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25 more, a new set, please rate these players for HOF worthiness

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  • 25 more, a new set, please rate these players for HOF worthiness

    As requested, we are going to keep rating perspective HOFers. I have 50 more to rate. Here are the next25 of that set. I especially like when posters add comments to their ratings.

    As usual the scale is:

    5-Why is he not in? (if he was eligible)
    4- Has a good case
    3- marginal, has some merit
    2-comes up short
    1-are you kidding me?

    Here are the players:

    Elston Howard
    Fernando Valenzuela
    Frank Howard
    Frank Tanana
    Frank Viola
    Fred Lynn
    Garret Anderson
    George Mullin
    Hal Trosky
    Ichiro Suzuki
    Jack Powell
    Jamie Moyer
    Jason Giambi
    Jerry Koosman
    Jerry Reuss
    Jim Edmonds
    Jim Fregosi
    Jimmy Rollins
    Jimmy Sheckard
    Jimmy Ryan
    Joe Carter
    John Smoltz
    John Olerud
    Jorge Posada
    This week's Giant

    #5 in games played as a Giant with 1721 , Bill Terry

  • #2
    Originally posted by JR Hart View Post
    I especially like when posters add comments to their ratings.
    I'm all over the quote thing, as you know. More fun for me that way too.

    Elston Howard - 2 - Hall of the Very Good.
    Fernando Valenzuela - 2 - Might be different if not for Lasorda's tendency to burn pitchers out. A huge part of baseball's cultural history, but the overall numbers just don't support him as a great.
    Frank Howard - 2 - Love seeing all the Dodgers here. Power and not much else.
    Frank Tanana - 2 - Better than Ryan here and there, but not enough peak.
    Frank Viola - 2 - A bit more of a case than McNally and Dave Stewart, but similarly great peak, average otherwise.
    Fred Lynn - 3 - Parallel to Rice with more drop-off. He looked like the better all-around player of the two, but couldn't sustain it.
    Garret Anderson - 3 - Had he not collapsed at the end (with the Dodgers, no less), he'd have compiled some lofty numbers.
    George Mullin - 2 - Had to look him up. Interesting career. Looks to me like his wildness did him in.
    Hal Trosky - 3 - Another 'what if' story, but health rather than injuries. Hell of a player, though. Other misfortune was to play in an era of great first basemen.
    Ichiro Suzuki - 4 - I think when all is said and done, he'll be an all-time great in two countries. Tempting to give him a '5', in fact. Maybe if he's got one more great season in him...
    Jack Powell - 2 - His biggest problem was pitching for bad teams, but gave up too many runs too.
    Jamie Moyer - 2 - Love him- he's almost exactly my age and just stopped - but mainly a compiler, ultimately. Maybe if he could've put it together a bit earlier.
    Jason Giambi - 2 - Still a bit early to tell.
    Jerry Koosman - 2 - #2 guy to Seaver when that meant something, but not enough peak in the end to escape the Hall ot VG. Favorite statistical anomalie- only major category he ever led the league in is losses, and he did it twice.
    Jerry Reuss - 2 - Good guy to have on a team, solid for a while, never a star. Not even quite HotVG.
    Jim Edmonds - 3 - 3+, really, and I might underrate him a bit, but only really top-line defensively.
    Jim Fregosi - 3 - Not quite as good as Grich.
    Jimmy Rollins - 2 - Very likeable player, but fading fast. Never quite put it together as expected, bad MVP choice the one time he won it. May surprise yet, and might be enough of a compiler in the end to make it. It's now or never.
    Jimmy Sheckard - 2 - 3rd or 4th best player on the '06 Cubs, not much else to recommend him.
    Jimmy Ryan - 3 - Slugger for the time.
    Joe Carter - 3 - HR for the ages, obviously, very good player beyond that, just before HR became way to common for his total to be meaningful.
    John Smoltz - 4 - Him or Eck for best SP/RP combo? I say him, but it's close.
    John Olerud - 3 - Think of him as an all-time OBP guy- shocked to see he only led in it once. Not quite enough else for greatness, but underrated in other areas.
    Jorge Posada - 3 - I was at the game at Yankee Stadium where he made a crass comment about the plate umpire that passed out from the heat, always hated him after that. But he was a great player (hitting C, especially) and an important cog in some classic teams.
    Found in a fortune cookie On Thursday, August 18th, 2005: "Hard words break no bones, Kind words butter no parsnips."

    1955 1959 1963 1965 1981 1988 2017?

