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1944 Best of Baseball Election

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  • 1944 Best of Baseball Election

    This is our ninth election in this project. The entire rules follow.

    This election will run through 11:59:59 PM EST April 10, 2009.

    The prior election, and the ballots of the 1943 voters, are in this thread
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  • #2
    Rules

    1) All BBF users in good standing may participate. However, if there is more than one vote being cast from any one computer or IP, it must be cleared in advance, or only the first vote will be counted. I only anticipate exceptions for family members living in the same home, but I will entertain requests on other bases. Please note that I and the other mods who participate in the project have the capability of determining the IP from which posts come, and I for one intend to monitor same. I have had to deal with a single user manipulating a project with multiple votes, and I don't intend to repeat the experience.

    2) Elections will require a 10 voter quorum. If we do not get ten voters and there are candidate(s) who would be elected no matter what the voters needed to make a quorum did, those candidate(s) will be inducted. Otherwise, no one will be inducted. Further, if we fail to meet a quorum in two of any four consecutive elections, the project will end. If, for instance, we're doing fine on the player end but not the contributor end, I would drop the contributor end under this rule.

    3) We will start in 1936, just as Cooperstown did. For the first election (1936), voters will rank their top 20, taking 10. After that we will go to having voters rank their top 12 players. Points awarded 12-11-10, etc. We will take the top five through 1940, then top three players per year elected until 2010, then two per year. If a voter does not number his selections, I will try to get him/her to do so. If they do not do so before the end of the election period, I may in my sole discretion invalidate the ballot. I have included this provision in order to ease the process of recording the votes. On another point, I know, the 1936 backlog is huge--but that was a historical issue they couldn't avoid, so neither will we.

    4) We will also have a contributor ballot, which will elect one a year through 1985, then one every three (3) years. Contributors will be ranked 1 through 5, with points awarded 5-4-3-2-1. Voters may choose to participate in either one of the ballots or both.

    5) It is permissible to vote for a candidate on both the contributor and player lists.

    6) You are allowed to change your ballot at any time the ballot is open. However, I request that you PM me (jalbright) to ensure that I am aware of the change(s) or make a separate posting in the voting thread. You must let me know the players involved in the changes at a minimum, but it would also help if you added their rankings (before and after). I cannot agree to be responsible for monitoring the thread for any changes voters might make. If I catch them, fine, but if I don't and am not notified, the official count will be what I have been notified of, not what is on the thread.

    7) Players are eligible at the later of age 45 or the first year thereafter in which the player does not play. If the birthdate is not known, add five years to the first time the player misses a season and has less than 10 games the next season. There is an exception for early death, in which case the year of death plus two will be used if that yields an earlier date.

    8) Contributors become eligible at age 65 or in the year of death plus two. whichever comes first.

    9) Each election will run for two weeks unless expressly altered by the project manager, contributors and players done simultaneously.

    10) No one is ineligible, nor are players from any league ineligible. If there are players who returned to the Negro Leagues or Japan after going to the majors, the departure from the majors will be their career end date for purposes of this project. Candidates will not lose eligiblity after becoming eligible except by being elected as either a contributor or player.

    11) The standard for including a player on one's ballot is that the player must in the voter's opinion be among the very best eligible players (preferably the number voted on, but if a voter wishes to support someone they feel is 15th in a 12 person ballot instead of one of the top 12, it's too close for anyone to reasonably object. On the other hand, supporting the 25th best eligible candidate on a 12 person ballot is probably beyond the pale). I reserve the power to invalidate ballots which I do not feel are a reasonably knowledgeable, good faith effort to rank the players. One issue I am quite concerned about is that I do not want to see what clearly appear to be attempts to manipulate the ballot so as to elect a candidate. In isolation, I probably could live with this, but if it became a widely used tactic, the project would devolve into something I have no desire to be associated with. Moreover, I think that this position asks everyone else to cast legitimate votes so that you can manipulate the system to favor your pet candidates. I cannot accept that, as it strikes me as unfair to other voters. For example, you can't expect to favor even a legitimate HOF candidate like Bill Dahlen over Babe Ruth to get Dahlen elected without being asked to provide a reasonable justification for ranking Dahlen over Ruth. If you can provide a reasonable justification in that scenario, the ballot will stand. If not, you will be asked to make a change. Certainly, a reasonable justification does not indicate in essence simply that you want Dahlen elected. Furthermore, if I invalidate multiple ballots by the same individual as failing to meet this rule, that individual will forever lose the right to have his/her ballots counted. Voters are encouraged to consider character, sportsmanship, and compliance with the rules and spirit of baseball in their rankings of players.

