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Cacophony and Confusion: Hall Must Clarify the Rules

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  • Cacophony and Confusion: Hall Must Clarify the Rules

    It is my belief that the HOF rules are being generally misinterpreted. Well, more uninterpreted, as the steroid-hysteria has created much more variation among the voters in how these rules are applied. While some evolution is inevitable, the current situation is radically discomfiting much of the electorate, putting voters at polar opposites in how they interpret the rules. The consensus is breaking down, which I think is a serious problem that is only just beginning to dawn on the HOF’s board of directors.

    Due to this negligent oversight, the HOF rules are transmuting into a polymorphic state making the process increasingly untenable; they can mean what anyone wants them to mean. The rancor, confusion, and frustration are at unprecedented and increasing levels. There can be no rational discussions of candidates’ qualifications because the shiny peel of my apple is incomparable to the juiciness inside your orange; there is less and less agreement about what makes players worthy or unworthy for the HOF. Voters are not just arguing their preferences in assessing players, but are battling over how the rules should be interpreted. Clearly, the Hall needs to step up and clarify the rules.

    Those rules specify six criteria to be considered by voters:
    the player's record
    playing ability
    integrity
    sportsmanship
    character
    contributions to the team(s) on which the player played

    The Hall has left it entirely open to interpretation from there. Sooner or later that was going to cause trouble and that’s where we are now.

    Well, fools rush in, as they say, so I’ll take a stab at interpreting what I think was intended by this set of rules. This interpretation is based upon some of my own assumptions, the historic environment in which they were generated 70+ years ago, as well as their meaning as evidenced by voting results.

    1) Player’s record – This is basically the WAR question. How good was he? What does the record tell us?
    2) Playing Ability – This is the Narrative question. Is there anything beyond the record to indicate he was better or worse than that? Was he feared/respected by other players and media? Did he win awards? Did circumstances beyond his control reduce his playing record from what it should have been?
    3) Integrity – Did he gamble? This was THE question back in the reign of Judge Landis. More generally, Did he do anything to damage baseball’s public image? The media’s/Congress’ newfound outrage against PED users has made this a pertinent question for some candidates.
    4) Sportsmanship – This is the popularity question. Did the fans like him? Did the media? Was he a Sport?
    5) Character – This means character as related to professional baseball. Did he show up every day ready to help his team win? Did he stay in shape? Did he play hard? Was he sober? These days, this criterion is popularly misapplied to non-baseball related behavior. Note that the very first HOF class had men of fairly suspect personal morals. It’s clear to me that individual’s peccadilloes are not what Cooperstown wants voters to consider when assessing candidates.
    6) Contributions to the team – This is the leadership question. Did he have a positive influence on his teammates? Back in the day, players traveled long distances in close quarters. Did he get along? What do his teammates say about him? Collecting lots of rings is often (mis)interpreted as evidence of this.

    That’s how I see it. Anyway, it’s exactly what the HOF needs to do – define each criterion so that voters can work from the same base.

    You want a simple system? Assume that these six criteria were intended to carry equal weight. (Or come up with your own weighting scheme, if you’re so inclined.) Rank each candidate 1 to 10 in every category. A “5” is an average hall of famer, so the average HOFer should score a total of 30 points.

    Here’s Barry Bonds:
    10 - Player's record: an all-timer
    10 - Playing ability: terribly feared, IBB totals are off the charts. Was black-balled out of the game, record would have been more.
    2 – Integrity: one of the guys at the center of the Game’s current black eye, although this status is not entirely of his making.
    2 – Sportsmanship: often acted like a jerk, but nobody loves Goliath.
    5 – Character: not quite what one thinks of as a “Team Player”. Fortunately, baseball doesn’t demand this as much as other sports.
    4 - Contributions to the team(s) on which the player played: seen as selfish, but took a serious approach to the game. Generally a positive example for his teammates, AFAIK.

    So I have him with 33 points. YMMV. He should be in, according to my interpretation of the Hall’s voting criteria.
    Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

    Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Freakshow View Post
    Due to this negligent oversight, the HOF rules are transmuting into a polymorphic state making the process increasingly untenable; they can mean what anyone wants them to mean.
    Perhaps a bit today, but this is also what has allowed not-so-greats an easier entrance into the Hall as well.

    Comment


    • #3
      I don't see the need to make any changes so soon.

      Consider these periods of BBWAA HOF inductees...

      Last 5 years:
      2009-2013
      Inductees : 6
      90.0+% Inductees : 2
      Average % at election : 84.20%

      Last few 10 year periods:
      2004-2013
      Inductees : 14
      90.0+% Inductees : 5
      Average % at election : 85.75%

      1994-2003
      Inductees : 14
      90.0+% Inductees : 5
      Average % at election : 86.21%

      1984-1993
      Inductees : 19
      90.0+% Inductees : 6
      Average % at election : 85.13%

      1974-1983
      Inductees : 15
      90.0+% Inductees : 3
      Average % at election : 85.75%
      Last edited by dgarza; 01-17-2013, 08:10 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by dgarza View Post
        I don't see the need to make any changes so soon.

