Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

BBF Progressive HoF Election: 1901 (Real)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • BBF Progressive HoF Election: 1901 (Real)

    PLEASE READ BEFORE VOTING!

    Ok, we're going to try this again, hopefully working out some of the bigger problems.

    Format and Rules
    For the sake of simplification, convenience, and continuity, we will adopt the rules currently employed by the BBWAA and apply them throughout, with the exception of modifications made for first five elections (and perhaps longer if necessary):

    Voting Rules: For at least the first five elections, voters may vote for between 0-15 candidates (the number will be eventually be cut to 10). A "None of the Above" option is available if you believe no one is worthy and you wish to submit a blank ballot. PLEASE LIMIT YOUR BALLOT TO 15 VOTES AT MOST. EXCESS VOTES MAY RESULT IN YOUR BALLOT BEING DISQUALIFIED. Votes will be made public, and voters are encouraged to post their ballots in the thread and not view results before voting.

    Thoughtfulness and Editing Ballots: Please review and thoughtfully consider the candidates before voting, and make sure you have accurately filled out your ballot before submitting. Requests for editing ballots after the fact will generally not be honored. Exceptions might be made if a voter accidentally voted for the wrong player or accidentally went over the voting limit (but I strongly encourage you to do your best to prevent both from happening).

    Required Support: Players receiving at least 75% support in an election will be elected. For the first five elections, a player must receive at least one vote to appear on the next ballot, though extra considerations may be made for players not receiving a vote in the first election. After the first five elections, players will need at least 5% support to stay on the ballot.

    Player Eligibility: Players eligible for an election will have last played at least 5 years prior to the election year and have appeared in at least 10 major league seasons. Players will remain on the ballot for 15 years, provided they continue to receive at least 5% of the vote.
    - Early Election Modifications: To be eligible for the first election, players must have played at least 7 seasons between 1871 and 1896. The next four elections will have an 8 year rule. Players from before this period, or who do not meet the 7 year requirement, will be eligible for the Veterans Committee (likely imaginary), provided their last appearance was no later than 1881. Players eligible in the first election will be eligible for 15 years, regardless of when they retired, and provided they meet the minimum support requirements.

    Election Period: Elections will close exactly a week after starting. The next election might not commence for another day or two.

    Guide
    Future elections will contain a more detailed guide summarizing past results and the status of candidates on the current ballot.

    First Time Eligible Players (78)
    Mark Baldwin
    Ross Barnes
    Charlie Bennett
    George Bradley
    Dan Brouthers
    Pete Browning
    Charlie Buffinton
    Jack Burdock
    Oyster Burns
    Tom Burns
    Fred Carroll
    Bob Caruthers
    Elton Chamberlain
    John Clapp
    John Clarkson
    Charlie Comiskey
    Larry Corcoran
    Abner Dalrymple
    Jerry Denny
    Fred Dunlap
    Jack Farrell
    Bob Ferguson
    Silver Flint
    Davy Force
    Dave Foutz
    Pud Galvin
    Jack Glasscock
    George Gore
    Ned Hanlon
    Guy Hecker
    Paul Hines
    Charley Jones
    Tim Keefe
    King kelly
    Henry Larkin
    Jack Manning
    Bobby Mathews
    Tommy McCarthy
    Jim McCormick
    Cal McVey
    Levin Meyerle
    Doggie Miller
    John Morrill
    Ed Morris
    Tony Mullane
    Candy Nelson
    Tip O'Neill
    Jim O'Rourke
    Dave Orr
    John Peter
    Bill Phillips
    Lip Pike
    George Pinkney
    Blondie Purcell
    Charley Radbourn
    John Reilly
    Hardy Richardson
    Yank Robinson
    Jack Rowe
    Orator Shaffer
    Pop Snyder
    Al Spalding
    Harry Staley
    Joe Start
    Harry Stovey
    Ezra Sutton
    John Ward
    Curt Welch
    Mickey Welch
    Deacon White
    Will White
    Jim Whitney
    Ned Williamson
    Sam Wise
    Jimmy Wolf
    George Wood
    George Wright
    Tom York

