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    four tool
    Registered User

  • four tool
    replied
    I can't see HOF just for a great peak unless that peak has LOTS of black ink. Rosen Black ink 12, Koufax, I stopped counting at 46--saying Al is the equivalent of Sandy doesn't fly.
    four tool
    Registered User
    Last edited by four tool; 03-20-2015, 05:42 AM.

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  • Fuzzy Bear
    Say Hey!

  • Fuzzy Bear
    replied
    Rosen is a guy I thought of when it came to the issue of honoring the living. It's too bad he passed without making the HOF.

    I don't think that the comparision to Dizzy Dean is off base. Rosen may have not had the fame Dizzy Dean had, but FWIW, he had a long and distinguished career in baseball as an exec that shouldn't be pooh-poohed.

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  • Bothrops Atrox
    IDC/ZRC/NJC*/*

  • Bothrops Atrox
    replied
    Originally posted by 1905 Giants View Post
    I just wanted to note it.
    Noted it was.

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  • 1905 Giants
    Early Baseball Fan

  • 1905 Giants
    replied
    Originally posted by Bothrops Atrox View Post
    Yeah...that was my point.
    I just wanted to note it.

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  • Bothrops Atrox
    IDC/ZRC/NJC*/*

  • Bothrops Atrox
    replied
    Originally posted by 1905 Giants View Post
    The 1995 Cleveland Indians scored an average of 5.83 runs per game, to 4.97 for the 1953 Indians
    Yeah...that was my point.

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  • Yankillaz
    I smell Sex and Candy

  • Yankillaz
    replied
    I have a question. Why does Al Rosen and other players like him don't get credit for missed time due to being stuck on the minor leagues due to a player blocking him? Easily is a top 15 3rd Baseman, who knows if top 10 if you add 4 years 1946-1949.

    Leave a comment:

  • baltimorechop
    Registered User

  • baltimorechop
    replied
    PI Search of Non-HOF, non-Active to find the highest rBat season of all time.

    Assuming you don't count Bonds (1-3, 8), McGwire (4), American Association (Tip at 5), Sosa (6), Giambi (7) you get to Norm Cash at 9th.

    After him another Giambi, Union Association (Fred Dunlap), Delgado (12th), Bonds, Sheffield then Babe Herman at 15th. Belle '95 is 55th.



    If i run this only until 1994 (take out the steroid era) you get

    1. Tip O'Neill (AA)
    2. Norm Cash
    3. Fred Dunlap (UA)
    4. Bonds '93
    5. Herman
    6. Shoeless
    7. Shoeless
    8. Rosen '53
    9. Lefty O'Doul '29
    10. Bagwell '94



    Tommy Holmes at 14, Albert Belle '94 at #21.

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  • 1905 Giants
    Early Baseball Fan

  • 1905 Giants
    replied
    Originally posted by Bothrops Atrox View Post
    In fairness, Belle was on pace for a 8 WAR season if not for the labor issue.

    That being said, if their offense was comparable given environment, etc. The fact that Rosen was a solid defenseive 3B compared to a poor defensive LF is where the difference in WAR comes and why Rosen has a case here. There is no doubt Belle tops Rosen in counting stats across the board if we extrapolate for the 18 games that were cut short. The question is- how much do we scale back for when and where Belle played? There is a massive difference in run environment between 1953 and 1995.
    The 1995 Cleveland Indians scored an average of 5.83 runs per game, to 4.97 for the 1953 Indians

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  • Bothrops Atrox
    IDC/ZRC/NJC*/*

  • Bothrops Atrox
    replied
    Originally posted by 1905 Giants View Post
    Albert Belle 1995: .317/.401/.690 (led league) 52 doubles (led league) 50 HR (led league) 126 RBI (led league) 177 OPS+ 377 TB (led league) 6.9 WAR (3rd among position players) 2nd in MVP

    Al Rosen 1953: .336/.422/.613 (led league) 27 doubles 43 HR (led league) 145 RBI (led league) 180 OPS+ (led league) 367 TB (led league) 10.1 WAR (led league) MVP Award
    In fairness, Belle was on pace for a 8 WAR season if not for the labor issue.

    That being said, if their offense was comparable given environment, etc. The fact that Rosen was a solid defenseive 3B compared to a poor defensive LF is where the difference in WAR comes and why Rosen has a case here. There is no doubt Belle tops Rosen in counting stats across the board if we extrapolate for the 18 games that were cut short. The question is- how much do we scale back for when and where Belle played? There is a massive difference in run environment between 1953 and 1995.