        Consider these periods of BBWAA HOF inductees...

        Last 5 years:
        2009-2013
        Inductees : 6
        90.0+% Inductees : 2
        Average % at election : 84.20%

        Last few 10 year periods:
        2004-2013
        Inductees : 14
        90.0+% Inductees : 5
        Average % at election : 85.75%

        1994-2003
        Inductees : 14
        90.0+% Inductees : 5
        Average % at election : 86.21%

        1984-1993
        Inductees : 19
        90.0+% Inductees : 6
        Average % at election : 85.13%

        1974-1983
        Inductees : 15
        90.0+% Inductees : 3
        Average % at election : 85.75%
        The only relevant stat I see here is the number of inductees. And it supports the idea that the whole process is stagnating. Despite the increased numbers of qualified candidates (due to expansion) the number of inductees is at a low point. In the past ten years, the BBWAA has elected 14 players. Since annual elections resumed in 1966 only one 10-year period has seen fewer than that (13 from 1993-2002).
        Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

        Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Freakshow View Post
          The only relevant stat I see here is the number of inductees. And it supports the idea that the whole process is stagnating. Despite the increased numbers of qualified candidates (due to expansion) the number of inductees is at a low point. In the past ten years, the BBWAA has elected 14 players. Since annual elections resumed in 1966 only one 10-year period has seen fewer than that (13 from 1993-2002).
          Is your concern based only/mostly just 1 year (2013)?

          If we would have had this discussion last year, we would say that there have been 16 inductees in the last 10 years (2003-2012), which seems pretty consistent.

          2004-2013 - 14
          2003-2012 - 16
          2002-2011 - 16
          2001-2010 - 16
          2000-2009 - 16
          1999-2008 - 18
          1998-2007 - 18
          1997-2006 - 17
          1996-2005 - 16
          1995-2004 - 15
          1994-2003 - 14
          1993-2002 - 13
          1992-2001 - 14
          1991-2000 - 15
          1990-1999 - 15
          1989-1998 - 14

          Outside of this past voting weirdness in Jan., it looks like the Hall has been voting slightly more players recently. It used to be 13-15 inductees every 10 years. Now 16 seems to be the norm.

          Of course, some would suggest that expansion does not increase qualified candidates, but increases lesser qualified candidates.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by dgarza View Post
            Is your concern based only/mostly just 1 year (2013)?
            I would say that the landscape has changed a lot in that year's time and that we're in a new era. An increased number of qualified players will be passed over by the BBWAA. Some will miss this fact because the BBWAA should be able to maintain its usual rate of electees due to the unprecedented quality of candidates becoming eligible in the next few years.
            Originally posted by dgarza View Post
            Of course, some would suggest that expansion does not increase qualified candidates, but increases lesser qualified candidates.
            Due to expansion there has to be more players meeting the standards that historically have led to HOF election. You're saying that you're OK with employing a higher standard from now on for election than the established one, and perhaps most people agree with that feeling. But don't pretend it's not happening.

            Remember also that the established standard is 2.6 players enshrined per birth year. Your chart shows a BBWAA rate of 1.6 per year, meaning that the veterans committee will need to be counted on to elect another player per every one of these years, that a huge backlog of deserving players is already building. The VC has considered, and rejected, every player retiring from 1975-1989 that the BBWAA missed.

            Well, it's only the HOF, it's OK, it is what it is. Players are eligible forever, they'll get elected someday, their grand kids will be around to enjoy the honor.
            Last edited by Freakshow; 01-17-2013, 09:37 PM.
            Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

            Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Freakshow View Post
              He should be in, according to my interpretation of the Hall’s voting criteria.

              I support your plan to vote your HoF ballot your own way when you vote.

              Obviously, anyone is free to fantasize about what others think or do or worry about. Equally, we are all free to read the guidelines and interpret them.

              Since, 1) the HoF exists, since 2) players are voted in, since 3) no laws are being broken in the voting process, and since 4) no one is suing the HoF for NOT voting them in, I think we have the trifecta (quadfecta?) of agreement.

              There is no reason to fix something that is not broken. Reminds me of FDR trying to "fix" the Supreme Court in 1937 (after 148 years) because it didn't agree with him. Imagine that.
              "It's better to look good, than be good."

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by drstrangelove View Post
                Since, 1) the HoF exists, since 2) players are voted in, since 3) no laws are being broken in the voting process, and since 4) no one is suing the HoF for NOT voting them in, I think we have the trifecta (quadfecta?) of agreement.
                Don't worry, be happy.