    Comment


    • #3
      Elston Howard - 2
      Fernando Valenzuela - 2
      Frank Howard - 2
      Frank Tanana - 1 before he hurt his arm he was 3 with a bullet
      Frank Viola - 2
      Fred Lynn - 3 seems like he gets forgotten amongst all the Mattingly, Murphy, Parker - high peak then fade guys of his generation. He might have been the best of the lot. Unfortunately injuries diminished his career. Look at his 75, 78, 79, 82 seasons.
      Garret Anderson - 1
      George Mullin - 1 maybe I am giving him short shrift
      Hal Trosky - 2 anothe rinjuries guy
      Ichiro Suzuki - 4
      Jack Powell - 1 see Mullin
      Jamie Moyer - 1 maybe two but really
      Jason Giambi - 3 (if he never took roids he might be a 2 at best)
      Jerry Koosman - 3
      Jerry Reuss - 1
      Jim Edmonds - 4
      Jim Fregosi - 3 maybe a 4 I kid you not he had a great run from @1963-1970
      Jimmy Rollins - 1
      Jimmy Sheckard - 3
      Jimmy Ryan - 3
      Joe Carter - 2
      John Smoltz - 4
      John Olerud - 3
      Jorge Posada - 3 thats if you never had to suffer through actually watching him if you did then 1

      Comment


      • #4
        Elston Howard 3
        Fernando Valenzuela 2
        Frank Howard 2
        Frank Tanana 2
        Frank Viola 3 (One of the best pitchers of his generation and someone often overlooked)
        Fred Lynn 3
        Garret Anderson 1
        George Mullin 1
        Hal Trosky 1
        Ichiro Suzuki 5 (Japan + MLB ball makes him an all time great)
        Jack Powell 2
        Jamie Moyer 2 (an interesting footnote in history; not a HOFer)
        Jason Giambi 2 (PEDS issues
        Jerry Koosman 3 (had some amazing moments)
        Jerry Reuss 2
        Jim Edmonds 3 (solid defensive player)
        Jim Fregosi 3 (see Edmonds)
        Jimmy Rollins 2
        Jimmy Sheckard 4 (very underrated)
        Jimmy Ryan 3
        Joe Carter 1
        John Smoltz 4
        John Olerud 3 (excellent defense and flashes of greatness offensively)
        Jorge Posada 3 (I'm leaning towards a 4; in my personal HOF...barely)

        Comment


        • #5
          Elston Howard -2
          Fernando Valenzuela - 2
          Frank Howard - 2
          Frank Tanana - 2
          Frank Viola - 2
          Fred Lynn - 2
          Garret Anderson - 1
          George Mullin - 1
          Hal Trosky -1
          Ichiro Suzuki - 4
          Jack Powell - 1
          Jamie Moyer - 1
          Jason Giambi - 2
          Jerry Koosman - 2
          Jerry Reuss - 1
          Jim Edmonds - 4
          Jim Fregosi - 2
          Jimmy Rollins - 1
          Jimmy Sheckard -2
          Jimmy Ryan - 2
          Joe Carter - 1
          John Smoltz - 4
          John Olerud - 3
          Jorge Posada - 3
          1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

          1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

          1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


          The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
          The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

          Comment


          • #6
            Elston Howard - 1
            Fernando Valenzuela - 1
            Frank Howard - 2
            Frank Tanana - 1
            Frank Viola - 1
            Fred Lynn - 1
            Garret Anderson - 1
            George Mullin - 1
            Hal Trosky -1
            Ichiro Suzuki - 5
            Jack Powell - 2
            Jamie Moyer - 1
            Jason Giambi - 4
            Jerry Koosman - 1
            Jerry Reuss - 1
            Jim Edmonds - 3
            Jim Fregosi - 1
            Jimmy Rollins - 1
            Jimmy Sheckard - 2
            Jimmy Ryan - 3
            Joe Carter - 1
            John Smoltz - 5
            John Olerud - 1
            Jorge Posada - 2

            Comment


            • #7
              Elston Howard- 2
              Fernando Valenzuela- 2
              Frank Howard- 2
              Frank Tanana- 3
              Frank Viola- 2
              Fred Lynn- 3
              Garret Anderson- 2-
              George Mullin- 2-
              Hal Trosky- 2
              Ichiro Suzuki- 4
              Jack Powell- 3
              Jamie Moyer- 2-
              Jason Giambi- 3
              Jerry Koosman- 3
              Jerry Reuss- 2-
              Jim Edmonds- 4
              Jim Fregosi- 2+
              Jimmy Rollins- 2+
              Jimmy Sheckard- 2+
              Joe Carter- 1+
              John Smoltz- 4+
              John Olerud- 3+
              Jorge Posada- 3-

