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2003 Best of Baseball election thread

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  • #16
    1. Wade Boggs
    2. Andre Dawson
    3. Alan Trammell
    4. Burleigh Grimes
    5. Luis Aparicio
    6. Lefty Gomez
    7. Eppa Rixey
    8. Jake Beckley
    9. Lou Brock
    10. Ray Dandridge
    11. Tony Perez
    12. Jimmy Sheckard


    Contributors

    1. Billy Evans
    2. O.P. Caylor
    3. Bucky Harris
    4. Ernie Harwell
    5. Iso Abe
    Dave Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
    Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
    Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
    Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
    Robin Bill Ernie JEDI

    Comment


    • #17
      Players:

      1. Wade Boggs
      2. Lou Brock
      3. Jake Beckley
      4. Alan Trammell
      5. Tony Mullane
      6. Jimmy Sheckard
      7. Rick Reuschel
      8. Ray Dandridge
      9. Quincy Trouppe
      10. Bill Freehan
      11. Dwight Evans
      12. Luis Aparicio

      Contributors:

      1. Harry Caray
      2. David Neft
      3. Bob Uecker
      4. Al Munro Elias
      5. Billy Evans

      Comment


      • #18
        The only outstanding voter from last election is Dogdaze, who hasn't posted at BBF since his July 3rd post in the 2002 ballot thread. Removing the three players and one contributor elected last cycle from his ballots, here's how his holdovers were ranked in 2002:

        Players:

        1. Lou Brock
        2. Luis Aparicio
        3. Dwight Evans
        4. Wally Berger
        5. Rick Reuschel
        6. Eppa Rixey
        7. Reggie Smith
        8. Bill Freehan
        9. Andre Dawson

        Contributors:

        1. Iso Abe
        2. Billy Evans
        3. Al Munro Elias
        4. David Neft
        Given no new voters this cycle, Dogdaze's ballot could potentially decide both the contributor ballot and one of the player spots. Curious to see how the newcomers rank on his ballot and if he's given any thought to reordering his holdovers.
        "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
        "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
        "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
        "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Brad Harris View Post
          The only outstanding voter from last election is Dogdaze, who hasn't posted at BBF since his July 3rd post in the 2002 ballot thread. Removing the three players and one contributor elected last cycle from his ballots, here's how his holdovers were ranked in 2002:

          Given no new voters this cycle, Dogdaze's ballot could potentially decide both the contributor ballot and one of the player spots. Curious to see how the newcomers rank on his ballot and if he's given any thought to reordering his holdovers.
          Yeah, I haven't posted much lately, been really busy these days, anyway, here's my votes:

          Players:

          1. Wade Boggs
          2. Alan Trammell
          3. Lou Brock
          4. Luis Aparicio
          5. Dwight Evans
          6. Wally Berger
          7. Rick Reuschel
          8. Eppa Rixey
          9. Reggie Smith
          10. Bill Freehan
          11. Andre Dawson
          12. Quincy Trouppe

          Contributors:

          1. Iso Abe
          2. Billy Evans
          3. Al Munro Elias
          4. David Neft
          5. Shigeru Mizuhara

          Comment


          • #20
            That was incredibly timely! Thanks, Dogdaze. I was really curious who the 12th player on your ballot might be. Trouppe is already garnering majority support among voters. Solid choice.
            "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
            "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
            "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
            "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

            Comment


            • #21
              Looking ahead, it appears as though we're going to have a decent number of elections over the next several years in which no new pitching candidates will likely hold any water. That makes me wonder about the existing backlog as they will be absolutely buried once the Clemens, Johnson, Maddux, etc. glut starts.

              Pitchers receiving votes in this election, listed by number of people voting for them:
              7 Rick Reuschel
              4 Eppa Rixey, Urban Shocker
              3 Tony Mullane, Billy Pierce
              2 Burleigh Grimes
              1 Rollie Fingers, Lefty Gomez, Don Newcombe

              Now is a good time to look at (a) how these pitchers stack up against each other and (b) if there's any eligible pitcher not presently receiving support who might be comparable or better than the cream of this crop. I'm not suggesting a certain number of pitchers is required, but it's reasonable that on a twelve-man ballot, one or two of the candidates will be a pitcher and I hope we're not just throwing names up there haphazardly. With a good four or five years before the big glut of modern shoo-ins starts hitting the ballot, now is the best time to rethink and campaign for some of these leftovers.

