Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

BBF Progressive HoF Election: 1901 (Test)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • BBF Progressive HoF Election: 1901 (Test)

    PLEASE READ BEFORE VOTING!

    Last year we conducted mock Hall of Fame elections beginning with 1979. That project proved very successful, so we’re going to try it again, but this time start at 1901.

    Format and Rules
    For the sake of simplification, convenience, and continuity, we will adopt the rules currently employed by the BBWAA and apply them throughout, with the exception of modifications made for the 1901 election as described below:

    - Voting Rules: Voters may vote for between 0-10 candidates. A "None of the Above" option is available if you believe no one is worthy and you wish to submit a blank ballot. PLEASE LIMIT YOUR BALLOT TO 10 VOTES AT MOST. EXCESS VOTES MAY RESULT IN YOUR BALLOT BEING DISQUALIFIED. Votes will be made public so we can ensure that people are not voting for more than 10 candidates (I also encourage you to not view the results until after you cast your vote).

    - Editing Ballots: Please review and consider your ballot thoroughly before submitting, as requests for editing ballots after the fact will generally not be honored. Exceptions might be made if a voter accidentally checked on a wrong player, or accidentally went over the 10 player limit (but in both instances, I strongly encourage you do your best to prevent either from happening).

    - Required Support: 75% support or greater will elect a player. Players receiving less than 5% will be dropped from all future elections . Players receiving 5% or more but less than 75% will stay on the ballot for the next election, unless that player's 15-year eligibility is over (see next paragraph).

    - Player Eligibility: Players eligible for an election will have last played at least 5 years prior to the election year and have appeared in at least 10 major league seasons. Players will remain on the ballot for 15 years, provided they continue to receive at least 5% of the vote.

    - Election Period: Elections will close exactly a week after starting. The next election might not commence for another day or two.

    1901 Rule Modifications
    Given that this is the first election and thus more history to cover than subsequent elections, the following rule modifications will apply:

    -Player Eligibility: Taking into account that the conditions of the day may have prevented extended careers, the 10 year rule is modified so that players appearing in at least 7 major league seasons between 1871 and 1896 will be eligible. Players from before this period, or who do not meet the 7 year requirement, will be eligible for the Veterans Committee (likely imaginary), provided their last appearance was no later than 1881. If a player retired by 1896 but subsequently reappeared before 1901, they will not be eligible for this election and will be eligible 5 years from their last appearance (for example, Arlie Latham seemingly last played in 1896, but appeared again in 1899, so his first year of eligibility will be in 1904 (he might become eligible again in 1914 as well due to a brief appearance in 1909)).

    - More Player Eligibility: Every player eligible for this election will have 15 years of eligibility regardless of when they retired prior to 1896 (provided they played at least 7 seasons and continue to meet the 5% rule).

    - Ballot Size: The 1901 ballot will likely be larger than usual (78 candidates) to account for the longer historical period. So while this ballot might look cumbersome due to its length, it should not be indicative of a typical ballot.

    - Support Requirements: The 5% drop rule is waived for this election to account for a potentially large number of worthy candidates. However, a player must receive at least one vote in order to be on the 1902 ballot (at which point the 5% rule will apply).


    Guide
    Future elections will contain a more detailed guide summarizing past results and the status of candidates on the current ballot.