    12) I will post lists of eligible players and contributors before each election. If you have a question about the eligibility of a candidate, please ask. I will provide a list of future eligibility dates as well.

    13) My eligibility lists come from all persons in the BBF HOF, BBTF Hall of Merit, and Cooperstown, plus all persons getting a vote in a BBF HOF election in the past year and a half or in a BBWAA election. This is a relatively comprehensive list, and thus I must request that if you want another candidate included, you provide some justification for why said candidate is worthy of getting a vote in this project. The main area I think this might come into play is if a voter supports a person who was eligible for the final selections from the recent pre WWII or Negro League committees but not on my master list. That fact alone would serve as ample justification for putting said candidate on the list. We may learn more about Cuban ball or what have you and thus include others after a case is made for them, however. The contributor list is undoubtedly not as comprehensive, and this fact will be taken into consideration.

    14) Other than the sportsmanship and character issues, players are to be evaluated solely upon their play. I would prefer that if a player is qualified by his play standing alone that he be elected on that basis. However, a candidate may only be elected either as a contributor or a player, but not both. Contributors are the area where the entire body of work during his career in the sport, including his play, managing, scouting, executive, writing, broadcasting or other work in the sport is relevant. Contributors are to be ranked based on who the voter thinks is most worthy of induction into the Contributor group in this project.

    15) Any ballot with two (2) or more spots unfilled with eligible candidates is invalid. In the event of the listing of ineligible names, I will try to notify the voter so that he/she can correct the ballot before the end of the voting period. If the change is made timely, it will count. If not, and there are two or more invalid names, the ballot will not be considered valid. If there is only one, the ineligible name will be stricken and all names after it on the affected ballot will be moved up one spot.

    16) Any players listed beyond the 12th place for any ballot but the first (in which case it is 20th place) will be ignored. If more than one person is listed as tied for the last available place and the ballot is oversize, all names will be dropped, which may lead to the invalidation of the ballot.

    17) Ties are not permitted in ballot listings. I reserve the right to invalidate ballots for use of ties in the rankings, be it within a single ballot or over the course of several ballots. If the voter does not correct such a listing voluntarily, except in the case of an oversize ballot tie for the last eligible place, if do not invalidate the ballot, I will choose the placement of the two "tied" candidates, generally preferring the candidate preferred by the other voters.

    18) For any ties between candidates straddling the in/out line of selections, the first thing considered is the ranking of the candidates by the ballots cast. If there are more than two candidates tied, use a 3-2-1 or whatever is appropriate system. Once one person separates from the tied group, restart with the remaining candidates until there are only as many candidates as the rules call for being elected. If they remain tied after this process, take those with the most #1 votes as the next step, then the most #2 votes and so on to see if that breaks the tie. If not, we will induct all candidates who remain tied at that point.

    19) One thing we're going to have to be aware of is the timeline in the case of at least a few contributors. Two which jump out at me are Buck O'Neill, 1976, and Branch Rickey, 1946. I intend to eventually vote for both men, but in 1946, Jackie Robinson was still in Montreal. Really, Branch should wait until at least 1947 after Jackie's success in the majors to get credit for that move. If you think Rickey belongs in the top 5 in 1946 without his role in breaking the color line, that's fine--but he shouldn't get credit for that important success until it actually happened. Buck O'Neill did some important things up until 1976, but after that he was in Ken Burns' Baseball and he was instrumental in the establishment of the Negro Leagues Hall of Fame (both occurred in or around 1994). If you think he belongs based on accomplishments before those two things, that's perfectly acceptable, but please don't credit him with them before they actually happened.

    20) I reserve the right to hold both 19th century and Negro League special elections in 2000 if we don't have a sufficient number in those categories by then. These elections probably will be limited to voters I feel are appropriately versed on the group of players to be considered. I do wish to only use this as a last resort, however, and only to ensure that those groups received what I regard as at least adequate bare minimum representation. I do not plan on sharing with you what I consider to meet those bare minimum standards, but I think that the numbers I am thinking of are well below the number of candidates that well informed observers believe are well qualified candidates from each group.

    21) I will maintain a thread of the project's history and rules which will provide a listing of all elected candidates.