    Actual Hall of Fame Players on Ballot (10):
    HTML Code:
    Player			Election Year
    Dan Brouthers		1945 (VC)
    John Clarkson		1963 (VC)
    Pud Galvin		1965 (VC)
    Tim Keefe		1964 (VC)
    King Kelly		1945 (VC)
    Tommy McCarthy		1946 (VC)
    Jim O’Rourke		1945 (VC)
    Charley Radbourn	1939 (VC)
    John Ward		1964 (VC)
    Mickey Welch		1973 (VC)
    267
    Mark Baldwin, SP (1887-1893)
    0.00%
    0
    Ross Barnes, 2B (1871-1879, 1881)
    3.75%
    10
    Charlie Bennett, C (1878, 1880-1893)
    3.37%
    9
    George Bradley, SP (1875-1877, 1879-1884)
    0.00%
    0
    Dan Brouthers, 1B (1879-1896)
    6.74%
    18
    Pete Browning, CF (1882-1894)
    3.00%
    8
    Charlie Buffinton, SP (1882-1892)
    0.00%
    0
    Jack Burdock, 2B (1872-1888, 1891)
    0.00%
    0
    Oyster Burns, RF (1884-1885, 1887-1895)
    0.00%
    0
    Tom Burns, 3B/SS (1880-1892)
    0.00%
    0
    Fred Carroll, C/LF (1884-1891)
    0.00%
    0
    Bob Caruthers, SP/RF (1884-1893)
    2.25%
    6
    Elton Chamberlain, SP (1886-1894, 1896)
    0.00%
    0
    John Clapp, C (1872-1881, 1883)
    0.00%
    0
    John Clarkson, SP (1882, 1884-1894)
    6.74%
    18
    Charlie Comiskey, 1B (1882-1894)
    0.37%
    1
    Larry Corcoran, SP (1880-1887)
    0.37%
    1
    Abner Dalrymple, LF (1878-1888, 1891)
    0.00%
    0
    Jerry Denny, 3B (1881-1894)
    0.00%
    0
    Fred Dunlap, 2B (1880-1891)
    0.00%
    0
    Jack Farrell, 2B (1879-1889)
    0.00%
    0
    Bob Ferguson, 3B/2B (1871-1884)
    0.37%
    1
    Silver Flint, C (1875, 1878-1889)
    0.00%
    0
    Davy Force, SS (1871-1877, 1879-1886)
    0.00%
    0
    Dave Foutz, 1B/SP (1884-1896)
    0.00%
    0
    Pud Galvin, SP (1875, 1879-1892)
    4.87%
    13
    Jack Glasscock, SS (1879-1895)
    1.87%
    5
    George Gore, CF (1879-1892)
    3.37%
    9
    Ned Hanlon, CF (1880-1892)
    0.37%
    1
    Guy Hecker, SP/1B (1882-1890)
    0.00%
    0
    Paul Hines, CF (1872-1891)
    4.87%
    13
    Charley Jones, LF (1875-1880, 1883-1888)
    0.37%
    1
    Tim Keefe, SP (1880-1893)
    5.62%
    15
    King Kelly, RF/C (1878-1892)
    5.24%
    14
    Henry Larkin, 1B (1884-1893)
    0.00%
    0
    Jack Manning, RF/SP (1873-1878, 1880-1881, 1883-1886)
    0.00%
    0
    Bobby Mathews, SP (1871-1879, 1881-1887)
    0.37%
    1
    Tommy McCarthy, RF (1884-1896)
    0.37%
    1
    Jim McCormick, SP (1878-1887)
    0.37%
    1
    Cal McVey, C/1B (1871-1879)
    1.50%
    4
    Levi Meyerle, 3B (1871-1877, 1884)
    0.00%
    0
    Doggie Miller, C (1884-1896)
    0.00%
    0
    John Morrill, 1B (1876-1890)
    0.00%
    0
    Ed Morris, SP (1884-1890)
    0.00%
    0
    Tony Mullane, SP (1881-1884, 1886-1894)
    3.37%
    9
    Candy Nelson, SS (1872-1875, 1878-1879, 1881, 1883-1887, 1890)
    0.00%
    0
    Tip O'Neill, LF (1883-1892)
    0.00%
    0
    Jim O'Rourke, LF (1872-1893)
    6.74%
    18
    Dave Orr, 1B (1883-1890)
    0.00%
    0
    John Peters, SS (1874-1884)
    0.00%
    0
    Bill Phillips, 1B (1879-1888)
    0.00%
    0
    Lip Pike, CF (1871-1878, 1881, 1887)
    0.37%
    1
    George Pinkney, 3B (1884-1893)
    0.00%
    0
    Blondie Purcell, OF/SP (1879-1890)
    0.00%
    0
    Charley Radbourn, SP (1881-1891)
    7.12%
    19
    John Reilly, 1B (1880, 1883-1891)
    0.00%
    0
    Hardy Richardson, 2B/LF (1879-1892)
    0.75%
    2
    Yank Robinson, 2B (1882, 1884-1892)
    0.00%
    0
    Jack Rowe, SS/C (1879-1890)
    0.00%
    0
    Orator Shaffer, RF (1874-1875, 1877-1886, 1890)
    0.00%
    0
    Pop Snyder, C (1873-1879, 1881-1891)
    0.00%
    0
    Al Spalding, SP (1871-1877)
    2.25%
    6
    Harry Staley, SP (1888-1895)
    0.00%
    0
    Joe Start, 1B (1871-1886)
    2.62%
    7
    Harry Stovey, LF/1B (1880-1893)
    3.75%
    10
    Ezra Sutton, 3B (1871-1888)
    2.62%
    7
    John Ward, SS/SP (1878-1894)
    4.49%
    12
    Curt Welch, CF (1884-1893)
    0.00%
    0
    Mickey Welch, SP (1880-1892)
    1.87%
    5
    Deacon White, 3B/C (1871-1890)
    4.49%
    12
    Will White, SP (1877-1886)
    0.00%
    0
    Jim Whitney, SP (1881-1890)
    0.00%
    0
    Ned Williamson, 3B (1878-1890)
    0.00%
    0
    Sam Wise, SS/2B (1881-1891, 1893)
    0.00%
    0
    Jimmy Wolf, RF (1882-1892)
    0.00%
    0
    George Wood, LF (1880-1892)
    0.00%
    0
    George Wight, SS (1871-1882)
    3.37%
    9
    Tom York, LF (1871-1885)
    0.00%
    0
    None of the Above (Blank Ballot)
    0.00%
    0