    Actual Hall of Fame Players on Ballot (10):
    HTML Code:
    Player			Election Year
    Dan Brouthers		1945 (VC)
    John Clarkson		1963 (VC)
    Pud Galvin		1965 (VC)
    Tim Keefe		1964 (VC)
    King Kelly		1945 (VC)
    Tommy McCarthy		1946 (VC)
    Jim O’Rourke		1945 (VC)
    Charley Radbourn	1939 (VC)
    John Ward		1964 (VC)
    Mickey Welch		1973 (VC)
    217
    Mark Baldwin, SP (1887-1893)
    0.00%
    0
    Ross Barnes, 2B (1871-1879, 1881)
    3.23%
    7
    Charlie Bennett, C (1878, 1880-1893)
    1.84%
    4
    George Bradley, SP (1875-1877, 1879-1884)
    0.00%
    0
    Dan Brouthers, 1B (1879-1896)
    9.68%
    21
    Pete Browning, CF (1882-1894)
    3.23%
    7
    Charlie Buffinton, SP (1882-1892)
    0.00%
    0
    Jack Burdock, 2B (1872-1888, 1891)
    0.00%
    0
    Oyster Burns, RF (1884-1885, 1887-1895)
    0.92%
    2
    Tom Burns, 3B/SS (1880-1892)
    0.00%
    0
    Fred Carroll, C/LF (1884-1891)
    0.00%
    0
    Bob Caruthers, SP/RF (1884-1893)
    1.84%
    4
    Elton Chamberlain, SP (1886-1894, 1896)
    0.00%
    0
    John Clapp, C (1872-1881, 1883)
    0.00%
    0
    John Clarkson, SP (1882, 1884-1894)
    7.37%
    16
    Charlie Comiskey, 1B (1882-1894)
    0.92%
    2
    Larry Corcoran, SP (1880-1887)
    0.46%
    1
    Abner Dalrymple, LF (1878-1888, 1891)
    0.46%
    1
    Jerry Denny, 3B (1881-1894)
    0.00%
    0
    Fred Dunlap, 2B (1880-1891)
    0.46%
    1
    Jack Farrell, 2B (1879-1889)
    0.00%
    0
    Bob Ferguson, 3B/2B (1871-1884)
    0.00%
    0
    Silver Flint, C (1875, 1878-1889)
    0.46%
    1
    Davy Force, SS (1871-1877, 1879-1886)
    0.00%
    0
    Dave Foutz, 1B/SP (1884-1896)
    0.00%
    0
    Pud Galvin, SP (1875, 1879-1892)
    5.07%
    11
    Jack Glasscock, SS (1879-1895)
    2.30%
    5
    George Gore, CF (1879-1892)
    0.92%
    2
    Ned Hanlon, CF (1880-1892)
    0.46%
    1
    Guy Hecker, SP/1B (1882-1890)
    0.00%
    0
    Paul Hines, CF (1872-1891)
    4.61%
    10
    Charley Jones, LF (1875-1880, 1883-1888)
    0.00%
    0
    Tim Keefe, SP (1880-1893)
    7.37%
    16
    King Kelly, RF/C (1878-1892)
    6.91%
    15
    Henry Larkin, 1B (1884-1893)
    0.00%
    0
    Jack Manning, RF/SP (1873-1878, 1880-1881, 1883-1886)
    0.00%
    0
    Bobby Mathews, SP (1871-1879, 1881-1887)
    0.00%
    0
    Tommy McCarthy, RF (1884-1896)
    0.00%
    0
    Jim McCormick, SP (1878-1887)
    0.46%
    1
    Cal McVey, C/1B (1871-1879)
    0.92%
    2
    Levi Meyerle, 3B (1871-1877, 1884)
    0.00%
    0
    Doggie Miller, C (1884-1896)
    0.00%
    0
    John Morrill, 1B (1876-1890)
    0.00%
    0
    Ed Morris, SP (1884-1890)
    0.00%
    0
    Tony Mullane, SP (1881-1884, 1886-1894)
    1.84%
    4
    Candy Nelson, SS (1872-1875, 1878-1879, 1881, 1883-1887, 1890)
    0.00%
    0
    Tip O'Neill, LF (1883-1892)
    0.92%
    2
    Jim O'Rourke, LF (1872-1893)
    7.37%
    16
    Dave Orr, 1B (1883-1890)
    0.00%
    0
    John Peters, SS (1874-1884)
    0.00%
    0
    Bill Phillips, 1B (1879-1888)
    0.00%
    0
    Lip Pike, CF (1871-1878, 1881, 1887)
    0.46%
    1
    George Pinkney, 3B (1884-1893)
    0.00%
    0
    Blondie Purcell, OF/SP (1879-1890)
    0.00%
    0
    Charley Radbourn, SP (1881-1891)
    7.37%
    16
    John Reilly, 1B (1880, 1883-1891)
    0.00%
    0
    Hardy Richardson, 2B/LF (1879-1892)
    0.46%
    1
    Yank Robinson, 2B (1882, 1884-1892)
    0.00%
    0
    Jack Rowe, SS/C (1879-1890)
    0.00%
    0
    Orator Shaffer, RF (1874-1875, 1877-1886, 1890)
    0.00%
    0
    Pop Snyder, C (1873-1879, 1881-1891)
    0.00%
    0
    Al Spalding, SP (1871-1877)
    3.23%
    7
    Harry Staley, SP (1888-1895)
    0.00%
    0
    Joe Start, 1B (1871-1886)
    2.30%
    5
    Harry Stovey, LF/1B (1880-1893)
    1.84%
    4
    Ezra Sutton, 3B (1871-1888)
    0.92%
    2
    John Ward, SS/SP (1878-1894)
    3.23%
    7
    Curt Welch, CF (1884-1893)
    0.00%
    0
    Mickey Welch, SP (1880-1892)
    2.76%
    6
    Deacon White, 3B/C (1871-1890)
    5.53%
    12
    Will White, SP (1877-1886)
    0.00%
    0
    Jim Whitney, SP (1881-1890)
    0.00%
    0
    Ned Williamson, 3B (1878-1890)
    0.00%
    0
    Sam Wise, SS/2B (1881-1891, 1893)
    0.00%
    0
    Jimmy Wolf, RF (1882-1892)
    0.00%
    0
    George Wood, LF (1880-1892)
    0.00%
    0
    Tom York, LF (1871-1885)
    0.00%
    0
    George Wright, SS (1871-1882)
    1.84%
    4
    None of the Above (Blank Ballot)
    0.00%
    0

