No announcement yet.

Campanella or Fisk?

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Campanella or Fisk?

    I posted this on another thread.....

    Campanella over Fisk is not a good choice either.....I'd take Fisk. Fisk lasted much, much longer (I don't give Campy credit for his accident). Fisk's peak also wasn't really far behind. His 1972, 1975, and 1977 are just as good if not better with league quality adjustments than Campanella's 1951, 1953, and 1955. Look at their top 3 Win Share seasons:

    Fisk-33, 31, 30
    Campanella-33, 33, 28

    How can you choose Campanella when A) He played much longer, and B) HIs peak is not any better (Fisk's peak is better with league quality adjustments)? You can't.

    Plus, Campy was wildly inconsistent. We don't have to look past the batting averages to see that. Look at his averages-.325, .269, .312, .207, .318, .219, .242. What do you want, Fisk, who's solid all the time and great sometimes, or Campy, who's great sometimes but horrible at other times?

    You may be thinking about how Campy was segregated from the majors a few years, and we can give him credit for that. Well, Campy played in the Negro Leagues from 1937-1945, nine years, which is a significant chunk. However, he was a backup until 1941, when he finally became a starter. By all accounts, he was very good until he left the Negro Leagues in 1945. But, I feel it is unrealistic to assume he was any better in those Negro League years than he was in his first MLB year in 1948, when he was a below average hitter. He receives some Negro League credit, but not all that much. Fisk still was around for much longer and stayed at a high level of performance longer, and his peak was just as good.

    Fisk is a better player than Campanella, I don't consider Campy to be particularly close either.

    So, who do you think is better, Campanella, or Fisk?
    Roy Campanella
    Carlton Fisk

  • #2
    I would think Fisk is. Isn't it ironic that Campy had that accident right when the Dodgers were moving to LA? He never played one game there


    • #3
      --I think Campanella was clearly better at his peak, but Fisk was just as clearly more valuable for his career. I would agree that Fisk played in a better league, but wouldn't say it was a huge difference. It may or may not have been big enough to make up the difference between Campy's 154 or Fisk's 162 game seasons in the Win Shares comparison. Also, while Campy was inconsistent from season to season, Fisk had some big variations in value too - mostly due to injuries as is true of most catchers. His top 3 seasons were spread MUCH further apart than Campanella's (Fisk has the biggest gap between 150 OPS+ season of any catcher with more than one).
      --You are also a little too quick to dismiss the Negro League years of Campy's career. He was a backup because he broke in at 16 behind Negro League legend Biz Mackey. His performance in his rookie year in MLB baseball does not neccessarily reflect his quality in the preceding seasons. Most player struggle when moving up in class, be it from A to AA or AAA to the majors. Campy was facing a level of competition he hadn't seen before and that it took him a year to adjust shouldn't be taken as a clear indicator that he wasn't a top catcher before.
      --In the end I agree that Fisk was slightly more valuable than Campanella. Not better maybe, but more valuable.


      • #4
        i think leecemark has it pegged- fisk for career, campanella for peak.


        • #5
          Fisk by a lot. Even if Campy played the whole career he would not have surpassed Fisk.
          "I don't like to sound egotistical, but every time I stepped up to the plate with a bat in my hands, I couldn't help but feel sorry for the pitcher."
          -Rogers Hornsby-

          "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
          -Rogers Hornsby-

          Just a note to all the active members of BBF, I consider all of you the smartest baseball people I have ever communicated with and love everyday I am on here. Thank you all!


          • #6
            Originally posted by Cubsfan97
            Fisk by a lot. Even if Campy played the whole career he would not have surpassed Fisk.
            way off in that assessment

            how many mvps does fisk have? campy had three - i think that means he was the best player in the league three times not just the best catcher.

            campy didn't reach the major because of something i forget what until he was 26.

            fisk had a longer major league career - that's true.


            • #7
              I think Campy was better at his peak, even though he had those .207 and .219 seasons in the middle of it. My dad saw him play a lot and to this day he thinks Campy and Bench were basically equals at their peak. I think Bench was better, but even he had a couple of off years in the early 70's.

              Fisk was probably more valuable because of his career productivity. Campy is certainly the hardest C for me to rank - I've relied more on opinions for him because of the time spent in the Negro Leagues, and since most of the opinions are so glowing, I've always had him ahead of Fisk. I'll probably re-evaluate my rankings soon.


              • #8
                ya I'd have to go with Campanella
                Born True Blue


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ElCaminoSS
                  ya I'd have to go with Campanella
                  Why? Just stating your opinion without any reasons doesn't do any good, especially considering this thread was led off with a post that disagrees with your opinion. Could you please share with us your reasoning, or at least tell us why you disagree with the opening post?


                  • #10
                    Campy had been buried in the Negro Leagues for like a decade before he ever got his shot. His peak is higher and more valuable.

                    The original Pudge was just a really good player who played forever.

                    To me it makes about as much sense as ranking Phil Niekro higher then Koufax.
                    "If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking"

                    Gen. Patton


                    • #11
                      Roy was voted best player in his league 3 times

                      Fisk never had an MVP once


                      • #12
                        Tough to really say,since Campanella started so late and had that accident.

                        But his peak was ,far and away,better.

                        Fisk played long,but wasn't as good as Campy.

                        I think pretorious said it's like ranking Phil Neikro higher than Koufax.


                        • #13
                          OPS+ comparison of Campanella's career and Fisk at the same age.

                          Age	Campanella	Fisk
                          26	102		159
                          27	131		150
                          28	135		109
                          29	159		139
                          30	121		126
                          31	155		96
                          32	75		119
                          33	153		109
                          34	89		103
                          35	81		134
                          Last edited by AstrosFan; 08-17-2006, 09:25 PM.
                          "Any pitcher who throws at a batter and deliberately tries to hit him is a communist."

                          - Alvin Dark


                          • #14
                            I think what it shows is that Campanella's peak isn't that much better, and he was showing a sharp decline. Fisk had several good seasons left in him. The analogy of Fisk/Campanella to Niekro/Koufax isn't a very good one. Fisk's career performance could be the greatest ever by a catcher. You can't say that about Niekro among pitchers.
                            "Any pitcher who throws at a batter and deliberately tries to hit him is a communist."

                            - Alvin Dark


                            • #15
                              For one game or season or 5 year run, or even decade, I'd rather have Campanella on my team than Fisk. Fisk had the better and longer career, but Campanella was pound for pound, the better player, IMO.


                              Ad Widget