              Comment


              • #8
                Elston Howard - 2
                Fernando Valenzuela - 2
                Frank Howard - 2
                Frank Tanana - 3
                Frank Viola - 2
                Fred Lynn - 2
                Garret Anderson - 1
                George Mullin - 1
                Hal Trosky - 2
                Ichiro Suzuki - 5
                Jack Powell - 3
                Jamie Moyer - 3
                Jason Giambi - 1
                Jerry Koosman - 1
                Jerry Reuss - 1
                Jim Edmonds - 4
                Jim Fregosi - 2
                Jimmy Rollins - 3
                Jimmy Sheckard - 2
                Jimmy Ryan - 3
                Joe Carter - 2
                John Smoltz - 5
                John Olerud - 3
                Jorge Posada - 4
                "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

                Comment


                • #9
                  Elston Howard 3 - historically significant, league MVP, lots of championships
                  Fernando Valenzuela - 3 historically significant, CYA,
                  Frank Howard 3 big power numbers
                  Frank Tanana 2 on the way to HOF until 77 injury, still put together nice career
                  Frank Viola 2 not enough
                  Fred Lynn 2 not enough
                  Garret Anderson 2 not enough
                  George Mullin 2 had some flashes
                  Hal Trosky 2 comes short in big hitters era
                  Ichiro Suzuki 5 no brainer great player
                  Jack Powell 1 just no
                  Jamie Moyer 1 longevity , but I've never been impressed
                  Jason Giambi 3 some flashes
                  Jerry Koosman 3 I like him
                  Jerry Reuss 2 low end compiler
                  Jim Edmonds 3 great defender good hitter
                  Jim Fregosi 4 YES top flight SS
                  Jimmy Rollins 3 underrated, just short
                  Jimmy Sheckard 2 better than you think, but short
                  Jimmy Ryan 2 power for his time
                  Joe Carter 3 big RBI man
                  John Smoltz 4 top starter and closer
                  John Olerud 2 not enough
                  Jorge Posada 2 overrated
                  This week's Giant

                  #5 in games played as a Giant with 1721 , Bill Terry

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Elston Howard - 2 ... decent catcher.
                    Fernando Valenzuela - 2 ... decent pitcher who got off to a Hall of Fame start.
                    Frank Howard - 2 ... very good power hitter.
                    Frank Tanana - 2 ... decent compiler.
                    Frank Viola - 2 ... decent pitcher with flashes of brilliance.
                    Fred Lynn - 3 ... I wouldn't complain if he got in, but there are others far more deserving.
                    Garret Anderson - 2 ... compiler who didn't do anything super stellar to merit induction.
                    George Mullin - 2 ... I like those early 1900s, low ERA starting pitchers, but he didn't do quite enough.
                    Hal Trosky - 3 ... I've gone back and forth on him.
                    Ichiro Suzuki - 5 ... should be a first ballot HOFer.
                    Jack Powell - 2 ... with neutralized stats, his record is 300-192.
                    Jamie Moyer - 2 ... with neutralized stats his record is 206-233.
                    Jason Giambi - 3 ... Delgado-esque, just another power hitter in a power hitter era.
                    Jerry Koosman - 2 ... a steady hurler.
                    Jerry Reuss - 2 ... another steady hurler.
                    Jim Edmonds - 3 ... I'm not on the Edmonds love-train like some members are.
                    Jim Fregosi - 2 ... got off to a Hall of Fame start. Also had a decent managerial career.
                    Jimmy Rollins - 3 ... he has an outside shot of building a Hall of Fame career.
                    Jimmy Sheckard - 3 ... I guess he was pretty good back in the day.
                    Jimmy Ryan - 5 ... I think he should definitely be in.
                    Joe Carter - 3 ... great slugger for a time.
                    John Smoltz - 5 ... dynamic hurler who could start and relieve with the best of 'em.
                    John Olerud - 2 ... SABRmetric finagling makes him look like a Hall of Famer...I don't see it.
                    Jorge Posada - 3 ... he has that Yankees aura around him.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Elston Howard - 2
                      Fernando Valenzuela - 1
                      Frank Howard - 2
                      Frank Tanana - 3
                      Frank Viola - 2
                      Fred Lynn - 2
                      Garret Anderson - 1
                      George Mullin - 2
                      Hal Trosky - 1
                      Ichiro Suzuki - 5
                      Jack Powell - 2
                      Jamie Moyer - 1
                      Jason Giambi - 3
                      Jerry Koosman - 2
                      Jerry Reuss - 2
                      Jim Edmonds - 4
                      Jim Fregosi - 2
                      Jimmy Rollins - 3
                      Jimmy Sheckard - 2
                      Jimmy Ryan - 2
                      Joe Carter - 2
                      John Smoltz - 5
                      John Olerud - 4
                      Jorge Posada - 3