    The poll is expired.

    Last edited by DoubleX; 04-27-2008, 03:39 PM.

  • #2
    Went with
    Brouthers
    Clarkson
    Galvin
    Gore
    Hines
    Keefe
    King Kelly
    Radbourn
    Stovey
    Deacon White

    Will vote for (so long as I have a chance)
    Bennett
    Glasscock
    Mullane
    Richardson
    Start
    Sutton

    oops! Missed him this time
    Jim O'Rourke
    Last edited by jalbright; 04-27-2008, 11:59 AM.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

    Comment


    • #3
      Is there a reason Al Spalding is not on the ballot?

      I'm assuming Candy Cummings is not listed because he did not play 7 years.

      Comment


      • #4
        Tentatively, I will be voting for :
        Dan Brouthers
        Tim Keefe
        John Clarkson
        Ross Barnes
        Jim O'Rourke
        King Kelly
        Harry Stovey
        Charley Radbourn
        Pete Browning
        Jim McCormick

        Still not sure what keeps Spalding off the ballot.
        If he becomes eligible, I will replace McCormick with Al Spalding.
        I'll wait to vote until I hear an answer.

        There are so many good players here. Easily 10-15 more I could eventually vote for.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by dgarza View Post
          Is there a reason Al Spalding is not on the ballot?

          I'm assuming Candy Cummings is not listed because he did not play 7 years.
          Good catch with Spalding. I'll add him at the end and I'll honor any requests from those who have already voted to change a vote for him. Cummings missed due to eligibility (had to cut the line somewhere).

          EDIT: I've inserted Spalding into his alphabetical place, moving everyone below down one and carrying their vote totals with them. That's why when you click on the totals for someone like Deacon White or John Ward, you don't see who voted for them, but the votes are there.
          Last edited by DoubleX; 04-27-2008, 11:43 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            It was tough to make the cutoff here. I didn't realize how many good candidates there are. I might have to further modify the drop rule if seems a number of decent candidates fail to even receive a vote in this election due to the numbers crunch.