              Food for thought on our pitching leftovers?
              "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
              "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
              "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
              "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

              Comment


              • #22
                As noted earlier, all of last election's voters have now voted, so we have quorums on both ballots. If anyone else wants to vote, they're certainly welcome to do so.

                That said, I'll post next year's new candidates. First, the players:
                Code:
                Baines , Harold
                Bell , George
                Eisenreich , Jim 
                Gullickson , Bill
                Henderson , Rickey
                Kile , Darryl
                Phillips , Tony
                Raines , Tim
                Sandberg , Ryne
                The top three of that group should be Henderson, Sandberg and Raines, and I'd expect them to sweep the three spots next available next election. The contributors add:
                Code:
                Bouton , Jim
                Caray , Skip
                Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Brad Harris View Post
                  Food for thought on our pitching leftovers?
                  The top 51 pitchers in my personal rankings to date have been elected. Pitcher #52 is Eppa Rixey. Rixey is 29th all time in IP with 4494 innings over 21 seasons (no small feat even in his time); he is 28th in batters faced with 18,754. Often times he would be among the league leaders in IP, BF, games started, etc. In all that time he had only two stinker seasons (1914, 1919) while posting seven seasons of at least 1100 BF and an ERA+ north of 110. Overall, he averaged a modest 115 ERA+ and 1.272 WHIP. The guy was a modicum of consistency whose real-life wins and losses (266-251) make him look worse than he was (one method of adjusted wins has him at 275-224). For the war credit voters, remember also that Rixey missed his age 27 season serving in World War I and his age 28 season suffered for it. Finally, if I may dust off the old Win Shares method... Rixey is credited with 315 Win Shares, and posted eight 20+ Win Share seasons. Rixey is both a member of Cooperstown and the Hall of Merit.

                  I liken Rixey to several pitchers who have already been elected (Don Sutton, Red Faber, Red Ruffing). It's fair to put him at the bottom of that list. That said, behind Rixey are a couple more workhorse pitchers I'm seriously looking at: Tommy John and Jack Quinn. Then we've got pitchers like Jim Kaat, Dick Redding and Burleigh Grimes bringing up the rear.
                  Last edited by J W; 07-21-2011, 11:58 AM.
                  http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploa...-showalter.gif

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    My next 5 pitchers:

                    1. Rick Reuschel--3548.1 IP with a 114 ERA+, 3 AS, 1 GG, an excellent pitcher despite bad teams with the Cubs. Some flashes of brilliance late in his career with the Pirates and Giants.

                    2. Urban Shocker--Short career (13 seasons, 2681 IP) but superb peak, 146 gray ink, 124 career ERA+

                    3. Jack Quinn--3920.1 IP with a 114 ERA+, long career, effective for many years, 8 seasons 3.0 WAR or better, 138 gray ink

                    4. Burleigh Grimes--WAR sells him short; very effective in his era. 4180.0 IP, 108 ERA+, 38 black ink, 213 gray ink.

                    5. Eppa Rixey--4494.2 IP, 115 ERA+, not quite as effective in his era as Grimes, but still solid with 172 Gray ink.

                    I am firm in both Reuschel and Shocker. I'm not as much so on Quinn, Grimes and Rixey and doubt any of them will make it onto my ballot in this project.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      My top ten currently eligible starting pitchers look something like this:

                      1. Rick Reuschel
                      2. Billy Pierce
                      3. Tony Mullane
                      4. Tommy John
                      5. Urban Shocker
                      6. Eppa Rixey
                      7. Dave Stieb
                      8. Vic Willis
                      9. Don Newcombe
                      10. Eddie Cicotte

                      Newcomers for next year:
                      1. Rickey Henderson
                      2. Tim Raines
                      3. Ryne Sandberg
                      4...12. holdovers
                      "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                      "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                      "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                      "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Uh-oh. Mine looks quite different. Well, I might as well list what I've got so it can be picked apart:

                        1. Eppa Rixey
                        2. Rollie Fingers
                        3. Billy Pierce
                        4. Lee Smith
                        5. Tommy John
                        6. Carl Mays
                        7. Lefty Gomez
                        8. Jim Kaat
                        9. Mickey Welch
                        10. Jack Quinn
                        11. Vic Willis
                        12. Urban Shocker
                        13. Tommy Bridges
                        14. Tony Mullane
                        15. Bruce Sutter
                        16. Dan Quisenberry
                        17. Eddie Cicotte
                        18. Dick Redding
                        19. Chief Bender
                        20. Dave Steib
                        21. Jim McCormick
                        22. Virgil Trucks
                        23. Tom Henke
                        24. Orel Hershiser
                        25. Harry Brecheen
                        26. Jerry Koosman
                        27. Wilbur Cooper
                        28. Bucky Walters
                        29. Rick Reuschel
                        30. Dennis Martinez
                        31. Larry Jackson
                        32. Kent Tekulve
                        33. Don Newcombe
                        34. Lew Burdette
                        35. Noodles Hahn
                        36. Silver King
                        37. Sparky Lyle
                        38. Andy Cooper
                        39. Milt Pappas
                        40. Vida Blue
                        41. Eddie Rommel
                        42. Jack Morris
                        43. Burleigh Grimes
                        44. Herb Pennock
                        45. Catfish Hunter
                        46. Charlie Buffinton
                        47. Ron Guidry
                        48. Mickey Lolich
                        49. Waite Hoyt
                        50. Mike Marshall
                        http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploa...-showalter.gif

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          This election has ended with the usual 11 player ballots and 10 contributor ballots. We elected Wade Boggs, Rick Reuschel and Alan Trammell among the players and Al Munro Elias among the contributors. The full results will follow, players first:

                          Code:
                          Players…………	votes	pts
                          Boggs, Wade	11	132
                          Trammell, Alan	11	118
                          Reuschel, Rick	7	49
                          Freehan, Bill	9	47
                          Brock, Lou	6	44
                          Dawson, Andre	7	39
                          Smith, Reggie	7	38
                          Aparicio, Luis	6	37
                          Evans, Dwight	6	37
                          Rixey , Eppa	4	31
                          Trouppe, Quincy	7	29
                          Bando, Sal	4	27
                          Beckley , Jake	4	26
                          Sheckard , J	5	22
                          Berger , Wally	3	21
                          Childs , Cupid	3	16
                          Shocker, Urban	4	16
                          Grimes , B	2	15
                          Mullane , Tony	3	11
                          Pierce, Billy	3	10
                          Howard, Frank	1	9
                          Sewell , Joe	1	9
                          Cepeda, Orlando	1	8
                          Dandridge, Ray	2	8
                          Fingers, Rollie	1	8
                          Lundy , Dick	1	8
                          Evans, Darrell	1	7
                          Gomez, Lefty	1	7
                          McVey , Cal	1	7
                          Duffy , Hugh	2	6
                          Perez, Tony	2	4
                          Leach , Tommy	1	3
                          Murphy, Dale	1	3
                          Nettles, Graig	2	3
                          Newcombe, Don	1	2
                          Evers, Johnny	1	1
                          Now the contributors:
                          Code:
                          Contributors……	votes	pts
                          Elias, Al Munro	8	25
                          Abe, Iso	7	24
                          Neft, David	6	17
                          Evans, Billy	5	16
                          Caylor , O. P.	3	14
                          Steinbrenner, G	4	7
                          Mizuhara, S	4	6
                          Caray, Harry	1	5
                          Jobe, Frank	1	5
                          Pesky, Johnny	1	5
                          Martin, Billy	1	4
                          O'Doul, Lefty	1	4
                          Smith, Red	1	4
                          Harris , Bucky	1	3
                          Uecker, Bob	1	3
                          Harvey, Doug	2	2
                          Harwell, Ernie	1	2
                          Howsam, Bob	1	2
                          McCarthy, Tommy	1	2
                          Last edited by jalbright; 07-31-2011, 10:53 AM.
                          Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                          Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                          A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                          Comment

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