Abe Attell

[Brian McKenna]

I'm sure you guys have beat this to death somewhere in this forum but I have never fully grasped Abe Attell role from beginning to end in the Black Sox affair. Can someone lead me there?

[westsidegrounds]

Greatest featherweight boxer of all time. Elected to the International Boxing Hall of Fame, 1990.

Ripoff within ripoff, scam upon scam - if you ever do fully grasp his role (or anybody else's) in the fix, I think you'll be the first person to do so!

[EdTarbusz]

Abe Attel may have been Arnold Rothstein's bag-man. I'm trying to get through Gene Carney's book and may have more to say about this later on.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Attell had a very dirty reputation as a fighter, and there is a lot of speculation some of his fights were fixed, including a title fight where the referee actually stopped counting over a prone Attell and helped him get up before the ten count. He did admit he gave it less than his all at times, often so he could land a lucrative rematch. When he was up against the best of the day, he showed he was a very skilled fighter.

I'm anxious to hear what Gene Carney says about him, as well as Ed's take after he finishes. Bill swears by that book.

[The Kid]

"The Little Champ" was a partner of Arnold Rothstien in the Black Sox scandal. He was a dirty crook who on numerous accounts denied the players there money for throwing the games.

[Captain Cold Nose]

"The Little Champ" was a partner of Arnold Rothstien in the Black Sox scandal. He was a dirty crook who on numerous accounts denied the players there money for throwing the games.

Verifiable source?

[Ubiquitous]

From I have read Abe Attell was a gambler/assistant/bodyguard for Rothstein. Several prominent baseball owners had staked Attell wagers at various times.

Now then for the Fix there are a lot of conflicting accounts. One story is that Burns and Maharg approached Attell about the fix and wanted Abe to set up a meeting with Rothstein for them. He does so and AR turns them down. The next day Abe says that AR changed his mind and will front the $100,000. Attell never gives them the $100,000 to give to the players. Instead he ends up giving them $10,000 after I believe game 2. At this moment I should state that we know of two different gambling parties at this time. The Burns-Maharg group headed by Attell and the Sullivan group backed supposedly by AR. The Sullivan group promised 80,000 dollars if the Sox lose the series. The Attell group promised $100,000 and then also decided to pay 20K after each loss. The Attell group was betting on each game while I believe the Sullivan group was simply betting on the series outcome. Attell's group gets wiped out when the players double cross them because they are not paying.

Afterwords Attell is not shy about telling what he knows but he stays just shy enough to be shipped out of the country during the trial.

Now that is one story. Another story is that Attell claims that the fix was decided on in August, which if true means that Attell didn't get in by chance like the above story indicates. This version has some credibility for I believe that one of the minor partners of the Cubs got wind of the fix in August or so while gambling in one of AR's casinos and telegrammed I believe Comiskey or another one of his friends about the fix.

[Brian McKenna]

"The Little Champ" was a partner of Arnold Rothstien in the Black Sox scandal. He was a dirty crook who on numerous accounts denied the players there money for throwing the games.

The qoute sounds like a condemnation of Attell but somehow misses the point that the ballplayers were also crooks here as well. One crook cheating another - how does that raise a fan's ire?

[The Kid]

Verifiable source?

Just look in "Eight Men Out". They describe him in the begining, and he denies the players there money on page 78 and cheats them again on page 91.

[EdTarbusz]

Just look in "Eight Men Out". They describe him in the begining, and he denies the players there money on page 78 and cheats them again on page 91.

Eight Men Out is not a verifiable source. Gene Carney shows that in Burying the Black Sox.

[Brian McKenna]

Eight Men Out is a good story but it molds the pieces together a little too neatly for my taste. Most of his facts aren't documented and I think a little tweaked to keep the story flowing. I don't think things actually tie up that well as Asinof seems to show that they do. Carney's book more accurately highlights the difficulties in understanding the whole story IMO.

[EdTarbusz]

I'm anxious to hear what Gene Carney says about him, as well as Ed's take after he finishes. Bill swears by that book.

I'm still trying to get through Carney's book.

[Captain Cold Nose]

I'm still trying to get through Carney's book.

Mr. Carney has actually been good enough, at Bill's bequest, to stop by on occasion. Nothing guaranteed from that, you know, so I'm anxious to hear your informed take when ready.

[Brian McKenna]

I believe Mr. Carney doesn't monitor Fever anymore. He is available via the Black Sox section of Yahoo groups.

[hellborn]

The bio about Rothstein that I read several months ago had a lot to say about Attell, but I had to return the book and can't review it for details now.
Attell worked for Arnold on and off for a long time. I believe that Abe acted as a go between early in the fix, and actually brought some of the conspirators (gamblers, not ballplayers) to a dinner meeting with Rothstein. Arnold feigned anger and yelled so everybody in the restaurant could hear that he was not interested in trying to fix baseball...this was to provide cover for himself if things blew up, as they did. Rothstein went on to provide a small amount of money through Attell, but instructed the Little Champ to make lots of promises and bets but never really pay the players (SOP for Arnold).
Rothstein found out later that Sport Sullivan (Boston gambler) was also trying to run a similar fix, which made him very happy because it was more likely that the Black Sox would really throw it. Rothstein was conservative and also let people buy out of their bets with him when they heard rumors of a fix...this way, he was guaranteed a payout no matter what happened in the games.
Attell felt sold out by Rothstein after the public blowup, when Arnold denied any involvement in any fix...but, Abe still worked for him in later years, when things calmed down.