            I voted for these 10:

            Dan Brouthers
            Pete Browning
            John Clarkson
            Jack Glasscock
            Paul Hines
            Tim Keefe
            Jim O'Rourke
            Charley Radbourn
            John Ward
            Deacon White

            In the future, I can see possibly voting for at least:

            Ross Barnes
            Charlie Bennett
            Bob Caruthers
            Dave Foutz
            Pud Galvin
            George Gore
            King Kelly
            Jim McCormick
            Cal McVey
            Tony Mullane
            Hardy Richardson
            Al Spalding
            Joe Start
            Harry Stovey
            Ezra Sutton
            Mickey Welch

            Comment


            • #7
              When does this poll close? I'm going to need some time to mull over my choices as there are quite a few on that list that I support.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post
                When does this poll close? I'm going to need some time to mull over my choices as there are quite a few on that list that I support.
                The poll itself contains the answer: 5/4 at a specific hour (2:08 PM is what shows for me, though it may differ by what time zone you've inputted for yourself).
                Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'd like to add that there is nothing wrong with voting strategically, and it perhaps should be encouraged in this election. We should of course aim to get as many people elected as possible, but if you're at the end of your ballot and you're torn between a guy that will probably get at least some support, and a guy that might get no support in this election, you might want to go with the latter in order to ensure he'll stick on the ballot. For instance, I was about to vote for King Kelly, but I figured if he's not elected this time, he'll almost certainly stick around, so I went with Jack Glasscock instead. I'm sure Glasscock will get some support at some point, but with so many good candidates this time, I wouldn't be surprised if he fell to the numbers crunch and got no support this time.

                  This is why I might need to further modify the drop rule for this year. I can see guys that might eventually get decent support, such as Welch, Mullane, McCormick, Bennett, Sutton, and others, perhaps being dropped due to zero support in this election, and that would be ashame.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by DoubleX View Post
                    This is why I might need to further modify the drop rule for this year. I can see guys that might eventually get decent support, such as Welch, Mullane, McCormick, Bennett, Sutton, and others, perhaps being dropped due to zero support in this election, and that would be ashame.
                    Maybe you could do a push for a few candidates until we get through the first dozen elections. At the end of each cycle, you could publish the list of candidates that had zero votes and ask if anyone out there wants to make a legitimate case for any of them. If someone steps forward, keep them viable. If no one does, drop them from the eligible pool of candidates.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post
                      Maybe you could do a push for a few candidates until we get through the first dozen elections. At the end of each cycle, you could publish the list of candidates that had zero votes and ask if anyone out there wants to make a legitimate case for any of them. If someone steps forward, keep them viable. If no one does, drop them from the eligible pool of candidates.
                      I was thinking of something like that. I don't know if I'd do it for the first dozen elections, but maybe for the first few. One idea could be for voters to do what Jim and I did, which is to submit a list of players you might vote for down the line.

                      In fact, I'll encourage that now. I'd appreciate it if voters could post a list of players they think they might vote for when their ballot opens up. If there are players regularly on these lists, I'll probably waive the drop rule for them.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Voted for:

                        Ross Barnes
                        Charlie Bennett
                        Dan Brouthers
                        Pud Galvin
                        Jack Glasscock
                        Paul Hines
                        Charley Radbourn
                        Hardy Richardson
                        Joe Start
                        Deacon White

                        Would vote for if the opportunity arises:

                        Charlie Buffinton
                        Bob Caruthers
                        John Clarkson
                        Tim Keefe
                        King Kelly
                        Tony Mullane
                        Lip Pike
                        Al Spalding
                        Harry Stovey
                        Ezra Sutton

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Mark Baldwin, SP (1887-1893) no way
                          Ross Barnes, 2B (1871-1879, 1881) made ballot
                          Charlie Bennett, C (1878, 1880-1893) made ballot

                          George Bradley, SP (1875-1877, 1879-1884) no way
                          Dan Brouthers, 1B (1879-1896) made ballot
                          Pete Browning, CF (1882-1894) maybe someday

