Who is the best knuckleball pitcher of all time

[tonypug]

I just watched Tim Wakefield pitch against the Devil Rays. I started wondering who was the best Knuckleball pitcher. Was it Hoyt Wilhelm, Phil or Joe Niekro, or somebody else?

[westsidegrounds]

Wilhelm, career 2.52 ERA, great .... Dutch Leonard*, career W-L 191-181 for mostly stinko teams, great .... Eddie "Knuckles" Cicotte, 29 W one year, 28 another, but not entirely dependable in the post season ... all fine pitchers, but I'm going with a long-time favorite, and the only k-baller to put together four consecutive 20-win seasons ...

* Emil, not Hubert.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Wilhelm, career 2.52 ERA, great .... Dutch Leonard*, career W-L 191-181 for mostly stinko teams, great .... Eddie "Knuckles" Cicotte, 29 W one year, 28 another, but not entirely dependable in the post season ... all fine pitchers, but I'm going with a long-time favorite, and the only k-baller to put together four consecutive 20-win seasons ...

* Emil, not Hubert.

I love his name. It sounds so deadball-ish to me. I can totally see him pitching for the 1906 White Sox...

[SoxSon]

I just watched Bill Wakefield pitch against the Devil Rays. I started wondering who was the best Knuckleball pitcher. Was it Hoyt Wilhelm, Phil or Joe Niekro, or somebody else?

You mean Tim, right?

[Imapotato]

EDDIE ROMMEL


The father of the modern knuckleball, Rommel used it to win 19 games as a starter and another 8 in relief for the 1922 Athletics to lead the AL with 27 wins. He led the league in victories again in 1925 with a 21-10 mark for the A's. He led the AL in relief wins in three different seasons. When the Athletics scored 10 runs in the seventh inning of Game Four of the 1929 WS to overcome an 8-0 Cubs lead, Rommel got the win in relief. In his final season on July 10, 1932, the Athletics defeated the Indians 18-17 in an 18-inning marathon. Rommel pitched 17 innings of relief and earned the win despite giving up 29 hits, 8 walks, and 14 runs. Rommel was a forgotten but important part of the A's success in the 20's and 30's

[tonypug]

You mean Tim, right?

Yes, thanks for the correction.

[westsidegrounds]

[B]

The father of the modern knuckleball, Rommel <...>

Another good 'un! Especially in 1922 when he went 27-13 for a 65-89 team ... sadly, his best years came during some of the Athletics' bad ones - by the time they got good, in the late '20s, he was on his way out. Here's a picture .... hmmmm .... that doesn't look like an A's uniform ....

[tonypug]

Was this the same Ed Rommel who was an american League umpire?

[Bill Burgess]

Yes, it absolutely was the same person.

Bill

[westsidegrounds]

And don't forget Jim "Bulldog" and/or "Bigmouth" Bouton!

... best selling knuckleballer, anyhow ....

[Iron Jaw]

And don't forget Jim "Bulldog" and/or "Bigmouth" Bouton!

... best selling knuckleballer, anyhow ....

Yeah.....but Bouton didn't attempt to develop his knuckleball until he was pretty much washed up - and it never really was all that good. Bouton was a terrific starting pitcher in two of his first three years in the bigs, but he threw regular pitches then. Then, after a couple of sore-armed seasons (1965-66) with the Yanks, he spent a couple of years mostly in the minors before reemerging with the Pilots in 1969, when he started developing his knuckler - and wasn't overly effective. After pitching for Houston in 1970, he called it quits. Until his comback seven years later where he threw nothing but knucklers. I'll never forget him pitching for the Braves in 1978 (heck, the Braves of that time had nothing to lose). He started five games and went 1-3 with a 4.97 ERA. But his lone win was against the NL champion Dodgers. They were ticked. I remember Davey Lopes saying that Bouton had no stuff whatsoever. Hey, probably not, but good enough for a win against Davey, Cey, Garvey and company. He quit again shortly after that.

[westsidegrounds]

<...>his comback seven years later where he threw nothing but knucklers. I'll never forget him pitching for the Braves in 1978 (heck, the Braves of that time had nothing to lose). He started five games and went 1-3 with a 4.97 ERA. But his lone win was against the NL champion Dodgers. They were ticked. I remember Davey Lopes saying that Bouton had no stuff whatsoever. Hey, probably not, but good enough for a win against Davey, Cey, Garvey and company. He quit again shortly after that.

That must have been enough to make it worthwhile ... woulda thought that LA team, from Lasorda on down, represented much of what Bouton despised in baseball...

[.406]

Phil Nikero, though Wakefield is awsome.

I'd have to go: 1. Phil Nikero, 2. Joe Niekro, 3, Hoyt Wihelm, 4. Time Wakefield

[Bluesteve32]

Another good 'un! Especially in 1922 when he went 27-13 for a 65-89 team ... sadly, his best years came during some of the Athletics' bad ones - by the time they got good, in the late '20s, he was on his way out. Here's a picture .... hmmmm .... that doesn't look like an A's uniform ....

Nice pic, but here is a real pic of Field Marshal Bernard Law Montgomery's chief nemesis.

[sschirmer]

Wilhelm, career 2.52 ERA, great .... Dutch Leonard*, career W-L 191-181 for mostly stinko teams, great .... Eddie "Knuckles" Cicotte, 29 W one year, 28 another, but not entirely dependable in the post season ... all fine pitchers, but I'm going with a long-time favorite, and the only k-baller to put together four consecutive 20-win seasons ...

* Emil, not Hubert.

Cicotte would have won 30 in 1919, but cheap ass Comisky held him out of starts so his bonus didn't kick in. I also think he may have been better in the postseason had he not been "on the take".