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Hey BBF experts, here's 25 more players to rank!

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  • Hey BBF experts, here's 25 more players to rank!

    Here you have it, more perspective HOFers to rate. Thanks for all the parcipitation. I just posted the rankings of the first 175. As usual the scale is:

    5-Why is he not in? (if he was eligible)
    4- Has a good case
    3- marginal, has some merit
    2-comes up short
    1-are you kidding me?

    Here are the players. As always, I really like when posters add comments to their rankings.

    Juan Pierre
    Juan Gonzalez
    Ken Griffey Jr
    Lance Berkman
    Larry Jackson
    Luis Gonzalez
    Matt Williams
    Miguel Tejada
    Mike Garcia
    Mike Piazza
    Randy Myers
    Reggie Smith
    Riggs Stephenson
    Rob Nen
    Robin Ventura
    Rocky Colavito
    Ron Cey
    Steve Finley
    Thurman Munson
    Tommy Bridges
    Tony Fernandez
    Trevor Hoffman
    Troy Percival
    Wes Ferrell
    Wilbur Wood
    This week's Giant

    #5 in games played as a Giant with 1721 , Bill Terry

  • #2
    Juan Pierre - 1 (is O) an option?
    Juan Gonzalez -2
    Ken Griffey Jr - 5
    Lance Berkman - 3
    Larry Jackson -2
    Luis Gonzalez -2
    Matt Williams -2
    Miguel Tejada -2
    Mike Garcia -1
    Mike Piazza -5
    Randy Myers -1
    Reggie Smith -3
    Riggs Stephenson -1
    Rob Nen -1
    Robin Ventura -3
    Rocky Colavito -2
    Ron Cey -2
    Steve Finley -2
    Thurman Munson -3
    Tommy Bridges -2 (maybe 3 - I might change this)
    Tony Fernandez -2
    Trevor Hoffman -3
    Troy Percival -1
    Wes Ferrell -4 (unimaginably underrated - massive 7-8 year pitching/hitting peak)
    Wilbur Wood -2
    1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

    1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

    1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


    The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
    The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

    Comment


    • #3
      Juan Pierre - 1
      Juan Gonzalez -2
      Ken Griffey Jr -5
      Lance Berkman - 2
      Larry Jackson - 2
      Luis Gonzalez - 2
      Matt Williams - 2
      Miguel Tejada - 2
      Mike Garcia - 1
      Mike Piazza - 5
      Randy Myers - 1
      Reggie Smith - 3
      Riggs Stephenson - 1
      Rob Nen - 1
      Robin Ventura - 2
      Rocky Colavito - 2
      Ron Cey - 2
      Steve Finley - 2
      Thurman Munson - 3
      Tommy Bridges - 3 (deserves some WWII credit)
      Tony Fernandez - 2
      Trevor Hoffman - 3
      Troy Percival - 1
      Wes Ferrell - 4
      Wilbur Wood - 2
      Last edited by leecemark; 01-05-2013, 08:12 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Juan Pierre- 1
        Juan Gonzalez- 2
        Ken Griffey Jr.- 5
        Lance Berkman- 3
        Larry Jackson- 3
        Luis Gonzalez- 2
        Matt Williams- 2
        Miguel Tejada- 2
        Mike Garcia- 1
        Mike Piazza- 5
        Randy Myers- 1
        Reggie Smith- 4 (tremendously underrated)
        Riggs Stephenson- 2
        Robb Nen- 1
        Robin Ventura- 3
        Rocky Colavito- 2
        Ron Cey- 3
        Steve Finley- 2
        Thurman Munson- 3
        Tommy Bridges- 3
        Tony Fernandez- 2
        Trevor Hoffman- 3
        Troy Percival- 1
        Wes Ferrell- 4 (his hitting raises him from a 3 to a 4)
        Wilbur Wood- 3