                          Charlie Buffinton, SP (1882-1892) no way
                          Jack Burdock, 2B (1872-1888, 1891) no way
                          Oyster Burns, RF (1884-1885, 1887-1895) no way
                          Tom Burns, 3B/SS (1880-1892) no way
                          Fred Carroll, C/LF (1884-1891) no way
                          Bob Caruthers, SP/RF (1884-1893) eventually
                          Elton Chamberlain, SP (1886-1894, 1896) no way
                          John Clapp, C (1872-1881, 1883) no way
                          John Clarkson, SP (1882, 1884-1894) made ballot
                          Charlie Comiskey, 1B (1882-1894) support as contributor, but not player
                          Larry Corcoran, SP (1880-1887) no way
                          Abner Dalrymple, LF (1878-1888, 1891) no way
                          Jerry Denny, 3B (1881-1894) no way
                          Fred Dunlap, 2B (1880-1891) doubtfull Jack Farrell, 2B (1879-1889) no way
                          Bob Ferguson, 3B/2B (1871-1884) doubtfullSilver Flint, C (1875, 1878-1889) no way
                          Davy Force, SS (1871-1877, 1879-1886) no way
                          Dave Foutz, 1B/SP (1884-1896) no way
                          Pud Galvin, SP (1875, 1879-1892) eventually
                          Jack Glasscock, SS (1879-1895) maybe
                          George Gore, CF (1879-1892) eventually

                          Ned Hanlon, CF (1880-1892) not as a player
                          Guy Hecker, SP/1B (1882-1890) no way
                          Paul Hines, CF (1872-1891) made ballot
                          Charley Jones, LF (1875-1880, 1883-1888) maybe
                          Tim Keefe, SP (1880-1893) eventually
                          King Kelly, RF/C (1878-1892) made ballot

                          Henry Larkin, 1B (1884-1893) no way
                          Jack Manning, RF/SP (1873-1878, 1880-1881, 1883-1886) no way
                          Bobby Mathews, SP (1871-1879, 1881-1887) no way
                          Tommy McCarthy, RF (1884-1896) no way
                          Jim McCormick, SP (1878-1887) no way
                          Cal McVey, C/1B (1871-1879) 1 20.00% made ballot
                          Levi Meyerle, 3B (1871-1877, 1884) doubtfull
                          Doggie Miller, C (1884-1896) no way
                          John Morrill, 1B (1876-1890) no way
                          Ed Morris, SP (1884-1890) no way
                          Tony Mullane, SP (1881-1884, 1886-1894) made ballot Candy Nelson, SS (1872-1875, 1878-1879, 1881, 1883-1887, 1890) no way and what up with all the missed years?
                          Tip O'Neill, LF (1883-1892) no way
                          Jim O'Rourke, LF (1872-1893) made ballot
                          Dave Orr, 1B (1883-1890) doubtfull

                          John Peters, SS (1874-1884) no way
                          Bill Phillips, 1B (1879-1888) no way
                          Lip Pike, CF (1871-1878, 1881, 1887) maybe
                          George Pinkney, 3B (1884-1893) no way
                          Blondie Purcell, OF/SP (1879-1890) no way
                          Charley Radbourn, SP (1881-1891) eventually
                          John Reilly, 1B (1880, 1883-1891) no way
                          Hardy Richardson, 2B/LF (1879-1892) maybe
                          Yank Robinson, 2B (1882, 1884-1892) no way
                          Jack Rowe, SS/C (1879-1890) doubtfull
                          Orator Shaffer, RF (1874-1875, 1877-1886, 1890) no way
                          Pop Snyder, C (1873-1879, 1881-1891) no way
                          Al Spalding, SP (1871-1877) eventually
                          Harry Staley, SP (1888-1895) no way
                          Joe Start, 1B (1871-1886) eventually
                          Harry Stovey, LF/1B (1880-1893) eventually
                          Ezra Sutton, 3B (1871-1888) maybe

