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Who holds this record? Did newspapers always track pc? That's the only way a reliable answer is possible.
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RE: All-Time leader in pitches
Cy Young!
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RE: All-Time leader in pitches
...or Satchel Paige.
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RE: All-Time leader in pitches
I'm sure pitch count has not been recorded for very long. But Cy Young has such a big lead in MLB innings pitched, who else could be close?
(1) Cy Young 7377
(2) Walter Johnson 5924
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RE: All-Time leader in pitches
How about Nolan Ryan?
He threw 5386 innings. Plus he has walked the most players ever and struck out the most. So right there he is guaranteed to have thrown at least 28,322 pitches. Plus factor in that he allowed 3923 hits and 158 Hit batsmen and you are up 32,403.
Cy Young threw 7354.7 innings. His bare minimum walk and strike out total is 13,277. With hits and HB the minimum is 20,532.
I'm thinking maybe Nolan Ryan has thrown the most pitches ever in MLB history. Cy Young threw 2000 more innings but the way the game was played back then was different. There was not a lot of strikeouts as there is now and there were slightly less walks per game than now a days. A lot more balls were being put into play back then, plus when players did get on base they ran a lot more than they do nowadays. Consider this the 8 team AL playing a shorter schedule has almost the same amount (and in some cases more) of stolen bases as the newer 14 team AL playing 162 games. So while they were stealing more they were also probably getting caught more which probably decreased his amount of pitches.
Nolan Ryan has the lowest ratio of hits per nine innings in the history of the game, which helps and hurts him. But I think in this case it helps him. For starters he was allowing 4.5 walks per 9 innings which is very high for players plus he averaged plus he was averaging 9.5 strikeouts per nine. Two things that both require a high amount of pitches.
Bottomline is this. Cy Young might be the leader in this category but I would not be surprised at all to see Nolan Ryan at the top of this list.
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RE: All-Time leader in pitches
undoubtly incorrect!
you can find no combination of "expected" number of pitches for ea
catagory that leads you to Ryan!...ie:
IP--5386 x3 = 16158 outs minus 5714 SO = 10444 other outs for Ryan;
.................ave #
outs..10,444 x 3.5 = 36,554
SO.....5,714 x 5.0 = 28,570
BB.....2,795 x 6.0 = 16,770
HBP......158 x 3.5 =....553
Hits...3,923 x 3.5 = 13,730
.......................total= 96,177 Ryan
using same formula.=114,102 Young
If we reduce the expected # of pitches by 0.5 for each catagory the
result is Young 100,847
..........Ryan...84,660
As amatter of fact if we use a formula of one more pitch than needed:
ie: SO = 4 total pitches; BB = 5 total pitches; hits/HBP = 2 pitches,
and all non strike-outs..outs = 2 pitches......
Young...70,337 pitches
Ryan....65,888 pitches
And we know that every out, other than SO, takes more than one pitch!
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RE: All-Time leader in pitches
[updated:LAST EDITED ON Apr-09-02 AT 04:08 AM (EDT)]Your forgetting double plays and caught stealing from your equation so not every out requires a pitch.
Secondly I seriously doubt the ratios would stay the same throughout history. Considering that both walks and Strikeouts are more common nowadays then when Young played.
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RE: All-Time leader in pitches
You are correct about that...however Young had a differance of app 4,429 total pitches using the low figure of + 1 pitch more than
needed, and if that low # was correct it would mean that one in 4.349
non strike-out, outs would have to be a DP or caught stealing. Which equals app 6.2 per 27 outs.
In one sample yr AL 1902 there were 809 DP's in 553 games, for both
teams = 0.73146 per team per game, which would mean there would
have to be app 5.468 caught stealing per game.
In the AL 1902 sample year there were 1315 SB's in the 553 games =
2.3779 per game for both teams = 1.1889692 for each ave team.
In order get the app 5.468 caught-stealings, it would mean that 6.6569
attempts would have to be made, and only 17.86% successful.
Young threw the most pitches.
In consideration of the fact about the pitcher inducing the most DP's
where my Morgan had more than your Glavin or who ever......