        Comment


        • #5
          Juan Pierre - 1 - Speed and a games streak that never should have happened is not enough. A very average player or less otherwise.
          Juan Gonzalez 3 - I value the RBI more than some, clearly. Still, short peak and PEDs tempt me to lower it.
          Ken Griffey Jr - 5 - No-brainer unless any new doubts arise.
          Lance Berkman - 3 - The very definition of borderline? Counting stats not impressive, everything else is. A better hitter than Gil Hodges, as much as I hate to admit it.
          Larry Jackson - 1 - A workhorse, but not much else. Really just a one-year peak.
          Luis Gonzalez -2 - Other than that one season for which doubts will always follow him, he's solid and unspectacular. I liked him as a player despite his Dodger-killing ways, but he falls short of the, say, Chet Lemon benchmark, let alone the HoF one.
          Matt Williams -2 - Good run-producer and underrated for other parts of his game besides the obvious. Still Hall of the Very Good.
          Miguel Tejada -2 - Quick fizzle. Still, nobody would have put him ahead of Nomar when they started, so something to be said for him.
          Mike Garcia - 2 - Far too much 'what if' to seriously consider, but made the most of what little time he had.
          Mike Piazza -5 - Unless the doubts amount to more than they have so far.
          Randy Myers -2 - Couldn't stay healthy long enough to meet the increased benchmarks for counting stats, but as good as Lee Smith most of the time.
          Reggie Smith -3 - Loved him as a Dodger, if he'd had a more easygoing personality he might've ended up managing them.
          Riggs Stephenson -3 - Late start and early end is all that keeps him out.
          Rob Nen -1 - Add him to the growing list of closers that couldn't keep it up for a full decade. Anything more than 5 years is impressive, but in no way hall-worthy.
          Robin Ventura -2 - Slightly below Ron Cey.:hyper: The Torre/Hodges benchmark doesn't bode well for managing to help his case, even if he succeeds as well as I think he might.
          Rocky Colavito -2 - If ever a player could've benefitted from PEDs.
          Ron Cey - 2 - 2+, really, but still not enough ultimately.
          Steve Finley - 1 - Nice peak, not enough of it.
          Thurman Munson - 2 - If he'd only been a bit nicer to writers, might have gotten the Clemente treatment...
          Tommy Bridges -2 - Slightly better than Dave McNally or Dave Stewart, since he was better than average outside of it, but peak still too short.
          Tony Fernandez -1 - Played in the wrong era.
          Trevor Hoffman - 5 - You either put closers in or you don't. I say you do.
          Troy Percival -1 - But quick burnouts are far too common for anything less than a decade to impress. See also Nen, Robb.
          Wes Ferrell - 3 - Better than many pitchers in there, of course. And a throwback to an era when pitchers could help their own cause with the bat.
          Wilbur Wood -2 - Amazing peak, but not enough of it ultimately. Maybe if he could've held on longer.
          Found in a fortune cookie On Thursday, August 18th, 2005: "Hard words break no bones, Kind words butter no parsnips."

          1955 1959 1963 1965 1981 1988 2017?

          Comment


          • #6
            Juan Pierre - 1
            Juan Gonzalez - 2
            Ken Griffey Jr -5
            Lance Berkman - 4
            Larry Jackson - 1
            Luis Gonzalez - 2
            Matt Williams - 2
            Miguel Tejada - 4
            Mike Garcia - 1
            Mike Piazza - 5
            Randy Myers - 2
            Reggie Smith - 3
            Riggs Stephenson - 1
            Rob Nen - 2
            Robin Ventura - 1
            Rocky Colavito - 3
            Ron Cey - 2
            Steve Finley - 1
            Thurman Munson - 1
            Tommy Bridges - 2
            Tony Fernandez - 2
            Trevor Hoffman - 5
            Troy Percival - 2
            Wes Ferrell - 2
            Wilbur Wood - 2
            Last edited by dgarza; 01-05-2013, 02:13 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Juan Pierre 1
              Juan Gonzalez 1
              Ken Griffey Jr 5
              Lance Berkman 3
              Larry Jackson 1
              Luis Gonzalez 2
              Matt Williams 2
              Miguel Tejada 2
              Mike Garcia 1
              Mike Piazza 5
              Randy Myers 2
              Reggie Smith 1
              Riggs Stephenson 1
              Rob Nen 1
              Robin Ventura 2
              Rocky Colavito 2
              Ron Cey 2
              Steve Finley 1
              Thurman Munson 3
              Tommy Bridges 4
              Tony Fernandez 2
              Trevor Hoffman 4
              Troy Percival 1
              Wes Ferrell 4
              Wilbur Wood 2
              WAR? Prove it!