    22) Feel free to ask questions by either sending jalbright a PM, or by posting a question in voting thread
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

    Comment


    • #3
      The players who become eligible in 1944 are:

      Code:
      Arlett , Buzz
      Bishop , Max
      Combs , Earle
      Crowder , Al 
      Fonseca , Lew
      Hoyt , Waite
      Root , Charlie
      Whitehill , Earl
      There is only one contributor candidate becoming eligible in 1944, Jack Norworth.
      Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
      Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
      A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

      Comment


      • #4
        The 1943 player candidates who were not elected had these results in the 1943 election:

        Code:
        player………………	votes	points
        Wright , George	15	101
        Santop , Louis	14	98
        Ward , John M.	10	75
        Rusie , Amos	13	73
        Hines , Paul	12	71
        Barnes , Ross	10	70
        Clarke , Fred	12	64
        Sisler , George	11	63
        Jackson , Joe	6	53
        Collins , Jimmy	10	49
        Magee , Sherry	9	47
        Wheat , Zack	6	38
        Radbourn , C	7	29
        Thompson , S	4	25
        Bennett , C	4	23
        Keeler , Willie	5	23
        Vance , Dazzy	5	23
        Stovey , Harry	5	22
        Start , Joe	3	21
        Sutton , Ezra	3	21
        Johnson , HR	3	18
        Terry , Bill	3	17
        Traynor , Pie	2	16
        Carey , Max	2	15
        Caruthers , B 	3	15
        Waddell , Rube	3	12
        Grant , Frank	1	10
        Flick , Elmer	2	9
        Galvin , Pud	2	9
        Gore , George	2	8
        Groh , Heinie	1	8
        Spalding , Al	2	7
        Chance , Frank	1	6
        Coveleski , S	2	6
        Maranville , R	2	6
        Browning , Pete	2	4
        Duffy , Hugh	1	4
        Hill , Pete	 1	4
        McPhee , Bid	1	4
        Roush , Edd 	1	4
        Pennock, Herb	1	3
        Tinker, Joe	1	3
        Evers , Johnny	1	2
        Jennings , H	1	2
        Bresnahan , R	1	1
        Kling, Johnny	1	1
        Pearce , Dickey	1	1
        The 1942 contributor candidates who were not elected had these results in the 1942 election:

        Code:
        contributor…….	votes	points
        Hulbert , W	17	60
        Creighton , J	13	40
        Cartwright , A	11	39
        Richter , F	7	18
        Klem, Bill…..	8	14
        Landis , K	4	12
        Barrow , Ed	4	8
        Pearce, Dickey	2	5
        Taylor , C. I.	2	5
        Commiskey , C	1	4
        Reach , A. J.	2	4
        Clarke , Fred	1	3
        Ward , John M.	2	3
        Doubleday , A	1	2
        Dunn , Jack	1	2
        Hanlon , Ned	1	2
        Spink, Albert	1	2
        Caylor , O. P.	1	1
        Conlan , C	1	1
        Wilkinson, JL	1	1
        I strongly suggest that you pay attention to this list, as the leaders of the holdovers are likely to join any strong newcomer candidates as the leaders for winning induction.
        Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
        Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
        A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

        Comment


        • #5
          Members of the Best of Baseball Hall

          Players

          Code:
          Pete Alexander
          Cap Anson
          Frank Baker
          Dan Brouthers
          Mordecai Brown
          Jesse Burkett
          Oscar Charleston
          John Clarkson
          Ty Cobb
          Eddie Collins
          Roger Connor
          Sam Crawford
          Bill Dahlen
          George Davis
          Ed Delahanty
          Buck Ewing
          Frankie Frisch
          Lou Gehrig
          Billy Hamilton
          Harry Heilmann
          Rogers Hornsby
          Walter Johnson
          Tim Keefe
          King Kelly
          Nap LaJoie
          Pop Lloyd
          Christy Mathewson
          Kid Nichols
          Jim O'Rourke
          Eddie Plank
          Bullet Joe Rogan
          Babe Ruth
          Tris Speaker
          Cristobal Torriente
          Honus Wagner
          Ed Walsh
          Deacon White
          Smoky Joe Williams
          Cy Young
          Contributors

          Code:
          Doc Adams
          Henry Chadwick
          Rube Foster
          Ban Johnson
          Connie Mack
          John McGraw
          Al Spalding
          Harry Wright
          Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
          Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
          A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

          Comment


          • #6
            The complete list of eligible players:

            Code:
            Adams , Babe
            Adams , Sparky
            Altrock , Nick
            Archer , Jimmy
            Arlett , Buzz
            Austin , Jimmy
            Bancroft , Dave
            Barnes , Ross
            Barry , Jack
            Battin , Joe
            Beaumont , Ginger
            Beckley , Jake
            Bender , Chief
            Bennett , Charlie
            Benton , Larry
            Bergen , Marty
            Bigbee , Carson
            Bishop , Max
            Blades , Ray
            Blue , Lu
            Bodie , Ping
            Boley , Joe
            Bond , Tommy
            Bradley , Bill
            Breitenstein , Ted
            Bresnahan , Roger
            Browning , Pete
            Burns , George J.
            Bush  , Joe
            Bush , Donie
            Cadore , Leon
            Camnitz , Howie
            Carey , Max
            Carrigan , Bill
            Caruthers , Bob 
            Chance , Frank
            Chapman , Ray
            Chase , Hal
            Chesbro , Jack
            Childs , Cupid
            Cicotte , Eddie
            Clarke , Fred
            Coakley , Andy
            Collins , Jimmy
            Collins , Shano
            Combs , Earle
            Conroy , Wid
            Coombs , Jack
            Cooper , Andy
            Cooper , Wilbur
            Coveleski , Stan
            Crandall , Doc
            Cravath , Gavvy
            Creighton , Jim
            Criger , Lou
            Cross , Lave
            Crowder , Al 
            Cruise , Walt
            Cummings , Candy
            Cuyler , Kiki
            Daubert , Jake
            Davis , Harry
            Dinneen , Bill
            Doak , Bill
            Donlin , Mike
            Donovan , Bill
            Dooin , Red
            Doyle , Jack 
            Doyle , Larry
            Duffy , Hugh
            Dugan , Joe
            Dunlap , Fred
            Dykes , Jimmy
            Ehmke , Howard
            Elberfeld , Kid
            Ens , Jewel
            Evers , Johnny
            Faber , Red
            Falkenberg , Cy
            Fletcher , Art
            Flick , Elmer
            Fonseca , Lew
            Foster , Eddie
            Fraser , Chick
            Galvin , Pud
            Glasscock , Jack
            Gleason , Kid
            Gonzalez , Mike
            Gore , George
            Gowdy , Hank
            Grant , Eddie
            Grant , Frank
            Griffith , Clark
            Grimes , Burleigh
            Grimm , Charlie
            Groh , Heinie
            Hahn , Noodles
            Haines , Jesse
            Hargrave , Bubbles
            Harris , Bucky
            Herzog , Buck 
            Hill , Pete
            Hinchman , Bill
            Hines , Paul
            Hooper , Harry
            Hoyt , Waite
            Huggins , Miller
            Irwin , Charlie
            Jackman , Will
            Jackson , Joe
            Jennings , Hughie
            Johnson , Home Run
            Jones , Charley
            Jones , Fielder
            Jones , Sam P.
            Jordan , Tim
            Joss , Addie
            Judge , Joe
            Keeler , Willie
            Kelley , Joe
            Kerr , Dickie
            Killefer , Bill
            Kilroy , Matt
            Kling , Johnny
            Knabe , Otto
            Kremer , Ray
            Lange , Bill
            Larkin , Henry
            Latham , Arlie
            Leach , Freddy
            Leach , Tommy
            Leever , Sam
            Lewis , Duffy
            Lobert , Hans
            Long , Herman
            Lowe , Bobby
            Lundy , Dick
            Luque , Dolf
            Lyons , Denny
            Magee , Sherry
            Maranville , Rabbit
            Marberry , Firpo
            Marquard , Rube
            Mathews , Bobby
            Mays , Carl
            McAleer , Jimmy
            McCarthy , Tommy
            McCormick , Jim
            McGinnity , Joe
            McGowan , Bill
            McInnis , Stuffy
            McLean , Larry
            McPhee , Bid
            McVey , Cal
            Meadows , Lee
            Mendez , Jose
            Meusel , Bob
            Milan , Clyde
            Miller , Bing
            Miller , Dots
            Miller , Hack
            Moore , Dobie
            Moran , Pat
            Mostil , Johnny
            Mullane , Tony
            Murphy , Danny
            Murray , Red
            Nehf , Art
            O'Doul , Lefty
            Oeschger , Joe
            O'Farrell , Bob
            O'Leary , Charlie
            Oms , Alejandro
            O'Neill , Steve
            O'Neill , Tip
            Orr , Dave
            Pabor , Charlie
            Paskert , Dode
            Pearce , Dickey
            Peckinpaugh , Roger
            Peitz , Heinie
            Pennock , Herb
            Perdue , Hub
            Perkins , Cy
            Phillippe , Deacon 
            Pike , Lip
            Pipp , Wally
            Poles , Spotswood
            Quinn , Jack
            Radbourn , Charlie
            Raymond , Bugs
            Redding , Dick
            Remsen , Jack
            Rice , Sam
            Richardson , Hardy
            Ring , Jimmy
            Ritchey , Claude
            Rixey , Eppa
            Robertson , Dave
            Rommel , Eddie
            Root , Charlie
            Roush , Edd 
            Rucker , Nap
            Rudolph , Dick
            Ruel , Muddy
            Rusie , Amos
            Ryan  , Jimmy
            Santop , Louis
            Schacht , Al
            Schaefer , Germany
            Schalk , Ray
            Schang , Wally
            Schreckengost , Ossie
            Schulte , Frank
            Scott , Everett
            Scott , Jack
            Severeid , Hank
            Sewell , Joe
            Seymour , Cy
            Sheckard , Jimmy
            Sherdel , Bill
            Shocker , Urban
            Sisler , George
            Smith , Earl
            Smith , Sherry
            Sparks , Tully
            Stahl , Jake
            Start , Joe
            Steinfeldt , Harry
            Stephenson , Riggs
            Stovey , Harry
            Street , Gabby
            Sutton , Ezra
            Sweeney , Bill
            Tannehill , Jesse
            Taylor , Ben
            Tenney , Fred
            Terry , Bill
            Thomas , Ira
            Thompson , Sam
            Tiernan , Mike
            Tinker , Joe
            Toney , Fred
            Traynor , Pie
            Turner , Terry
            Uhle , George
            Van Haltren , George
            Vance , Dazzy
            Veach , Bobby
            Waddell , Rube
            Walberg , Rube
            Wallace , Bobby
            Wambsganss , Bill
            Ward , John M.
            Warfield , Frank
            Welch , Mickey
            Wheat , Zack
            White , Sol
            White , Will 
            Whitehill , Earl
            Williams , Cy
            Williams , Ken
            Williamson , Ned
            Willis , Vic
            Witt , Whitey
            Wood , Joe
            Wright , George
            Yerkes , Steve
            Youngs , Ross
            Zachary , Tom
            Zimmer , Chief
            The complete list of eligible contributors:

