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John Olerud or Mark Grace?

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  • John Olerud or Mark Grace?

    Since it appears that John Olerud is retiring, I wanted to compare him to another very solid and probably underated first baseman of the last 15 years - Mark Grace. Who was better? Some potentially relevant stats:

    OPS+
    Olerud: 129
    Grace: 119

    162 Game Triple Crown Averages
    Olerud: .295, 18, 89
    Grace: .303, 12, 83

    Career Hits Triple Crown Numbers
    Olerud: 2239, 255, 1230 (in 7592 AB)
    Grace: 2445, 173, 1146 (in 8065 AB)

    Gold Gloves
    Olerud: 3
    Grace: 4

    All-Star Appearances
    Olerud: 2
    Grace: 3

    Other
    Olerud: 1 Batting Title and 1 2nd Place Finish; 1 OPS Title; 1 Top 3 MVP Finish
    Grace: Most Hits and Doubles for all players during 90s; 8 Times in Top 10 in Batting
    61
    John Olerud was signifacantly better than Mark Grace
    19.67%
    12
    Mark Grace was signifcantly better than John Olerud
    9.84%
    6
    Both were even
    4.92%
    3
    John Olerud was slightly better than Mark Grace
    49.18%
    30
    Mark Grace was slightly better than John Olerud
    16.39%
    10

  • #2
    That's a tough call, but from me, Grace gets the Cubbie nod.

    Comment


    • #3
      Close call, but the edge to Olerud. 10 OPS+ points is a fair amount
      Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
      Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

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      • #4
        I give the edge to Grace. I was never a fan of his while he played because he came off as a pretty boy that loved the camera too much. But in retrospect he played the game right and had he not played in the steroid era his stats would look better. He reminded me a lot of Bill Buckner as a hitter.

        After he had that one big year everone thought Olerud was the 2nd coming of Ted Williams. He never came close to reaching that level but he was a solid hitter. This is a close call but I think Grace was a little better defensively and maybe a better clutch hitter.
        "Batting slumps? I never had one. When a guy hits .358, he doesn't have slumps."

        Rogers Hornsby, 1961

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        • #5
          In keeping with the alternating pattern, chalk me up for Olerud.

          Even with the deduction for wearing a helmet while playing defense.
          THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT COME WITH A SCORECARD

          In the avy: AZ - Doe or Die

          Comment


          • #6
            I would go with John Olerud, and it might not even be Marks fault that he gets second. For most of his career he was used wrong in the lineup. He is not a #3 or #4 hitter yet the Cubs kept putting him out there as one. Olerud was used in much the same way save that he ended up being a #5 hitter mostly and when he did play #3 he didn't do too bad at it. As a Met his #3 numbers were actually quite good. John to me was the better defender had the same batting average (once you factor in stadium), had more power despite playing in power suppressing stadiums, and had more patience at the plate. Add them all up and he was very good player and for me one that is clearly better then Mark Grace.

            I always thought it was a shame Mark Grace was left-handed, I always felt that had he been a third basemen he probably would have had a shot at the HOF. But because he could only first base his shot at the hall went up in smoke with that defensive choice.

            Comment


            • #7
              I go with Olerud.
              Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

              Comment


              • #8
                Olerud by a decent margin. They are almost exact contemporaries and Olerud has a solid advantage in OPS+, OWP, and RCAA.
                Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

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                • #9
                  I think that a healthy Olerud was a much better player than Grace. Grace's only real advantage is durability, which makes up a lot of the difference because Olerud had a lot of trouble staying in the lineup. Without his injury troubles, Olerud would have made the Hall of Fame easily.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by abacab
                    I think that a healthy Olerud was a much better player than Grace. Grace's only real advantage is durability, which makes up a lot of the difference because Olerud had a lot of trouble staying in the lineup.
                    I guess, although Olerud's only 230 PA behind, and closing
                    Last edited by RuthMayBond; 12-07-2005, 10:14 AM.
                    Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                    Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by RuthMayBond
                      I guess, although Olerud's only 230 PA behind, and closing
                      Closed, for some intents and purposes. He's at least told te BoSox he's retiring, but I don't think it's official yet.
                      Dave Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
                      Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
                      Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
                      Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
                      Robin Bill Ernie JEDI

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by digglahhh
                        Even with the deduction for wearing a helmet while playing defense.
                        Deduction? Ain't he allowed to protect himself?
                        Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                        Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by digglahhh
                          In keeping with the alternating pattern, chalk me up for Olerud.

                          Even with the deduction for wearing a helmet while playing defense.
                          Why is that a deduction?
                          Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I really don't think digglahhh was serious.
                            Dave Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
                            Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
                            Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
                            Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
                            Robin Bill Ernie JEDI

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Um.... I'm going to go with Grace, I think. Close call for me. Maybe Grace's def. puts him over the top for me. Olerud had some uncharacteristcally high years that help him out.

                              Comment

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