              Trusted Traders: ttmman21, Dalkowski110, BoofBonser26, Kearns643, HudsonHarden, Extra Innings, MadHatter, Mike D., J.P., SShifflett

              Comment


              • #8
                Juan Pierre 1
                Juan Gonzalez 2
                Ken Griffey Jr 5
                Lance Berkman 3
                Larry Jackson 2
                Luis Gonzalez 2
                Matt Williams 1
                Miguel Tejada 2
                Mike Garcia 1
                Mike Piazza 5
                Randy Myers 1
                Reggie Smith 3
                Riggs Stephenson 1
                Robb Nen 1
                Robin Ventura 2
                Rocky Colavito 2
                Ron Cey 2
                Steve Finley 2
                Thurman Munson 2
                Tommy Bridges 2
                Tony Fernandez 1
                Trevor Hoffman 4
                Troy Percival 1
                Wes Ferrell 3
                Wilbur Wood 2
                Rest in Peace Jose Fernandez (1992-2016)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Juan Pierre 1 i like him more as a roto/fantasy player than i do as a hall candidate.
                  Juan Gonzalez 2 borderline candidate, steroids rules him on the wrong side.
                  Ken Griffey Jr 5 his star faded fast after his first year in cincinnati. I'm not sure if the centerfielder we traded didn't have a better finish (cameron) than he did, however his work in the 90s (all century player honors, clean image) first or second ballot
                  Lance Berkman 3 He needs to finish strong to earn this 3. He just signed with the rangers and i think he can turn it on again. He seemed lost without passion last year, so he will need to recharge rededicate to get there
                  Larry Jackson 1
                  Luis Gonzalez 3 he had some unbelievable seasons coupled with a good career. he's a head scratcher, not sure if he compares to vern stephens albeit it at a different position
                  Matt Williams 3 I can't believe he was one and done in balloting-that was way too harsh.
                  Miguel Tejada 2 one of the big 4 with nomar, arod and jeter. I think he falls short of 2 of the 3
                  Mike Garcia 1
                  Mike Piazza 5 one of the most prolific hitting catchers of his era. his defense was awful, but i'm not sure the voters care.
                  Randy Myers 3 i think myers has a very strong case and i was tempted to put 4, but i checked my personal feelings
                  Reggie Smith 2 he's good, belongs in the very good hall of fame
                  Riggs Stephenson 1
                  Rob Nen 1 had serious talent, not enough longevity for me in his role
                  Robin Ventura 3 had hof potential, but didn't quite get there for me, perhaps near ron cey
                  Rocky Colavito 3 had hof potential
                  Ron Cey 3 great threat posted earlier between cey and garvey which made me rethink cey a bit, but i still take garvey over cey's case. it wouldn't offend me if he was selected.
                  Steve Finley 4 I may be overrating him a bit, but he scores very well in the system that i use and he was a ball player with speed and a power combination that played for a number of winning ball clubs.
                  Thurman Munson 3 i'm not an advocate for him, but i can see where he was a legitimate talent, his untimely death was unfortunate.
                  Tommy Bridges 1
                  Tony Fernandez 2
                  Trevor Hoffman 5 one of the best closers ever
                  Troy Percival 2
                  Wes Ferrell 1
                  Wilbur Wood 2