            Code:
            Abe , Iso
            Adams , Doc
            Bancroft , Frank
            Barrow , Ed
            Bulkely , Morgan
            Cartwright , Alexander
            Caylor , O. P.
            Chance , Frank
            Clarke , Fred
            Commiskey , Charlie
            Conlan , Charles
            Connolly , Tom
            Cooper , Andy
            Creighton , Jim
            Cummings , Candy
            Dinneen , Bill
            Doubleday , Abner
            Dreyfuss , Barney
            Dunn , Jack
            Elias , Al Munro
            Foster , John B.
            Fullerton , Hugh
            Gleason , Kid
            Griffith , Clark
            Hanlon , Ned
            Hillerich , John
            Huggins , Miller
            Hulbert , William
            Jennings , Hughie
            Klem , Bill
            Landis , Kenesaw
            Lardner , Ring
            Leavitt, Jr. , Charles W.
            McCarthy , Tommy
            Mendez , Jose
            Mills , A. G.
            Moran , Pat
            Mutrie , Jim
            Navin , Frank
            Norworth, Jack
            Osborn , Frank
            Reach , A. J.
            Richter , Francis
            Robinson , Wilbert
            Ruppert , Jacob
            Selee , Frank
            Shibe , Ben
            Spink, Albert
            Stallings , George
            Taylor , C. I.
            Thayer , Ernest
            Ward , John M.
            Warfield , Frank
            White , Sol
            Wilkinson , J. L. 
            Wilson , Horace
            Wright , George
            Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
            Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
            A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

            Comment


            • #7
              My ballot:

              Players
              1. John M. Ward
              2. Amos Rusie
              3. Louis Santop
              4. Sherry Magee
              5. Zack Wheat
              6. Paul Hines
              7. Fred Clarke
              8. George Wright
              9. Dazzy Vance
              10. Harry Stovey
              11. Burleigh Grimes
              12. Pud Galvin

