BBF Progressive HoF Election: 1901 (Real)

[DoubleX]

PLEASE READ BEFORE VOTING!

Ok, we're going to try this again, hopefully working out some of the bigger problems.

Format and Rules
For the sake of simplification, convenience, and continuity, we will adopt the rules currently employed by the BBWAA and apply them throughout, with the exception of modifications made for first five elections (and perhaps longer if necessary):

Voting Rules: For at least the first five elections, voters may vote for between 0-15 candidates (the number will be eventually be cut to 10). A "None of the Above" option is available if you believe no one is worthy and you wish to submit a blank ballot. PLEASE LIMIT YOUR BALLOT TO 15 VOTES AT MOST. EXCESS VOTES MAY RESULT IN YOUR BALLOT BEING DISQUALIFIED. Votes will be made public, and voters are encouraged to post their ballots in the thread and not view results before voting.

Thoughtfulness and Editing Ballots: Please review and thoughtfully consider the candidates before voting, and make sure you have accurately filled out your ballot before submitting. Requests for editing ballots after the fact will generally not be honored. Exceptions might be made if a voter accidentally voted for the wrong player or accidentally went over the voting limit (but I strongly encourage you to do your best to prevent both from happening).

Required Support: Players receiving at least 75% support in an election will be elected. For the first five elections, a player must receive at least one vote to appear on the next ballot, though extra considerations may be made for players not receiving a vote in the first election. After the first five elections, players will need at least 5% support to stay on the ballot.

Player Eligibility: Players eligible for an election will have last played at least 5 years prior to the election year and have appeared in at least 10 major league seasons. Players will remain on the ballot for 15 years, provided they continue to receive at least 5% of the vote.
- Early Election Modifications: To be eligible for the first election, players must have played at least 7 seasons between 1871 and 1896. The next four elections will have an 8 year rule. Players from before this period, or who do not meet the 7 year requirement, will be eligible for the Veterans Committee (likely imaginary), provided their last appearance was no later than 1881. Players eligible in the first election will be eligible for 15 years, regardless of when they retired, and provided they meet the minimum support requirements.

Election Period: Elections will close exactly a week after starting. The next election might not commence for another day or two.

Guide
Future elections will contain a more detailed guide summarizing past results and the status of candidates on the current ballot.

First Time Eligible Players (78)
Mark Baldwin
Ross Barnes
Charlie Bennett
George Bradley
Dan Brouthers
Pete Browning
Charlie Buffinton
Jack Burdock
Oyster Burns
Tom Burns
Fred Carroll
Bob Caruthers
Elton Chamberlain
John Clapp
John Clarkson
Charlie Comiskey
Larry Corcoran
Abner Dalrymple
Jerry Denny
Fred Dunlap
Jack Farrell
Bob Ferguson
Silver Flint
Davy Force
Dave Foutz
Pud Galvin
Jack Glasscock
George Gore
Ned Hanlon
Guy Hecker
Paul Hines
Charley Jones
Tim Keefe
King kelly
Henry Larkin
Jack Manning
Bobby Mathews
Tommy McCarthy
Jim McCormick
Cal McVey
Levin Meyerle
Doggie Miller
John Morrill
Ed Morris
Tony Mullane
Candy Nelson
Tip O'Neill
Jim O'Rourke
Dave Orr
John Peter
Bill Phillips
Lip Pike
George Pinkney
Blondie Purcell
Charley Radbourn
John Reilly
Hardy Richardson
Yank Robinson
Jack Rowe
Orator Shaffer
Pop Snyder
Al Spalding
Harry Staley
Joe Start
Harry Stovey
Ezra Sutton
John Ward
Curt Welch
Mickey Welch
Deacon White
Will White
Jim Whitney
Ned Williamson
Sam Wise
Jimmy Wolf
George Wood
George Wright
Tom York

Actual Hall of Fame Players on Ballot (10):

Player			Election Year
Dan Brouthers		1945 (VC)
John Clarkson		1963 (VC)
Pud Galvin		1965 (VC)
Tim Keefe		1964 (VC)
King Kelly		1945 (VC)
Tommy McCarthy		1946 (VC)
Jim O’Rourke		1945 (VC)
Charley Radbourn	1939 (VC)
John Ward		1964 (VC)
Mickey Welch		1973 (VC)

[Sockeye]

My Ballot

1, John Clarkson
2. Pud Galvin
3. Tim Keefe
4. Charley Radbourn
5. Mickey Welch

[DoubleX]

Even with the expanded ballot, I had to make some tought cuts. I voted for:

Charlie Bennett
Dan Brouthers
Pete Browning
John Clarkson
Jack Glasscock
George Gore
Paul Hines
Tim Keefe
King Kelly
Tony Mullane
Jim O'Rourke
Charley Radbourn
Ezra Sutton
John Ward
Deacon White

Those who just missed the cut:

Hardy Richardson
Jim McCormick
Joe Start
Fred Dunlap
Mickey Welch
Dave Foutz

[Brooklyn]

Brouthers, Clarkson, Galvin, Keefe, Mullane, O'Rourke, Radbourn, Spalding, Welch, White

[DoubleX]

Brouthers, Clarkson, Galvin, Keefe, Mullane, O'Rourke, Radbourn, Spalding, Welch, White

Brooklyn, you know you can up vote for up to 15 now, right?

[AG2004]

My Ballot

1, John Clarkson
2. Pud Galvin
3. Tim Keefe
4. Charley Radbourn
5. Mickey Welch

5 pitchers and no position players. Why?