                          John Ward, SS/SP (1878-1894) made ballot
                          Curt Welch, CF (1884-1893) no way
                          Mickey Welch, SP (1880-1892) doubtfull
                          Deacon White, 3B/C (1871-1890) made ballot
                          Will White, SP (1877-1886) no way
                          Jim Whitney, SP (1881-1890) no way
                          Ned Williamson, 3B (1878-1890) doubtfull
                          Sam Wise, SS/2B (1881-1891, 1893) no way
                          Jimmy Wolf, RF (1882-1892) no way
                          George Wood, LF (1880-1892) no way
                          Tom York, LF (1871-1885) no way


                          --Bolded those I pl;an to vote for or at least consider voting for. We'll definately lose some good candidates if we drop everyone who doesn't get a vote. I'd keep everybody on a list like those offered so far thru say 1905. The one vote to stick rule ought to work by then. The 5% rule I think needs to wait until at least 1910 when we've made our way through most of the backlog.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by leecemark View Post
                            --Bolded those I pl;an to vote for or at least consider voting for. We'll definately lose some good candidates if we drop everyone who doesn't get a vote. I'd keep everybody on a list like those offered so far thru say 1905. The one vote to stick rule ought to work by then. The 5% rule I think needs to wait until at least 1910 when we've made our way through most of the backlog.
                            Ok, I've decided what we'll do for the time being, unless there are any objections. I'll postpone the 5% rule for at least the first 5 elections. As for the one vote rule, we'll drop it for this election and decide whether to use it on an election by election basis for the first five years.

                            At the end of this election, I'll post a list of players that did not receive a vote but who will appear on the next ballot anyway. This will mostly be based on voters expressing a future possibility of voting for those players, but I'll leave some time for people to express a desire to have more players added to that list.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Ross Barnes, 2B (1871-1879, 1881)
                              Charlie Bennett, C (1878, 1880-1893)

                              Dan Brouthers, 1B (1879-1896)
                              Pete Browning, CF (1882-1894)
                              Bob Caruthers, SP/RF (1884-1893)
                              John Clarkson, SP (1882, 1884-1894)
                              Fred Dunlap, 2B (1880-1891)
                              Pud Galvin, SP (1875, 1879-1892)
                              Jack Glasscock, SS (1879-1895)
                              George Gore, CF (1879-1892)
                              Ned Hanlon, CF (1880-1892)
                              Paul Hines, CF (1872-1891)
                              Charley Jones, LF (1875-1880, 1883-1888)
                              Tim Keefe, SP (1880-1893)
                              King Kelly, RF/C (1878-1892)
                              Tommy McCarthy, RF (1884-1896)
                              Jim McCormick, SP (1878-1887)
                              Cal McVey, C/1B (1871-1879)
                              Tony Mullane, SP (1881-1884, 1886-1894)

                              Tip O'Neill, LF (1883-1892)
                              Jim O'Rourke, LF (1872-1893)
                              Lip Pike, CF (1871-1878, 1881, 1887)
                              Charley Radbourn, SP (1881-1891)
                              Hardy Richardson, 2B/LF (1879-1892)
                              Al Spalding, SP (1871-1877)
                              Joe Start, 1B (1871-1886)
                              Harry Stovey, LF/1B (1880-1893)
                              Ezra Sutton, 3B (1871-1888)
                              John Ward, SS/SP (1878-1894)
                              Mickey Welch, SP (1880-1892)
                              Deacon White, 3B/C (1871-1890)
                              Ned Williamson, 3B (1878-1890)
                              George Wright, SS (1871-1882)

                              Bold are the ones I voted for this time, italic are the ones I will probably vote for in future elections, the others remaining there's a possibility that they might appear on my ballot at some point. The ones I left off will never make my ballot.
                              Last edited by Erik Bedard; 04-28-2008, 12:22 PM.

                              Comment

                              Ad Widget

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X