Who is the best defensive player of All-Time?

[Roy Hobbs]

Originally posted by RuthMayBond
He might be slightly overrated, just not as much as Mantle is overrated

I don't think Mantle is overrated unless you're saying people rate him highly defensively.

He was fine at CF but I don't know anyone that says he was better than Mays.

Offensively you really can't overrate Mickey Mantle or Willie Mays since offensively they are the amongst the top 5 we've ever seen.

[RuthMayBond]

Originally posted by Roy Hobbs
I don't think Mantle is overrated unless you're saying people rate him highly defensively.
He was fine at CF but I don't know anyone that says he was better than Mays.

RMB:
No one's saying that but I've heard people say he was good

Offensively you really can't overrate Mickey Mantle or Willie Mays since offensively they are the amongst the top 5 we've ever seen.

RMB:
We're not talking offensively

[ElHalo]

No one's saying that but I've heard people say he was good

You're saying Mantle wasn't even a good center fielder? How do you support that? Obviously his numbers aren't Speakeresque, but he was solidly above average basically through the early 60's.

[RuthMayBond]

Sorry for the miswording. He was good but I'm not sure if ever deserved one Gold Glove.

[julusnc]

Garry Maddox was always the player that astonished me with his ability in the outfield.


Brooks Robinson and Mark Belanger were a awesome combo for a very long time.

[Iron Jaw]

How many remember the slick fielding Paul Blair in centerfield? He played shallow and was still able to make the plays off the wall.

[RuthMayBond]

BASEBALL_TRIVIA_NUT

For anyone in this thread who did not
answer the clarification with Brooks Robinson
just could not have seen him play!

I saw the man for his entire career and
when he amazed the country with his play
against the Big Red Machine in the World Series
and everyone raved about how miraculous the
plays were, the Baltimore fans just didn't have the
heart to tell baseball fans the world over that the
plays Brooks pulled off were "pieces of cake" and
laughable to the the nth degree!!!!

I hate to tell the world now, but I'm the only
person who would tell you - they were ROUTINE!!!
For Brooks, those plays were so easy, I kept waiting
for guffaws from every Orioles fan, but, to spare
feelings, the fans were silent, hoping that another
play would happen that no one but Brooks could
pull off, but, it didn't happen, and every one remained
silent!

If you ever see the tape, trust me, Brooks did
that with his eyes closed, just from the routine!
He was so great defensively, anything hit to the left
side of the infield was doomed!!!

I've seen all the great defensive players in the
last 50 years and not one is even close to Brooks!
Not Ozzie, not Rey with the Mets, not Mays, not
Schmidt, not Boyer, not Aparicio, no one!!!

Do yourself a favor and look at tapes of
Brooks and you won't believe your own eyes - he
was the greatest at defense and that's period!
As a matter of fact, two periods!!!

No one's denying he made individual spectacular plays or that he was among the very best, but if his range was THAT great, he would have blown everyone away in PO, A & fielding range. The truth is, Brooksie was only CLEARLY the best fielding 3B in 1960 and then not again until '67!, again in '68, and probably NOT in '70 (that's as far as I got). There are several years where he very well might have been the best but not CLEARLY so.

[ElHalo]

Now that somebody else has brought up Derek Jeter... yes, I know, his defensive stats are terrible. Yes, I know, ARod should be playing SS.

But wait; no he shouldn't. ESPN said it best in an article last year about the most enjoyable players to watch at each position: That jumping spinning throw Jeter does to first while his legs are spread three feet off the ground is the most aesthetically pleasing play in baseball. Possibly, I'd argue, in all of sports (at least since Barry Sanders retired). I've never seen anything remotely that beuatiful while watching a baseball game. I'll take all the subpar range ractors and defensive win shares you can throw at me, as long as I get to watch Jeter making that play.

Now back to the discussion.

[tydie12]

This is my line up.

1B. Palmero
2B. Brett Boone
SS. Ozzie Smith, maybe Derek Jeter
3B. I may sound crazy but Aaron Boone, he comes when he needs to and is in the top 3 for best defensive third basemen in the last 10 years at least. A-rod might be my choice in the future
P. Roger Clemens, Whitey Ford
C. Ivan rodrigez(pudge)
RF. Sammy slammin Sosa, three seasons over 60 homeruns!, unbelievable
CF. Willy Mays
LF.

[RuthMayBond]

P: Greg Maddux
C: Johnny Bench
1B: Kieth Hernandez
2B: Bill Mazeroski
3B: Brooks Robinson
SS: Ozzie Smith
OF: Tris Speaker
OF: Willie Mays
OF: Mike Cameron
---There are 100 CF better than the best corner OF ever.
I'll go with Smith as best ever for the same reason I picked 3 CF and no RF or LF. An average SS has more defensive value than the best 3B who ever lived. If Brooks could have played SS, he would have played SS. For the Ichiro fan - he was not the best defensive OFer on his team until Cameron left this year. I've seen about 85% of his games and he hasn't been anywhere near as good as Cameron. I would like to see him in center now though to see what he could do.

Wow, yours is REAL close to my list.
By the time all is said and done, IRod will probably pass Bench/Berra/Schalk.
It's close between McPhee & Maz.
And get Cameron out of there. Maybe Andruw Jones by the time it's done?

[ElHalo]

And get Cameron out of there. Maybe Andruw Jones by the time it's done?

What is this "by the time he's done" stuff? Do you expect him to start suddenly getting to balls that he let drop in front of him before? Isn't a player usually as good as they're going to get at defense by their late 20's? Or is it like pitching, where they can continue to learn new things and get better into their 30's?

[RuthMayBond]

What is this "by the time he's done" stuff? Do you expect him to start suddenly getting to balls that he let drop in front of him before? Isn't a player usually as good as they're going to get at defense by their late 20's? Or is it like pitching, where they can continue to learn new things and get better into their 30's?

I was referring to, if Andruw dies young or develops fielding problems, he might not have the longevity of Speaker, etc.

[538280]

But, if you want to choose a Yankee for best defenseman at third, you couldn't go wrong with Clete Boyer (I'm Boyer biased - Ken Boyer was my favorite player when I was a kid - and he wasn't bad defensively or offensively).

How can you discuss great defensive Yankee third basemen without mentioning Graig Nettles? Nettles was very fast with extremely quick hands, and I've heard some people say he was almost as good as Brooks Robinson. Nettles put on an amazing show of defensive wizardry in the 1978 World Series, and if it wasn't for his fielding and Reggie Jackson's hitting, the Yankees wouldn't have beaten the Dodgers in '78.

My defensive All-Time Team:

C-Biz Mackey
1B-Hal Chase
2B-Bill Mazeroski
3B-Brooks Robinson
SS-Ozzie Smith
OF-Oscar Charleston
OF-Willie Mays
OF-Andruw Jones

Yes, I think Andruw is just as good defensively as Oscar and Willie. I see him on TV, and he is just amazing. He gets to balls easily that others can't even come close to making.

[ElHalo]

I was referring to, if Andruw dies young or develops fielding problems, he might not have the longevity of Speaker, etc.

Oh, well, ok then I guess. But longevity doesn't really make a person better.

[falbi23]

Izturiz

cesar izturiz is the best defensive player ever to play