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  • Originally posted by Los Bravos View Post
    The only way that Alex Rodriguez finishes above Griffey is if you take his numbers at face value. I won't belabor the point about why that's a bad idea but...that's a bad idea.

    And 47th is too low. I'm not sure where I'd have him (as I keep saying, I don't really like to do that kind of definitive numbering aside from maybe breaking it down by position), but 47th overall seems far too low.
    47th includes pitchers. 34th among position players (including NeL). 34th might be a tad low for me but it's in the ballpark.
    My top 10 players:

    1. Babe Ruth
    2. Barry Bonds
    3. Ty Cobb
    4. Ted Williams
    5. Willie Mays
    6. Alex Rodriguez
    7. Hank Aaron
    8. Honus Wagner
    9. Lou Gehrig
    10. Mickey Mantle

    Comment


    • Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post

      47th includes pitchers. 34th among position players (including NeL). 34th might be a tad low for me but it's in the ballpark.
      It’s hard enough comparing players across eras I don’t know how people mix pitchers in with position players. It makes my brain hurt just thinking about trying to sort it out.
      "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

      Comment


      • Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post

        It’s hard enough comparing players across eras I don’t know how people mix pitchers in with position players. It makes my brain hurt just thinking about trying to sort it out.
        I agree, position players and pitchers should be ranked separately. Same with these NFL rankings that rankings that include offensive and defensive players. Doesn't make sense.
        My top 10 players:

        1. Babe Ruth
        2. Barry Bonds
        3. Ty Cobb
        4. Ted Williams
        5. Willie Mays
        6. Alex Rodriguez
        7. Hank Aaron
        8. Honus Wagner
        9. Lou Gehrig
        10. Mickey Mantle

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Yuri89 View Post

          After those you sayed he can come right behind. He didnt did so little unless you talk in terms of WAR.


          Griffey 2001-2010
          3449 at bats

          260/350/483 114 OPS+ 192 homers 1666 total bases

          This done when roiding was still all around the league.




          From the perspective that we are comparing him to the top 10-15 players of all time, then those kind of stats are basically nothing. Just adding counting numbers to his totals.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post

            Fair enough point, but your premise that Griffey was one of the top 3-4 players from 1970-2010 is, of course, highly debatable.

            Each of these players at least have a strong case for being ranked ahead of Griffey:

            Barry Bonds
            Alex Rodriguez
            Albert Pujols
            Rickey Henderson
            Mike Schmidt
            George Brett
            Cal Ripken
            Johnny Bench
            Joe Morgan

            (There may be a few more that I'm forgetting.)

            Then there were some contemporaries with very similar career value to Griffey, such as Chipper Jones* and Jeff Bagwell.

            Most of the players mentioned above aged a lot better than Griffey did, and some people do place a lot of value on aging well as a criteria for being a top-10 player of all-time. You may not agree, and that's fine, but it's a perfectly reasonable opinion to hold (as is your opinion).

            To be clear, I'm not saying ALL of the above players were necessarily better than Griffey, I'm just saying that one can credibly make the case that they had better careers than he did.

            *We had a Griffey vs Chipper poll here on BB-Fever and Chipper got ~36% of the vote
            Mike Piazza is ahead of Griffey for me, and Frank Thomas is very close.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by willshad View Post
              Mike Piazza is ahead of Griffey for me, and Frank Thomas is very close.
              Piazza is a good candidate too. You’ve opened a lot of people’s eyes to Piazza I think. I’ve definitely moved him up in my ranking because of it. I’m a fan of Big Hurt and the Sox but Thomas is a first baseman and a bad one. The only tool he has on Griffey is hitting for average - which is the most important tool. Regardless I have a hard time putting one dimensional players like that in my top 50. Ted Williams would be about the only one. Otherwise the closest thing would be the first basemen in Pujols, Gehrig and Anson and I wouldn’t consider any of them one dimensional.

              Originally posted by Los Bravos View Post
              And 47th is too low. I'm not sure where I'd have him (as I keep saying, I don't really like to do that kind of definitive numbering aside from maybe breaking it down by position), but 47th overall seems far too low.
              Right, Griffey a legend while still active. Had a legendary rookie card, the iconic now ubiquitous backwards hat, youngest player on the all-century team. The analog between him and Bonds and Aaron/Mays seemed obvious to me when I was old enough and/or knew enough at the end of elementary school I think I read a comparison or something.
              Last edited by bluesky5; 07-21-2021, 10:03 PM.
              "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

              Comment


              • Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post
                The analog between him and Bonds and Aaron/Mays seemed obvious to me when I was old enough and/or knew enough at the end of elementary school I think I read a comparison or something.
                I made it over and over again with people that I knew at the time.

                3 6 10 21 29 31 35 41 42 44 47

                Comment


                • Originally posted by willshad View Post

                  From the perspective that we are comparing him to the top 10-15 players of all time, then those kind of stats are basically nothing. Just adding counting numbers to his totals.
                  Really?
                  Look at henderson for example.

                  192 hr in less than 3500 at bats, is pretty impressive for a decline. Look at other people numbers.


                  Who are your top 15?? Only the players in the cobbs league?? Yeah basically those are the guys that dont have decline.

                  Comment

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