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Elston Howard - 2
                        Fernando Valenzuela - 2
                        Frank Howard - 2
                        Frank Tanana - 3
                        Frank Viola - 2
                        Fred Lynn - 3
                        Garret Anderson - 1
                        George Mullin - 2
                        Hal Trosky - 2
                        Ichiro Suzuki - 5
                        Jack Powell - 2
                        Jamie Moyer - 3
                        Jason Giambi - 3
                        Jerry Koosman - 3
                        Jerry Reuss - 2
                        Jim Edmonds - 4
                        Jim Fregosi - 3
                        Jimmy Rollins - 2
                        Jimmy Sheckard - 3
                        Jimmy Ryan - 2
                        Joe Carter - 1
                        John Smoltz - 5
                        John Olerud - 4
                        Jorge Posada - 3
                        The Hall of Stats: An alternate Hall of Fame populated by a mathematical formula.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Elston Howard 2 - Behind Bill Freehan, certainly. A very good catcher in a weak era for AL catchers.
                          Fernando Valenzuela 2 Good pitcher, national hero, jockey. Clearly behind Stieb, Morris and probably Guidry for pitchers who excelled in the late 70's through late 80's.
                          Frank Howard - 2 Big slugger, just wasn't Killebrew, which is not a crime.
                          Frank Tanana 1 - Looked like Nolan Ryan for a bit, learned how to be crafty. Nice guy to have but no HOFer.
                          Frank Viola - 1 Looked as good as anyone at times with Minnesota. Another Met off the mark.
                          Fred Lynn 2 Almost as regarded as Garvey for a while. Became a solid journeyman.
                          Garret Anderson 1 - Second-tier star when there were a lot of second-tier stars.
                          George Mullin - 3- Best pitcher for some great Tiger teams. Surpassed by contemporaries on bigger stage.
                          Hal Trosky 2 - Good for a short while.
                          Ichiro Suzuki 4 - So he didn't walk or hit for much power. He did everything else.
                          Jack Powell 1 - Meh
                          Jamie Moyer 1 - Solid, unspectacular. Jack Quinn.
                          Jason Giambi 2 - Not enough time at the top
                          Jerry Koosman - 3 Bad Mets teams harmed him.
                          Jerry Reuss 2 - A bit behind Blyleven
                          Jim Edmonds 3 - Some ighlights, some good numbers.
                          Jim Fregosi 1 - Long career in an era of no-hit all field shortstops.
                          Jimmy Rollins 2 - A long, productive career will help him.
                          Jimmy Sheckard 3 - Right behind Sherry Magee.
                          Jimmy Ryan 3- Would be in if the voters didn't suddenly become stingy around WWII.
                          Joe Carter 2 - Big numbers, but a deeper look at how he did it really hurts him.
                          John Smoltz - 4 But only with his success as a closer. Not as good as Mussina as a starter.
                          John Olerud - 2 Almost there, but not quite.
                          Jorge Posada 2- Good Yankee career. Voters haven't been impressed with good Yankee careers.
                          Dave Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
                          Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
                          Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
                          Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
                          Robin Bill Ernie JEDI

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            not a very highly rated group so far:

                            Ichiro Suzuki 4.58
                            John Smoltz 4.42
                            Jim Edmonds 3.50
                            Jimmy Ryan 2.83
                            Jorge Posada 2.83
                            John Olerud 2.75
                            Jason Giambi 2.58
                            Jimmy Sheckard 2.50
                            Fred Lynn 2.42
                            Jerry Koosman 2.33
                            Jim Fregosi 2.33
                            Elston Howard 2.08
                            Frank Howard 2.08
                            Frank Tanana 2.08
                            Jimmy Rollins 2.08
                            Fernando Valenzuela 1.92
                            Frank Viola 1.92
                            Hal Trosky 1.83
                            Jack Powell 1.83
                            Joe Carter 1.83
                            George Mullin 1.67
                            Jamie Moyer 1.67
                            Jerry Reuss 1.67
                            Garret Anderson 1.42
                            This week's Giant

                            #5 in games played as a Giant with 1721 , Bill Terry

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Elston Howard- 2
                              Fernando Valenzuela- 3
                              Frank Howard- 3
                              Frank Tanana- 2
                              Frank Viola- 2
                              Fred Lynn- 3
                              Garret Anderson- 1
                              George Mullin- 1
                              Hal Trosky- 2
                              Ichiro Suzuki- 4
                              Jack Powell- 1
                              Jamie Moyer- 2
                              Jason Giambi- 4
                              Jerry Koosman- 2
                              Jerry Reuss- 1
                              Jim Edmonds- 3
                              Jim Fregosi- 1
                              Jimmy Rollins- 1
                              Jimmy Sheckard- 2 (Extremely odd career path might I add)
                              Jimmy Ryan- 1
                              Joe Carter- 1
                              John Smoltz- 4
                              John Olerud- 3
                              Jorge Posada- 3
                              Rest in Peace Jose Fernandez (1992-2016)

                              Comment

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