    The poll is expired.

    Last edited by DoubleX; 05-06-2008, 07:48 AM.

  • #2
    My Ballot

    1, John Clarkson
    2. Pud Galvin
    3. Tim Keefe
    4. Charley Radbourn
    5. Mickey Welch
    My dream ballpark dimensions
    LF: 388 Feet...Height 37 Feet...LCF: 455 Feet...CF: 542 Feet...Height 35 Feet
    RCF: 471 Feet...RF: 400 Feet...Height 60 Feet
    Location....San Diego

    Comment


    • #3
      Even with the expanded ballot, I had to make some tought cuts. I voted for:

      Charlie Bennett
      Dan Brouthers
      Pete Browning
      John Clarkson
      Jack Glasscock
      George Gore
      Paul Hines
      Tim Keefe
      King Kelly
      Tony Mullane
      Jim O'Rourke
      Charley Radbourn
      Ezra Sutton
      John Ward
      Deacon White

      Those who just missed the cut:

      Hardy Richardson
      Jim McCormick
      Joe Start
      Fred Dunlap
      Mickey Welch
      Dave Foutz
      Last edited by DoubleX; 05-06-2008, 08:07 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Brouthers, Clarkson, Galvin, Keefe, Mullane, O'Rourke, Radbourn, Spalding, Welch, White

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Brooklyn View Post
          Brouthers, Clarkson, Galvin, Keefe, Mullane, O'Rourke, Radbourn, Spalding, Welch, White
          Brooklyn, you know you can up vote for up to 15 now, right?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Sockeye View Post
            My Ballot

            1, John Clarkson
            2. Pud Galvin
            3. Tim Keefe
            4. Charley Radbourn
            5. Mickey Welch
            5 pitchers and no position players. Why?

            Take a look at Dan Brouthers. He was a tremendous hitter, going .342/.423/.519. Do you realize how good that .519 slugging percentage is? When the pitching distance was increased to 60'6" seven years ago, a large increase in offense resulted. Batting averages increased, OBP increased, and yet Brouthers' .519 slugging percentage is still the highest career mark in major league history (although Lajoie of Philadelphia could exceed it in a few more seasons). He's first in offensive black ink by a large margin, with 79 points. Second place is held by Ross Barnes, with 59 -- 20 points behind Brouthers. Brouthers' OPS+ of 170 is also the highest career mark in the history of base ball.

            Yet, Sockeye, you have omitted Brouthers from your ballot. If Brouthers is not worthy of honor, is it possible for any hitter to ever achieve your standards? Galvin and Welch may be second-tier pitchers from the 1880s, but you still see fit to list them. Is the best eligible batter inferior to a second-tier pitcher? Is Brouthers not worthy of making your list?

            [NOTE: This is the 1901 election. Hence, as far as this entire thread is concerned, I am pretending that is April 1, 1901, and I have no idea what will happen in the upcoming century. If you mention any players from after that date, I will claim not to know who they are, and will say "there's no record of such a player" in my response. Consider yourself warned.]

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by AG2004 View Post
              5 pitchers and no position players. Why?
              Sockeye's votes have a history of being based on cumulative totals of one or two stats, usually HRs or Wins.