              Contributors
              1. William Hulbert
              2. Jim Creighton
              3. Kennesaw Landis
              4. Francis Richter
              5. Bill Klem
              Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
              Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
              A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm removing J. L. Wilkinson from my ballot for the time being, though he certainly will reappear. I've added Richter and Klem to my contributor ballot. My three new players (Stovey, Grimes and Galvin) may disappear in 1945 with the deep class that comes on that year. Those that disappear will return, though.
                Last edited by jalbright; 03-28-2009, 09:42 AM.
                Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                Comment


                • #9
                  John Montgomery Ward is climbing among the players, which I'm glad to see. Even so, I think he's underappreciated at this point. Let me repeat myself on his case:

                  His playing career divides into two parts, which makes it hard to get a handle on him. First he was a pitcher, and, according to baseball-reference.com, the most similar guy to him in that capacity is HOFer Addie Joss. He hurt his arm, so he moved to shortstop, and the most similar player to him there is a darned good, though not great, player in Bobby Lowe. Put the value of Bobby Lowe on top of Addie Joss, though, and that is definitely a HOF quality player.

                  He has 409 win shares, good for 41st overall, ahead of the already elected Cap Anson, Frank Baker, Mordecai Brown, Jesse Burkett, John Clarkson, Roger Connor, Bill Dahlen, Buck Ewing, Jim O'Rourke, Eddie Plank, Ed Walsh, George Davis, Ed Delahanty, Harry Heilmann, King Kelly and Billy Hamilton and guys with post 1875 careers neck and neck him in the voting like Paul Hines and Amos Rusie. He also had a far longer career than Ross Barnes, who also is neck and neck with him in the voting. I preferred some of these guys to Ward, I admit, but by no means all of them.
                  Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                  Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                  A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    1) George Wright
                    2) Ross Barnes
                    3) Luis Santop
                    4) John Ward
                    5) Paul Hines
                    6) Fred Clarke
                    7) Amos Rusie
                    8) Jimmy Collins
                    9) Charlie Bennett
                    10) Dazzy Vance
                    11) Charlie Radbourne
                    12) Rube Waddell


                    1) William Hulbert
                    2) Alexander Cartwright
                    3) Francis Richter
                    4) Dickey Pearce
                    5) Commissioner Landis

                    --Nobody in the newly eligible pool is close to my ballot. I'm am going to wait on filling the last 3 spots on my players ballot and last spot on my contributors ballot until after soem discussion. With only one pitcher on my ballot I think at least one of those is certain to be added - although my ballot last year was submitted with only the same one (Rusie).
                    Last edited by leecemark; 03-28-2009, 08:57 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      1. Sherry Magee
                      2. Pie Traynor
                      3. Heinie Groh
                      4. Max Carey
                      5. Frank Chance
                      6. Rabbit Marranville
                      7. Bid McPhee
                      8. Joe Tinker
                      9. Johnny Evers
                      10. Roger Bresnahan
                      11. Johnny Kling
                      12. George Sisler

                      The 12 spot was tough, I probably would have put Buzz there but I am sure I never would have heard the end of it.


                      1. Charles Comiskey
                      2. Ed Barrow
                      3. Jack Dunn
                      4. A.J. Reach
                      5. Bill Klem

                      I would probably have voted for J.G. Taylor Spink but he is not on the list.
                      I think by the mid 40's it is pretty clear he is having an impact on the game.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by leecemark View Post
                        --Nobody in the newly eligible pool is close to my ballot. I'm am going to wait on filling the last 3 spots on my players ballot and last spot on my contributors ballot until after soem discussion. With only one pitcher on my ballot I think at least one of those is certain to be added - although my ballot last year was submitted with only the same one (Rusie).
                        We've discussed Jim Creighton as a contributor, the man who caused the monumental change of making pitching far more important than in slow pitch softball. I'd recommend him for your contributor spot.

                        Two guys who are doing reasonably well in the voting who aren't on your ballot are Zack Wheat and Sherry Magee. I'd recommend those two, for the reasons stated here for Wheat and here for Magee.
                        Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                        Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                        A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Ubiquitous View Post
                          I would probably have voted for J.G. Taylor Spink but he is not on the list.
                          I think by the mid 40's it is pretty clear he is having an impact on the game.
                          He's not eligible until the earlier of the year he turns 65 or his year of death plus two. By my calculations, he becomes eligible in 1953 under these rules.
                          Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                          Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                          A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Please note that Al Spalding is no longer eligible as a player candidate, as he's been elected as a contributor.
                            Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                            Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                            A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I'd say Wright and Santop are clear favorites to make it this year, with the third spot going to one of Ward, Rusie, Hines and Barnes, who are closely bunched together in the 1943 voting.
                              Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                              Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                              A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                              Comment

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