................................score... RESEARCHER.. 2
...............................................cub bie............ 0
Please correct me when I make this kind of mistake, I will, and I'll
be keeping score....Your format is what is appreciated the most, more
people should take the time to do it; I respect you for it...if you
could only look at what I do the same way, then review the thing
about History, you may see it a little differant.
Little mistakes can cost you the ballgame!
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RE: All-Time leader in pitches
Here is a formula for you. Take the amount of batters faced by Nolan Ryan and multiply by 4 and see what you get. Then multiply Cy Youngs battter faced by 3 and see what you get.
Why 3 and 4? Because I checked some modern players that have there pitch count tracked and I found that Greg Maddux as average 3.3 pitchs per batter and Bobby Witt has averaged 3.8. Greg Maddux is probably the closest to similarity I could find to Cy Young in the middle of the night and without being paid for it while Bobby Witt is similar to Nolan Ryan in terms of Ratios.
By making this post am I saying Nolan Ryan is the winner and the whole world should believe me? No, I am simply offering a possibility which can be discussed amongst baseball people.
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RE: every out?
"we know that every out, other than SO, takes more than one pitch"
Actually, we know the opposite of this statement. Among outs, every SO always takes more than one pitch. Inclusively, all other types of out can take from zero to a theoretically unlimited number of pitches (tho' generally 31/32 is the accepted outer limit achieved). First pitch outs are not in any way uncommon, alongwith first pitch homers, we have all seen plenty.
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RE: every out?
That was my mis-statement, what I mean is that all senerios in the
long run take more than one pitch on average...every hit isn't on
the first pitch, nor is every pop-up etc.
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RE: All-Time leader in pitches
[updated:LAST EDITED ON Apr-10-02 AT 06:39 PM (EDT)]I'll go one better, I'll give Ryan 5 pitches for every SO & BB, and
your 4 pitches for every other out, AND HIT
While giving Young 5 pitches for SO & BB (he not being a power pitcher
undoubtly needed more pitches to get a SO), and you 3.3 for every HB,
other outs and HITS; and after deducting app DP's for young and having
no adjustment against Ryan for DP's...................................
...............................end result Young still + 4994 pitches
with an unsientific adjustment for Ryan's DP's Young + 7210 pitches
This is giving Ryan all the benefit of the doubt!
.........Young...............Ryan
.........7356......IP........5386
........22068.....outs......16158
........-2803......SO........5714
.........-598....app.DP......-554
........18667...other outs...9890
.........1217......BB........2795
..........163......HB.........158
........ 7092.....HITS.......3923
The hits is what beats your theory, Young pitched to a total of
29,942 batters.....Ryan 22,480 batters (using the app DP's for both)
Using your 3.3 for Young = 29942 x 3.3 = 98,809 pitches
Using your 4.0 for Ryan = 22480 x 4.0 = 89,920 pitches
Your origional thought was good, but Youngs overwhelming # of batters
he faced added the #'s up. The added 6.996 hits that Young gave up
per game over Ryan = 5718 hits x 3.3 = 18870 pitches by your #'s!
...........................SCORE 2-0.....................
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RE: All-Time leader in pitches
It doesn't need to be that complex. Just take the batters faced and multiply by what you think each other average pitches per batter. I used 4 and 3 becuase of similar players who do have pitch counts.
Using Nolan Ryan averaging 4 pitches per batter and Cy Young using 3 I get Nolan Ryan slight ahead of Cy Young. In fact according to your batters faced info Nolan comes out with 94 extra pitches thrown. Does that mean I think Nolan threw more? No, but I think we will find if we ever find the whole truth that Nolan is probably comparable to Cy Young in pitches thrown.
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RE: All-Time leader in pitches
[updated:LAST EDITED ON Apr-11-02 AT 02:09 AM (EDT)]But we exercised our brains, and further developed our advanced way
to come to various conclusions; we are fortunate to be able to give
the time too it!
Now if I will only devote the time, to break down the Lajoie era,
to finally convince myself of the differance if any between Lajoie
and Hornsby.
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RE: All-Time leader in pitches
Your correct it didn't need to be that complex; using your #'s =
Young 29942 x 3.3 (not 3.0) = 98,086
Ryan. 22480 x 3.8 (not 4.0) = 85,424
It would be nice if we could drop or add decimal points as needed.
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