    Leave a comment:

  • 1905 Giants
    Early Baseball Fan

  • 1905 Giants
    replied
    Originally posted by JR Hart View Post
    I can't see how Belle's 50 HR 50 double season is not #1
    Albert Belle 1995: .317/.401/.690 (led league) 52 doubles (led league) 50 HR (led league) 126 RBI (led league) 177 OPS+ 377 TB (led league) 6.9 WAR (3rd among position players) 2nd in MVP

    Al Rosen 1953: .336/.422/.613 (led league) 27 doubles 43 HR (led league) 145 RBI (led league) 180 OPS+ (led league) 367 TB (led league) 10.1 WAR (led league) MVP Award

    Leave a comment:

  • JR Hart
    2010, 2012, 2014

  • JR Hart
    replied
    Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post
    IMO,

    Best season by non-HOFer. Excluding active guys, steroid guys, and banned guys.

    Pitcher: Dwight Gooden 1985
    Hitter: Al Rosen 1953
    I can't see how Belle's 50 HR 50 double season is not #1

    Leave a comment:

  • Honus Wagner Rules
    xFIP?! I laugh at you!

  • Honus Wagner Rules
    replied
    Originally posted by EdTarbusz View Post
    He couldn't have played on the 1948 Indians even if the Indians front office had wanted him there, which they probably wouldn't have because they had Eddie Robinson playing there.

    Part of the deal when the Indians acquired Allie Clark from the Yankees after the 1947 season was that Al Rosen would spend the 1948 season playing for the Yankees affiliate Kansas City Blues in the American Association. This is why Rosen didn't spend the 1948 playing for Baltimore or Oklahoma City in the Indians system.
    Ed drops some historical baseball knowledge.

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  • EdTarbusz
    091707 0657

  • EdTarbusz
    replied
    Originally posted by dgarza View Post
    I was wondering why he was playing in the Yankees' minor league org in 1948. What was the point of him playing there? I don't know the story.

    That 1948 season was a really great year for Rosen in KC.
    If you extrapolate his 1948 numbers to 155 games, you get:
    .327/.422/.587
    1.009 OPS
    124 Runs
    184 Hits
    35 Doubles
    10 Triples
    31 HRs
    134 RBIs
    89 Walks
    331 Total Bases

    Too bad he didn't come up sooner.
    The Yankees probably wanted to strengthen the Blues so they could repeat as AA champs in 1948.

    Rosen's Minor League apprenticeship was pretty typical for the era. He spent a season in AA, one in the American Association and one in the PCL. He put up big numbers in the Minors, but it wasn't unusual for players who put up those kinds of numbers to struggle in the Major Leagues. Also, Rosen didn't help his own cause. In 1949 he was with the Indians when the season opened and played poorly in May and June. He didn't play well in 1949 until the Indians sent him to San Diego.

    Leave a comment:

  • Cougar
    Registered User

  • Cougar
    replied
    Originally posted by EdTarbusz View Post
    He couldn't have played on the 1948 Indians even if the Indians front office had wanted him there, which they probably wouldn't have because they had Eddie Robinson playing there.

    Part of the deal when the Indians acquired Allie Clark from the Yankees after the 1947 season was that Al Rosen would spend the 1948 season playing for the Yankees affiliate Kansas City Blues in the American Association. This is why Rosen didn't spend the 1948 playing for Baltimore or Oklahoma City in the Indians system.
    One learns something new every day. Thank you Ed.

    Leave a comment:

  • dgarza
    Registered User

  • dgarza
    replied
    Originally posted by EdTarbusz View Post

    Part of the deal when the Indians acquired Allie Clark from the Yankees after the 1947 season was that Al Rosen would spend the 1948 season playing for the Yankees affiliate Kansas City Blues in the American Association. This is why Rosen didn't spend the 1948 playing for Baltimore or Oklahoma City in the Indians system.
    I was wondering why he was playing in the Yankees' minor league org in 1948. What was the point of him playing there? I don't know the story.

    That 1948 season was a really great year for Rosen in KC.
    If you extrapolate his 1948 numbers to 155 games, you get:
    .327/.422/.587
    1.009 OPS
    124 Runs
    184 Hits
    35 Doubles
    10 Triples
    31 HRs
    134 RBIs
    89 Walks
    331 Total Bases

    Too bad he didn't come up sooner.

    Leave a comment:

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