                Hey, the Hall's gonna do what it wants, who are we to say anything? :silent:

                Any reason the HOF forum should stay open? :noevil:
                Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

                Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Freakshow View Post
                  The only relevant stat I see here is the number of inductees. And it supports the idea that the whole process is stagnating. Despite the increased numbers of qualified candidates (due to expansion) the number of inductees is at a low point. In the past ten years, the BBWAA has elected 14 players. Since annual elections resumed in 1966 only one 10-year period has seen fewer than that (13 from 1993-2002).
                  This will pass. Wait until 2014-2017. IF very few get in for 2014-17, then yes, Houston, we have a problem.
                  Last edited by drstrangelove; 01-17-2013, 10:21 PM.
                  "It's better to look good, than be good."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Freakshow View Post
                    Don't worry, be happy.

                    Hey, the Hall's gonna do what it wants, who are we to say anything? :silent:

                    Any reason the HOF forum should stay open? :noevil:
                    I'm not saying we shouldn't talk about the HoF. I like the idea and I think it's a good attempt to raise some issues. There ARE some things I'd like to change, but I first have to think through why I want to do that. Because someone got in that I think shouldn't have? Because some one didn't get in that I think should have?

                    Or, what else? Or what else indeed? Isn't that ultimately what we all are meaning when we say it needs to be "fixed?"
                    Last edited by drstrangelove; 01-17-2013, 10:20 PM.
                    "It's better to look good, than be good."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Freakshow View Post
                      4) Sportsmanship – This is the popularity question. Did the fans like him? Did the media? Was he a Sport?
                      Sportsmanship has nothing to do with popularity.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Freakshow View Post
                        The VC has considered, and rejected, every player retiring from 1975-1989 that the BBWAA missed.
                        1975-1989 retiring years are far too recent of history to assume the VC has had their final say on those players, especially those players who retired in the 80s who were often contemporaries of players who are still on the BBWAA ballot. The VC not electing players until 35-40+ years after they retire is pretty common. Way too hasty to assume these players' VC chances are downhill from here.
                        Last edited by dgarza; 01-17-2013, 10:35 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by SavoyBG View Post
                          Sportsmanship has nothing to do with popularity.
                          How would you define it/measure it?
                          Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

                          Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Freakshow View Post
                            How would you define it/measure it?
                            This is an interesting question and tbh, everyone probably will disagree to some extent.

                            First, sportsmanship, like character and integrity are not just personal evaluations but specific to a time period (culture). Doctoring balls was expected and encouraged in the early 1900's, illegal but lightly discouraged in the 30's through 60's. Players were expected to dress in suits in the early 1900's, today sweat pants, tattoos and sleeveless shirts are acceptable. Running over players, spiking, bumping umpires was common in 1880-1910, for another example. So specifying in writing what something is or isn't, well, is stale within a few years when the cultures change.

                            Second, not every HoF has these as part of the selection. Is that good or bad? I don't know. It's what we have used. Every sport can and should be different. The Olympics and Cycling will REMOVE awards and records when you fail tests. Not baseball. I like being different since it's the history we have.

                            Third, just because a sport does not say "sportsmanship, character, and integrity", doesn't mean they don't think about it when voting. People JUDGE people, and except in a court of law, people let their own personal feelings into judgements. Some, of course, more than others, but the people voting for the NBA HoF, NHL HoF, etc are not all from Vulcan. Baseball simply puts in writing what people are going to do anyway.

                            IMO
                            Last edited by drstrangelove; 01-17-2013, 11:47 PM.
                            "It's better to look good, than be good."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Freakshow View Post
                              How would you define it/measure it?
                              From Miriam Webster and Longman's on line:

                              conduct (as fairness, respect for one's opponent, and graciousness in winning or losing) becoming to one participating in a sport

                              behaviour that is fair, honest, and polite in a game or sports competition
                              There's also a connotation of individual sacrifice for the sake of the team.

                              I'm really surprised at the interpretation of sportsmanship in this context as something like "The quality of being a sportsman," perfectly logical though it is.

                              In my youth (50s-60s), teachers, coaches, and counselors nattered endlessly about sportsmanship and the importance of being a "good sport." I read countless stories about kid and adult players who either upheld or let down the ideals of sportsmanship. I think here it's just more self-serving MLB PR. I hope so. I hope no one thinks that the Hall of Fame is really for Roy Tucker, Chip Hilton, and Frank Merriwell only, or believes either that Ty Cobb exemplified sportsmanship, or that he doesn't belong.
                              Last edited by Jackaroo Dave; 01-18-2013, 12:36 AM.
                              Indeed the first step toward finding out is to acknowledge you do not satisfactorily know already; so that no blight can so surely arrest all intellectual growth as the blight of cocksureness.--CS Peirce

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