If Frank Thomas gets in next year 1st ballot, I shout "Hypocrisy!"

[redban]

Mike Piazza, Jeff Bagwell > Frank Thomas

[Bigfoot 88]

The voters are fools collectively. That said I still want him to get in ASAP, as I do with all deserving players.

His 7 year run was ridiculous.

In 1016 games he had a .330/.452/.604 line with a 182 OPS+

Not many seven year runs have been better or as good.

Ruth: 1015 games/.353/.482/.717/212 OPS+
Pujols: 1081 games/.337/.435/.640/178 OPS+
Williams: (Removing war years) 1035 games/.356/.496/.647/200 OPS+
Bonds: 974 games/.324/.504/.731/221 OPS+
Gehrig: 1075 games/.350/.457/.657/190 OPS+
Hornsby: 983 games/.386/.456/.634/195 OPS+
Mante: 1017 games/.316/.448/.617/190 OPS+

I could go on but you get the picture, his prime ranks with the elites especially if you factor in LQ. Some others might want to post more great 7 years runs.

[Nerdlinger]

The voters are fools collectively.

Many individually as well.

[JR Hart]

Mike Piazza, Jeff Bagwell > Frank Thomas

His stats don't top Bonds. Why should Thomas get in?

Oh, I know he's a "we don't think he roided" guy, which top a " rumors about roids" guy, which tops a " Suspected" roider, which tops a "known" roider.

The bad part is that virtually everbody is sucked into this insanity. LOL

[Sultan_1895-1948]

His stats don't top Bonds. Why should Thomas get in?

Oh, I know he's a "we don't think he roided" guy, which top a " rumors about roids" guy, which tops a " Suspected" roider, which tops a "known" roider.

The bad part is that virtually everbody is sucked into this insanity. LOL

Bonds apologists attempting to suck others, Thomas and Griffey included, down with him in insane alright.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

His stats don't top Bonds. Why should Thomas get in?

Oh, I know he's a "we don't think he roided" guy, which top a " rumors about roids" guy, which tops a " Suspected" roider, which tops a "known" roider.

The bad part is that virtually everbody is sucked into this insanity. LOL

Two reasons, a doping calendar with travel dates to different NL cities. The dates and the cities is a match for the Giants schedule that month. Calendar initialled BLB. Could it just be a coincidence, calendar perfect match for Giant schedule that month and the BLB on the doping calendar. Coincidence........I doubt that.

Barry Balco lab test, positive at least twice. Greg Anderson saved Barry's rear, failure to testify block prosecution from entering test results.
Tested positive for amphetemines in 2006.
And how could we forget some peaks after age 35 that Ruth and Williams in their prime could not match. OPEN eyes, better yet open your mind.
What does it take to convince some, do we need a video.
The Barry groupies should just give it up, trying to deny he was a user.
The only defense for them to put up is.........OK he used but we don't care, that I could accept.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Do we know if Thomas used, no way to really know, maybe he did, but we could say that about any player.
Speaking for myself, I need more info and to this point I haven't seen anything to convince me.
For some to say he looks like it, I think he used, thats not enough.
Bonds and Thomas, at this point two different cases.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

The only defense for them to put up is.........OK he used but we don't care, that I could accept.

LOL yes, even that would be acceptable. I've heard a couple say that but then it's quickly followed with comments that insinuate "they didn't really help him."

[GiambiJuice]

Thomas had a pretty amazing revival with the Oakland A's as a 38 year old. Finished 4th in the MVP voting that year.

Hmmmm...

[J W]

Do we know if Thomas used, no way to really know, maybe he did, but we could say that about any player.
Speaking for myself, I need more info and to this point I haven't seen anything to convince me.
For some to say he looks like it, I think he used, thats not enough.
Bonds and Thomas, at this point two different cases.

Thank you. But it didn't help Bagwell or Piazza.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Thomas had a pretty amazing revival with the Oakland A's as a 38 year old. Finished 4th in the MVP voting that year.

Hmmmm...

And we know MVP voting means everything. That was a good year for a NATURAL 38 year old but it was sort of a "career achievement" type vote for Big Hurt. His numbers were pedestrian. He hit .270. A number he had bested eleven times prior. His .381 OBP that year, he had bested thirteen times prior, and his SA of .545 he had bested ten times pior. Yeah, he really lit the world on fire that year. His overall line was well below his career avg. His WAR of 2.8 was WELL below everyone in the MVP voting, and wasn't ahead of anyone until you get to #14 Giambi at 2.5.

Check Bonds' numbers at age 38...hell, even at age 39, compared to his career avg. Not just his natural career through 1998. No, no, go ahead and include the cartoonish and extremely fraudulent PED numbers and it's still absurd. Try as people might, there is no comparison to the joke that is Bonds' career. The voters spoke loud and clear.

[redban]

How did Bonds get so deep in this topic. I mention only Piazza and Bagwell in the original post.

If Piazza and Bagwell are kept out, then Thomas should be as well. He is no different from those two - he was a power hitter during the steroid era with nothing but speculation surrounding him.

We shouldn't have a double standard.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

How did Bonds get so deep in this topic. I mention only Piazza and Bagwell in the original post.

If Piazza and Bagwell are kept out, then Thomas should be as well. He is no different from those two - he was a power hitter during the steroid era with nothing but speculation surrounding him.

We shouldn't have a double standard.

Really? Bagwell is known to have used Andro (legal at the time) but perhaps voters are suspect for one reason or another. Piazza has had rumors surrounding him for quite some time, and not just from him having "back-acne" as a 30+ year old. He wasn't exactly a star prospect. Perhaps voters are suspect for one reason or another. With Thomas, and Griffey, there is nothing, on any level for voters to suspect.

btw; guess how many votes Magglio, Brett Boone, Brady Anderson, Manny, etc will receive. There's a reason. Writers aren't just morons scribbling on paper. It's their life. They have connections and talk to people who have talked to people. It goes deeper than you realize. The voting speaks for itself.

[chicagowhitesox1173]

In 2002 a writer asked Frank Thomas why he had such an off year. I think he had 29 homeruns nd 92 rbi's but he replied in a not so kind manner "because im not on the *^%$ and everyone else is on the *%$#". It was something along those lines and as far as I know he was always for drug testing. I think the union even told him to pipe down about testing once. If he did use I think it would have been early in his career after he got out of Auburn U.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

In 2002 a writer asked Frank Thomas why he had such an off year. I think he had 29 homeruns nd 92 rbi's but he replied in a not so kind manner "because im not on the *^%$ and everyone else is on the *%$#". It was something along those lines and as far as I know he was always for drug testing. I think the union even told him to pipe down about testing once. If he did use I think it would have been early in his career after he got out of Auburn U.

Exactly. See people are quick to say, it wasn't against the rules of baseball. Well, technically, Fay Vincent sent a memo out to every club in 1994, because he sensed a problem, that steroids were against the rules of baseball. Baseball wanted testing for some time. Why couldn't they have it? The players union. And one of the only players I can remember who spoke out strongly FOR TESTING was Thomas.

Griffey also has been outspoken at every turn about how he did things the right way, and I believe him. Nothing about his career suggests otherwise.