              Comment


              • #8
                My Ballot:

                Barnes
                Brouthers
                Clarkson
                Galvin
                Glasscock
                Gore
                Hines
                Keefe
                Kelly
                O'Rourke
                Radbourn
                Start
                Ward
                D.White
                Wright
                Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

                Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by DoubleX View Post
                  Brooklyn, you know you can up vote for up to 15 now, right?
                  yes. pre-1900 guys are tough for me. For the most part, I think most of them didn't play long enough to warrant election, (which may seem contradictory to me voting for Spalding). I have a hard time weighing the conditions of the time, which is essential for the pre-modern era players.

                  I'm a small Hall guy - I'd rather not vote for the guys that I'm not sure on. My game plan was to vote for the guys that I thought definitely belonged. In future elections, I'd like to see who else had support and read about other's campaigns for them, which can very well sway me to vote for more.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Brooklyn View Post
                    yes. pre-1900 guys are tough for me. For the most part, I think most of them didn't play long enough to warrant election, (which may seem contradictory to me voting for Spalding). I have a hard time weighing the conditions of the time, which is essential for the pre-modern era players.

                    I'm a small Hall guy - I'd rather not vote for the guys that I'm not sure on. My game plan was to vote for the guys that I thought definitely belonged. In future elections, I'd like to see who else had support and read about other's campaigns for them, which can very well sway me to vote for more.
                    Fair enough. I saw you voted for 10, and just wanted to make sure that you knew you could vote for more if you wanted to.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Brouthers
                      Caruthers (really not sure about this pick)
                      Clarkson
                      Galvin
                      Gore
                      Hines
                      Keefe
                      Kelly
                      McVey
                      O'Rourke
                      Pike
                      Radbourn
                      Stovey
                      Ward
                      Wright

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by dgarza View Post
                        Sockeye's votes have a history of being based on cumulative totals of one or two stats, usually HRs or Wins.
                        Current leaders in career home runs:

                        1) Roger Connor, 138
                        2) Sam Thompson, 127
                        3) Harry Stovey, 122
                        4) Dan Brouthers, 106
                        4) Mike Tiernan, 106
                        6) Jimmy Ryan, 105
                        7) Hugh Duffy, 104

                        Only six players have managed to hit twenty home runs in a season. Four of them - Williamson, Pfeffer, Dalrymple, and Anson - played for the 1884 Chicago White Stockings. A rule change that year declared that any ball hit over the 196-foot right field fence was a home run. Sam Thompson hit 20 home runs in 1889, and Buck Freeman managed 25 two years ago, in 1899. Freeman went down to six home runs for the 1900 season; his 1899 total was probably a fluke.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Voted for:

                          1. Ross Barnes
                          2. Charlie Bennett
                          3. Dan Brouthers
                          4. Bob Caruthers
                          5. Pud Galvin
                          6. Jack Glasscock
                          7. Paul Hines
                          8. Tim Keefe
                          9. King Kelly
                          10. Tony Mullane
                          11. Jim O'Rourke
                          12. Old Hoss Radbourne
                          13. Hardy Richardson
                          14. Harry Stovey
                          15. Ezra Sutton

                          I'm likely to vote for these guys if they make it to the 1902 ballot:

                          1. John Clarkson--I picked Caruthers over Clarkson because I believe that Clarkson will be elected in this or the next ballot but was more concerned that Caruthers stay on the ballot.
                          2. George Gore
                          3. Lip Pike
                          4. Joe Start
                          5. John Ward
                          6. Deacon White

                          I'm unlikely to vote for:

                          1. Al Spalding--More of a pioneer
                          2. George Wright--More of a pioneer

                          I understand why they are on this ballot, but they really belong more with Dickey Pearce in the pioneer's VC, IMO.
                          Last edited by jjpm74; 05-06-2008, 05:17 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            My ballot:
                            Code:
                            Bennett...	Hines......	Radbourn
                            Brouthers.... 	Keefe......	Start
                            Clarkson...	Kelly.......	Stovey
                            Galvin.....	Mullane....	Ward
                            Gore.......	O'Rourke..	G. Wright
                            Waiting in the wings: Glasscock, Sutton, Richardson (in no particular order)
                            Last edited by jalbright; 05-06-2008, 04:07 PM.
                            Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                            Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                            A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by AG2004 View Post
                              [NOTE: This is the 1901 election. Hence, as far as this entire thread is concerned, I am pretending that is April 1, 1901, and I have no idea what will happen in the upcoming century. If you mention any players from after that date, I will claim not to know who they are, and will say "there's no record of such a player" in my response. Consider yourself warned.]
                              I think this is a good approach. It is hard for us to separate all that we know and use that as a measuring stick for the Hall, but as this project goes, we'll essentially be creating our own standard for the Hall based on who we elect, and that standard should be evolving based on the history to that point. One thing about that though, with professional baseball still in its relative early phases in 1901, our perspective is inherently limited.

                              Comment

                              Ad Widget

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X