Take a look at Dan Brouthers. He was a tremendous hitter, going .342/.423/.519. Do you realize how good that .519 slugging percentage is? When the pitching distance was increased to 60'6" seven years ago, a large increase in offense resulted. Batting averages increased, OBP increased, and yet Brouthers' .519 slugging percentage is still the highest career mark in major league history (although Lajoie of Philadelphia could exceed it in a few more seasons). He's first in offensive black ink by a large margin, with 79 points. Second place is held by Ross Barnes, with 59 -- 20 points behind Brouthers. Brouthers' OPS+ of 170 is also the highest career mark in the history of base ball.

Yet, Sockeye, you have omitted Brouthers from your ballot. If Brouthers is not worthy of honor, is it possible for any hitter to ever achieve your standards? Galvin and Welch may be second-tier pitchers from the 1880s, but you still see fit to list them. Is the best eligible batter inferior to a second-tier pitcher? Is Brouthers not worthy of making your list?

[NOTE: This is the 1901 election. Hence, as far as this entire thread is concerned, I am pretending that is April 1, 1901, and I have no idea what will happen in the upcoming century. If you mention any players from after that date, I will claim not to know who they are, and will say "there's no record of such a player" in my response. Consider yourself warned.]

[dgarza]

5 pitchers and no position players. Why?

Sockeye's votes have a history of being based on cumulative totals of one or two stats, usually HRs or Wins.

[Freakshow]

My Ballot:

Barnes
Brouthers
Clarkson
Galvin
Glasscock
Gore
Hines
Keefe
Kelly
O'Rourke
Radbourn
Start
Ward
D.White
Wright

[Brooklyn]

Brooklyn, you know you can up vote for up to 15 now, right?

yes. pre-1900 guys are tough for me. For the most part, I think most of them didn't play long enough to warrant election, (which may seem contradictory to me voting for Spalding). I have a hard time weighing the conditions of the time, which is essential for the pre-modern era players.

I'm a small Hall guy - I'd rather not vote for the guys that I'm not sure on. My game plan was to vote for the guys that I thought definitely belonged. In future elections, I'd like to see who else had support and read about other's campaigns for them, which can very well sway me to vote for more.

[DoubleX]

yes. pre-1900 guys are tough for me. For the most part, I think most of them didn't play long enough to warrant election, (which may seem contradictory to me voting for Spalding). I have a hard time weighing the conditions of the time, which is essential for the pre-modern era players.

I'm a small Hall guy - I'd rather not vote for the guys that I'm not sure on. My game plan was to vote for the guys that I thought definitely belonged. In future elections, I'd like to see who else had support and read about other's campaigns for them, which can very well sway me to vote for more.

Fair enough. I saw you voted for 10, and just wanted to make sure that you knew you could vote for more if you wanted to.

[Erik Bedard]

Brouthers
Caruthers (really not sure about this pick)
Clarkson
Galvin
Gore
Hines
Keefe
Kelly
McVey
O'Rourke
Pike
Radbourn
Stovey
Ward
Wright

[AG2004]

Sockeye's votes have a history of being based on cumulative totals of one or two stats, usually HRs or Wins.

Current leaders in career home runs:

1) Roger Connor, 138
2) Sam Thompson, 127
3) Harry Stovey, 122
4) Dan Brouthers, 106
4) Mike Tiernan, 106
6) Jimmy Ryan, 105
7) Hugh Duffy, 104

Only six players have managed to hit twenty home runs in a season. Four of them - Williamson, Pfeffer, Dalrymple, and Anson - played for the 1884 Chicago White Stockings. A rule change that year declared that any ball hit over the 196-foot right field fence was a home run. Sam Thompson hit 20 home runs in 1889, and Buck Freeman managed 25 two years ago, in 1899. Freeman went down to six home runs for the 1900 season; his 1899 total was probably a fluke.

[jjpm74]

Voted for:

1. Ross Barnes
2. Charlie Bennett
3. Dan Brouthers
4. Bob Caruthers
5. Pud Galvin
6. Jack Glasscock
7. Paul Hines
8. Tim Keefe
9. King Kelly
10. Tony Mullane
11. Jim O'Rourke
12. Old Hoss Radbourne
13. Hardy Richardson
14. Harry Stovey
15. Ezra Sutton

I'm likely to vote for these guys if they make it to the 1902 ballot:

1. John Clarkson--I picked Caruthers over Clarkson because I believe that Clarkson will be elected in this or the next ballot but was more concerned that Caruthers stay on the ballot.
2. George Gore
3. Lip Pike
4. Joe Start
5. John Ward
6. Deacon White

I'm unlikely to vote for:

1. Al Spalding--More of a pioneer
2. George Wright--More of a pioneer

I understand why they are on this ballot, but they really belong more with Dickey Pearce in the pioneer's VC, IMO.

[jalbright]

My ballot:

Bennett...	Hines......	Radbourn
Brouthers.... 	Keefe......	Start
Clarkson...	Kelly.......	Stovey
Galvin.....	Mullane....	Ward
Gore.......	O'Rourke..	G. Wright

Waiting in the wings: Glasscock, Sutton, Richardson (in no particular order)

[DoubleX]

[NOTE: This is the 1901 election. Hence, as far as this entire thread is concerned, I am pretending that is April 1, 1901, and I have no idea what will happen in the upcoming century. If you mention any players from after that date, I will claim not to know who they are, and will say "there's no record of such a player" in my response. Consider yourself warned.]

I think this is a good approach. It is hard for us to separate all that we know and use that as a measuring stick for the Hall, but as this project goes, we'll essentially be creating our own standard for the Hall based on who we elect, and that standard should be evolving based on the history to that point. One thing about that though, with professional baseball still in its relative early phases in 1901, our perspective is inherently limited.