my money.
          3 6 10 21 29 31 35 41 42 44 47

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Freakshow View Post
            We had some discussion of Sain in The Ultimate Quest for Candidates: Round 1 – The 1940’s. We named him as the 11th best HOF candidate among players whose careers centered in the 1940's. The Hall's election of Joe Gordon moves Sain into the top 10:

            Stan Hack
            Vern Stephens
            Bucky Walters
            Bob Elliott
            Charlie Keller
            Mickey Vernon
            Dom DiMaggio
            Johnny Pesky
            Cecil Travis
            Johnny Sain
            Seems kind of like a big drop-off between Travis and Sain.

            Comment


            • #7
              "Spahn and Sain and pray for rain"

              (because that has to be quoted in any discussion of JS (it's a rule))

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by westsidegrounds View Post
                "Spahn and Sain and pray for rain"

                (because that has to be quoted in any discussion of JS (it's a rule))
                Sain won 20 games 4 times and missed 3 seasons for military service, after breaking in as a 24 year old reliever. Had he been a little greater, he might have had a Dizzy Dean career. He was definitely considered a star while active, but not a Spahn, and his pitching coach credentials make him Leo Mazzone, Sr., but not a HOFer.

                Sain's career is a little like Dave Stewart's; a guy with a bit high ERA, but lots of 20 win seasons and associations with winning teams. Sain was better at his peak, although Stewart may have had the better career. If either of those guys hung on to make 200 wins, they'd have been more formidable candidates, although that hasn't quite worked for Jack Morris yet.
                Last edited by Fuzzy Bear; 12-15-2012, 01:48 PM.
                "I do not care if half the league strikes. Those who do it will encounter quick retribution. All will be suspended and I don't care if it wrecks the National League for five years. This is the United States of America and one citizen has as much right to play as another. The National League will go down the line with Robinson whatever the consequences. You will find if you go through with your intention that you have been guilty of complete madness."

                NL President Ford Frick, 1947

                Comment

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