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by henrich View Post
                    Randy Myers 3
                    Steve Finley 4
                    Tommy Bridges 1
                    Wes Ferrell 1
                    Always interesting at the ol' BBF.
                    1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                    1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                    1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                    The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                    The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      if we all had the same opinions it wouldn't be as interesting i don't count pitchers hitting nor do i count hitters pitching-if that helps explain ferrell for you.
                      Last edited by henrich; 01-05-2013, 06:16 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Juan Pierre - 2
                        Juan Gonzalez - 5
                        Ken Griffey Jr - 5
                        Lance Berkman - 3
                        Larry Jackson - 1
                        Luis Gonzalez - 2
                        Matt Williams - 2
                        Miguel Tejada - 2
                        Mike Garcia - 1
                        Mike Piazza - 5
                        Randy Myers - 1
                        Reggie Smith - 2
                        Riggs Stephenson - 1
                        Rob Nen - 1
                        Robin Ventura - 2
                        Rocky Colavito - 2
                        Ron Cey - 2
                        Steve Finley - 2
                        Thurman Munson - 1
                        Tommy Bridges - 1
                        Tony Fernandez - 1
                        Trevor Hoffman - 3
                        Troy Percival - 2
                        Wes Ferrell - 1
                        Wilbur Wood - 1
                        My dream ballpark dimensions
                        LF: 388 Feet...Height 37 Feet...LCF: 455 Feet...CF: 542 Feet...Height 35 Feet
                        RCF: 471 Feet...RF: 400 Feet...Height 60 Feet
                        Location....San Diego

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by henrich View Post
                          if we all had the same opinions it wouldn't be as interesting i don't count pitchers hitting nor do i count hitters pitching-if that helps explain ferrell for you.
                          How can you pretend all of those hits and RBIs and contributions to his team winning never happened? In his prime, Wes Ferrell allowed his teams to be the only team to have a DH every 4th game. Incredibly real and incredibly valuable. So when Rick Ferrell gets a big hit we credit him, but when Wes does the same thing we pretend it didn't happen. Difference of opinion for sure. I couldn't possibly disagree more with a philosophy that this one.
                          1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                          1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                          1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                          The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                          The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Juan Pierre - 1
                            Juan Gonzalez - 2 sorry but I am biased against PED users
                            Ken Griffey Jr - 5
                            Lance Berkman - 4 a classic rate stat hero, counting stat zero - well not quite but by rate stats he is a top 15-20 or so LF
                            Larry Jackson - 2
                            Luis Gonzalez - 1 one dubious season and career spike
                            Matt Williams - 4 he really just faded fast or so it seemed, arguably a top 15-20 3B
                            Miguel Tejada - 2, see Gonzalez, Juan
                            Mike Garcia - 1 really good and undernoted but career too short
                            Mike Piazza - 5 he was way better than Juan or Tejada should the whispers be true (and I dodn't knwo that that makes sense)
                            Randy Myers - 2 only because I liked him I 'm not a one inning closer guy
                            Reggie Smith - 4
                            Riggs Stephenson - 1 high BA in a high BA era with little else
                            Rob Nen - 1 pfft to the one inning closer
                            Robin Ventura - 3 maybe a 4 but he seems to get more credit for defense than a glance at the raw data woudl have you think, at any rate along with Cey and Wiliams top 15-25 is #B deserves at least a thought
                            Rocky Colavito - 3 I think he was overshadowed and has a legendary arm
                            Ron Cey - 3 see Ventura
                            Steve Finley - 2 compiler with a spike in ability during a dubious
                            Thurman Munson - 3
                            Tommy Bridges - 3
                            Tony Fernandez - 3 he was here and there the best SS in the AL during the mid 80s
                            Trevor Hoffman - 3 I'm not crazy about this but he is at the top of the heap of one inning closers (Mariano is in a category of his own)
                            Troy Percival - 1
                            Wes Ferrell - 4 high peak, good bat, limited IP
                            Wilbur Wood - 3 some of those early 70s seasons were out of this world. near 400 IP sub 2.00 ERA IIRC. Perception suffers from being a knuckleballer and BMI challenged

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Matthew C. View Post
                              In his prime, Wes Ferrell allowed his teams to be the only team to have a DH every 4th game.
                              Well, let's not pretend that Ferrell was the only one out there doing this. There were several other teams that had, in their prime, similar hitting pitchers. Red Ruffing, Red Lucas, George Uhle, Jack Scott, Walter Johnson, etc.

                              I don't mean to dismiss his offensive value, for he was likely the best hitting pitcher of his time, but let's give credit were credit is due to these other pitchers.

                              Comment

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